Logocentrism

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I’m currently a masters student in Medieval Studies at Columbia University. I recently begged my way into a Medieval Animals class, thinking it would cover things like falconry, hunting dogs, knights’ horses, and things of that sort, or else the symbolic significance attached to real animals like lions and stags and imaginary ones like unicorns and griffins. Unfortunately, I have discovered that the class has a strong political bent to it. Specifically, my professor and fellow students are highly critical of medieval peoples’ “logocentrism,” a term I’ve never heard before. Apparently “logocentrism” is the belief that the possession of language puts humans in a superior plane than animals. My class seems skeptical that humans should be “privileged” over animals. They seem scandalized by medieval attention to the story of Adam naming the animals–a story I always thought of as rather sweet–and the idea that man has dominion over animals. I’ve been completely silent through the first few classes because, to be honest, I’m flabbergasted. What they call “logocentrism,” I’ve always thought of as basic common sense. Has anyone else heard the term “logocentrism” before? Am I misunderstanding something here? If I’m not, how can I argue for something that should be self-evident, like the essential distinction between humans and animals? This argument seems to me to be crazier than the medieval belief in werwolves–at least medievals realized that blurring the lines between man and wolf was a bad thing for the man!
 
I’m currently a masters student in Medieval Studies at Columbia University.
I’m saddened but not surprised about what you found there.
What they call “logocentrism,” I’ve always thought of as basic common sense.
You’re right - that’s exactly what it is. It takes a certain level of insanity and ignorance to deny it. Welcome to academia.
Has anyone else heard the term “logocentrism” before?
I have never heard of it before.
Am I misunderstanding something here?
Not that I can see. You’re trying to make sense of a twisted, contradictory and illusory worldview and thus you are justly confused.
If I’m not, how can I argue for something that should be self-evident, like the essential distinction between humans and animals?
You really can’t. It’s like trying to reason with a drug addict or with someone who is suffering from hallucinations.
This argument seems to me to be crazier than the medieval belief in werwolves–at least medievals realized that blurring the lines between man and wolf was a bad thing for the man!
Great point. Medievals believed in reality, and that our loving, wise and brilliant God had created it - for a reason and with meaning. Today’s atheistic, post-modernists deny the foundation of rational thought, and are thus promote inhuman, nonsensical and evil ideas as “enlightenment”.

As for arguing your position – instead of opening up a full-scale war (which would happen if you question their core values), I would suggest some highly-strategic interventions. You have to use their language and find the contradictions. Don’t assume that they have any common sense at all. The problem is, you have to think like them in order to communicate through the maze of their warped consciousness. Usually, we discover it’s not worth it (unless you get a perfect chance handed to you on a platter).
It’s only a semester’s course. Try to extract whatever good you can out of it. Take notes about how insane they are. These are the people who shape youth and end up running the government. It’s important to know what they’re all about.

As for changing them – you’re a lone voice in a mob. Try to find some friendly support if possible. It might be very difficult to find another person who can understand that there is a profound difference between man and animal. Yes, it is that bad.
 
you should read the opening 100pgs of Derrida’s On Grammatology to get a sense of what the critique of Logocentrism is about.

I have no idea how the term is being used or abused in your class in particular, but it is, nowadays, a critique of the idea that somehow there are such things as ideas that are separate from/independent of/ behind “language”. In other words, it is part of the turn to language that characterized contemporary philosophy and linguistics, whether Continental or Anglo, in the 20th century. Tied to this, it criticizes the idea that Reason can be reconciled back to a completely rational and ultimately self-transparent origin which would be unified and completely coherent. Instead Reason is characterized by mediations, the deferral of meaning and aporia.

In this sense it is often a critique of Platonic and Aristotelean realism with regards to static, eternal ideas or the forms (which many Medievals would have held in some manner…and would have held that they resided in the Logos), but also would be a criticism of other modern philosophers like Husserl (on whom Derrida wrote his dissertation).
 
you should read the opening 100pgs of Derrida’s On Grammatology to get a sense of what the critique of Logocentrism is about.
Even the first 10 pages of Grammatology are quite a task … Derrida’s critique (?) of logocentrism has a wide swath … the object of attack is that there is one clear and distinct structure with a clear and distinct center … a center that controls everything … a full Presence without any Absences … available to human consciousness and completely subject to human willMan the Measure of All Things … i.e., Totalitarianism …

Note what I bolded … the logocentric is the anthropocentric … God is not necessarily displaced …

Derrida himself would of course demur … if he were still here …
 
I’m currently a masters student in Medieval Studies at Columbia University. I recently begged my way into a Medieval Animals class, thinking it would cover things like falconry, hunting dogs, knights’ horses, and things of that sort, or else the symbolic significance attached to real animals like lions and stags and imaginary ones like unicorns and griffins. Unfortunately, I have discovered that the class has a strong political bent to it. Specifically, my professor and fellow students are highly critical of medieval peoples’ “logocentrism,” a term I’ve never heard before. Apparently “logocentrism” is the belief that the possession of language puts humans in a superior plane than animals. My class seems skeptical that humans should be “privileged” over animals. They seem scandalized by medieval attention to the story of Adam naming the animals–a story I always thought of as rather sweet–and the idea that man has dominion over animals. I’ve been completely silent through the first few classes because, to be honest, I’m flabbergasted. What they call “logocentrism,” I’ve always thought of as basic common sense. Has anyone else heard the term “logocentrism” before? Am I misunderstanding something here? If I’m not, how can I argue for something that should be self-evident, like the essential distinction between humans and animals? This argument seems to me to be crazier than the medieval belief in werwolves–at least medievals realized that blurring the lines between man and wolf was a bad thing for the man!
Heres what I would say. If any one of you needed open-heart surgery who would you rather have perform it, a trained heart surgeon or his equally talented lion cousin?
 
. . . Specifically, my professor and fellow students are highly critical of medieval peoples’ “logocentrism,” a term I’ve never heard before. Apparently “logocentrism” is the belief that the possession of language puts humans in a superior plane than animals. . . .
Obviously, this professor needs to invite more animals to his classroom. No need to be human-centric when it comes to education.
 
Obviously, this professor needs to invite more animals to his classroom. No need to be human-centric when it comes to education.
Maybe they should teach the course? Who is that professor to think he is better then the animals? And why is it only humans ever win the Nobel proze? Its a clear sign of animalphobic humans attempting to oppress the freedoms of animals.
 
Maybe they should teach the course? Who is that professor to think he is better then the animals? And why is it only humans ever win the Nobel proze? Its a clear sign of animalphobic humans attempting to oppress the freedoms of animals.
The “animal” is very much a mystery to the human. We are unable to fully understand the thoughts of animals. An animal teaching a course is actually an interesting idea. Of course, animals as we know them, are unable to speak our language, so I’m not sure how this would happen. It is not just our education systems, but our entire society which is oppressive to animals. Of course, many animals make excellent food.
 
I try to be as oppressive as possible to neighborhood termites and other assorted bugs. Not that they don’t have their good qualities, just not around me, please.

Of course, after reading “Ender’s Game,” I got perhaps a glimmer of sympathy for the bugs. Still, if it had been me, I would have quashed the Queen in the end.
 
The “animal” is very much a mystery to the human. We are unable to fully understand the thoughts of animals. An animal teaching a course is actually an interesting idea. Of course, animals as we know them, are unable to speak our language, so I’m not sure how this would happen. It is not just our education systems, but our entire society which is oppressive to animals. Of course, many animals make excellent food.
We cant speak THEIR language so we must be the ignorant ones. I just wish we could allow animals to achievie their full potential. I want a heart surgeon who is a penguin!!! Oh wait no thumbs
 
We can’t speak their language so I guess we’ll never be able to read the Dolphin equivalent of the Summa or a tightly reasoned dolphin assessment of human civilization.

In the military I had a friend who kept insisting that the dolphins had their own highly evolved civilization which was in every way equal to human civilization. I told him I’d think about it when a dolphin made the case to me, not him.
 
I’m currently a masters student in Medieval Studies at Columbia University. I recently begged my way into a Medieval Animals class, thinking it would cover things like falconry, hunting dogs, knights’ horses, and things of that sort, or else the symbolic significance attached to real animals like lions and stags and imaginary ones like unicorns and griffins. Unfortunately, I have discovered that the class has a strong political bent to it. Specifically, my professor and fellow students are highly critical of medieval peoples’ “logocentrism,” a term I’ve never heard before. Apparently “logocentrism” is the belief that the possession of language puts humans in a superior plane than animals. My class seems skeptical that humans should be “privileged” over animals. They seem scandalized by medieval attention to the story of Adam naming the animals–a story I always thought of as rather sweet–and the idea that man has dominion over animals. I’ve been completely silent through the first few classes because, to be honest, I’m flabbergasted. What they call “logocentrism,” I’ve always thought of as basic common sense. Has anyone else heard the term “logocentrism” before? Am I misunderstanding something here? If I’m not, how can I argue for something that should be self-evident, like the essential distinction between humans and animals? This argument seems to me to be crazier than the medieval belief in werwolves–at least medievals realized that blurring the lines between man and wolf was a bad thing for the man!
Common sense has become so common now as a kind of mantra that even those using forget what it signifies. “Common” is right there in the term! If you are going to rely on just “common sense” or common sense over rigorous knowledge and educated conjecture, you have no reason to blowing your hard-earned money down a hole at an institution of higher learning.

That is why it’s called “higher learning”, because it aims at something “higher” than the vulgarity of common sense.

Before science, it was “common sense” to think the world was flat. It turns out that a “flat earth” actually is a pretty effective first-order approximation of the reality of our world, for most common and practical senses. Flat earthers way back when weren’t stupid, they were just ignorant, and did not have the benefit of tools and methods that freed them from the ignorance of “common sense” to have a deeper, more performative approximation of the world around them. Someone a thousand years ago may have been “flabbergasted” to learn that the world is really roughly spherical, or that the earth goes around the sun, rather than the other way around, which is what “common sense” told the masses.

On logocentrism, yeah, per science, it does indeed look like a conceit humans love to indulge. No animal can approach human levels of sophistication in terms of grammar, syntax, semantics or meta-representation, so far as we know. But while humans are clear and away the “world champs” of language, and linguistic thinking, the scientific discovery of the past century or so makes our language skills exceptional, but only as a matter of degree, and not of kind.

If you go check out what science has learned about the proto-linguistic capabilities of animals, you will see what is seen on so many levels regarding man and animals – a continuum. The modern snail doesn’t give much sign of even rudimentary linguistic capabilities, never mind meta-representational cognition. But the orangatan, the bonobo, the chimpanzee and the gorilla, there you have species that show not just “use” of language in a pragmatic way (do the requested trick, get a cookie!), but grasp of meaning and sentence semantics. Cruder forms of linguistic process in the way humans do, that is.

And given the nearness to us of those primates on the species graph, the “tree of life”, we understand ourselves to be quite amazing with language (and we are very proud, indeed!), but even so, a “branch that sticks out” on that feature from this tree of life, which has the evolved rudiments of grammar and streams of lexemes clustered all around the species closest to us.

In any case, I wouldn’t worry about logocentrism, or any other “-ism” if you are hung up on “common sense”, here. You’re at a university or college now. Real knowledge awaits, and clinging to “common sense” for it’s own sake is just defeating the purpose of being there in the first place.

-TS
 
The “animal” is very much a mystery to the human. We are unable to fully understand the thoughts of animals. An animal teaching a course is actually an interesting idea. Of course, animals as we know them, are unable to speak our language, so I’m not sure how this would happen. It is not just our education systems, but our entire society which is oppressive to animals. Of course, many animals make excellent food.
Sky:

Perhaps they could just have people watch the mommy lion, just as her cubs do, chase down a defenseless Gazelle, puncture its neck with her fangs, and her it down so that the rest of the pride could start eating it while it was still alive, oops!, I mean fresh.

God bless,
jd
 
Common sense has become so common now as a kind of mantra that even those using forget what it signifies. “Common” is right there in the term! If you are going to rely on just “common sense” or common sense over rigorous knowledge and educated conjecture, you have no reason to blowing your hard-earned money down a hole at an institution of higher learning.

That is why it’s called “higher learning”, because it aims at something “higher” than the vulgarity of common sense.

Before science, it was “common sense” to think the world was flat. It turns out that a “flat earth” actually is a pretty effective first-order approximation of the reality of our world, for most common and practical senses. Flat earthers way back when weren’t stupid, they were just ignorant, and did not have the benefit of tools and methods that freed them from the ignorance of “common sense” to have a deeper, more performative approximation of the world around them. Someone a thousand years ago may have been “flabbergasted” to learn that the world is really roughly spherical, or that the earth goes around the sun, rather than the other way around, which is what “common sense” told the masses.

On logocentrism, yeah, per science, it does indeed look like a conceit humans love to indulge. No animal can approach human levels of sophistication in terms of grammar, syntax, semantics or meta-representation, so far as we know. But while humans are clear and away the “world champs” of language, and linguistic thinking, the scientific discovery of the past century or so makes our language skills exceptional, but only as a matter of degree, and not of kind.

If you go check out what science has learned about the proto-linguistic capabilities of animals, you will see what is seen on so many levels regarding man and animals – a continuum. The modern snail doesn’t give much sign of even rudimentary linguistic capabilities, never mind meta-representational cognition. But the orangatan, the bonobo, the chimpanzee and the gorilla, there you have species that show not just “use” of language in a pragmatic way (do the requested trick, get a cookie!), but grasp of meaning and sentence semantics. Cruder forms of linguistic process in the way humans do, that is.

And given the nearness to us of those primates on the species graph, the “tree of life”, we understand ourselves to be quite amazing with language (and we are very proud, indeed!), but even so, a “branch that sticks out” on that feature from this tree of life, which has the evolved rudiments of grammar and streams of lexemes clustered all around the species closest to us.

In any case, I wouldn’t worry about logocentrism, or any other “-ism” if you are hung up on “common sense”, here. You’re at a university or college now. Real knowledge awaits, and clinging to “common sense” for it’s own sake is just defeating the purpose of being there in the first place.

-TS
TS:

My dear friend, as I was savoring that last morsel of rare porterhouse, I rather enjoyed your rendered-into-written-logos summary. 🙂

God bless,
jd
 
TS:

My dear friend, as I was savoring that last morsel of rare porterhouse, I rather enjoyed your rendered-into-written-logos summary. 🙂

God bless,
jd
'Twas nothing. A monkey could do it.

And did. 🙂

-TS
 
We can’t speak their language so I guess we’ll never be able to read the Dolphin equivalent of the Summa or a tightly reasoned dolphin assessment of human civilization.

In the military I had a friend who kept insisting that the dolphins had their own highly evolved civilization which was in every way equal to human civilization. I told him I’d think about it when a dolphin made the case to me, not him.
LOL that is HILARIOUS
 
Common sense has become so common now as a kind of mantra that even those using forget what it signifies. “Common” is right there in the term! If you are going to rely on just “common sense” or common sense over rigorous knowledge and educated conjecture, you have no reason to blowing your hard-earned money down a hole at an institution of higher learning.
I agree with that, though I think there’s a place for common sense.
Before science, it was “common sense” to think the world was flat.
When was this? Please don’t tell me that medieval people thought the world was flat, because they didn’t (at least, most intellectuals didn’t).

The real problem with “common sense” (and here perhaps I’m showing my own postmodern colors!) is that it is essentially those things that people within a certain culture or subculture take for granted. Hence, you take for granted that you can use “flat earth” as a cliche for “dumb things that smart people once believed.”
If you go check out what science has learned about the proto-linguistic capabilities of animals, you will see what is seen on so many levels regarding man and animals – a continuum. The modern snail doesn’t give much sign of even rudimentary linguistic capabilities, never mind meta-representational cognition. But the orangatan, the bonobo, the chimpanzee and the gorilla, there you have species that show not just “use” of language in a pragmatic way (do the requested trick, get a cookie!), but grasp of meaning and sentence semantics. Cruder forms of linguistic process in the way humans do, that is.
This is a point I’d like to see addressed.

But as a matter of fact, aren’t you assuming “logocentrism” by putting it this way?

Edwin
 
I think people are missing the point of the critique of “logocentrism” when it comes to animals: no one is arguing that lions should be expected to perform surgery, any more than humans should be expected to bring down gazelle with our bare hands and teeth. And no one is arguing that humans should be able to run faster than any other animal, any more than a cheetah should be expected to write a sonnet.

Different animals are good at different things. Every species is unique in some way – otherwise we couldn’t classify them as a species – and the quality that makes humans unique is their higher brain functions (as opposed to, say, the fast speed of a cheetah or the long neck of a giraffe).

Every species has some unique quality. In humans, this unique quality happens to be higher brain functions.

Because of our higher brain functions, humans have developed language and technology in ways that other species have not (as others have noted, other animals do use language and do build things, just not to the extent that humans do).

The critique here is of the human assumption that their ability to speak makes them somehow “better” than the other creatures. This is illustrated through quaint legends, such as Adam naming the animals. His ability to name them – an ability distinct from their abilities – is foregrounded, and it is presented as both the source of his supriority and the effect of his superiority.

All that’s being pointed out here is that humans aren’t “special” or “better” than any other creatures – just different.
 
I agree with that, though I think there’s a place for common sense.
Sure. We can’t be deep on all things.
When was this? Please don’t tell me that medieval people thought the world was flat, because they didn’t (at least, most intellectuals didn’t).
No, and I’m well aware of the myth of Cristobal Colon thinking the world was flat, which as had the peculiar effect of (apparently) convincing many that since Columbus wasn’t a flat-earther that the flat earth idea its generally just made up, a much broader error than the error being debunked. Whoops.

Anyway, Aristotle for example, argued for a spherical (or maybe just “round”) earth, but that’s notably against the earlier pagan flat earth cosmology. Plutarch, the Iliad, and many earlier (typically Mesopotamian) cosmologies were explicitly flat earth.

Which should not be scandalous. It’s not stupid. It’s common sense. It’s a fine working approximate model of the world around you. It’s just shallow in understanding.
The real problem with “common sense” (and here perhaps I’m showing my own postmodern colors!) is that it is essentially those things that people within a certain culture or subculture take for granted.
Right. A fish is so “in the water” it doesn’t know it’s in the water. We are so “in the culture” that it’s hard to see the culture we’re so immersed in, and “common sense” is one of those euphemisms for the cultural shibboleths of the day.
Hence, you take for granted that you can use “flat earth” as a cliche for “dumb things that smart people once believed.”
I don’t think they are dumb at all. Any more than Newton’s now obsolete physics is dumb – you could land a spaceship on the moon just using Newtonian physics, and you could get around your everyday world thinking the earth is flat. It’s not dumb, it’s just common, and ignorant.

It’s only a problem if one supposes that one’s common sense is some kind of authority that trumps rigorous learning and scholarly analysis as a method of higher learning.
This is a point I’d like to see addressed.
OK, what do you want to see addressed? It’s not clear to me what point your referring to and what aspect you wish to see addressed.
But as a matter of fact, aren’t you assuming “logocentrism” by putting it this way?
No, and I think AntiTheist’s answer above nicely anticipates my answer, here. I use the skills evolution has endowed me with. The spider weaving its web does the same thing, and the bat navigating the night-time forest as well. They couldn’t begin to write a post, or grasp any concept remotely like it, anymore than I would be able to spin a web or echolocate.

The logocentrism doesn’t obtain in using the skills we’ve inherited from our ancestral development; it obtains in the conceit that supposes we’re all that for having the particular capabilities we do. Some even suppose we’re so special we are embossed with the image of gods!

-TS
 
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