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AClaire11
Guest
This has been my experience, as well.
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WJeffrey
Guest
On The Way,
I’d describe the Catholic Church as being big, institutional, cold and unwelcoming, locally, nationally and I would reserve judgement on globally. Having traveled a fair bit, I think I would be more comfortable walking into a Mass in another country than I would in America.
I contacted the 18 Catholic Churches closest to my home and the Diocese before I could find a Catholic Bible Study. I average 4 to 5 Masses per week, and I have an adoration hour at the Divine Mercy Chapel. I average 5 to 7 hours at the Chapel. I volunteer for the Catholic Radio Station, the homeless shelter, with the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministry, It took me six months to get a Knights of Columbus invite, which I just joined. However, it is a brand new chapter, and it is just getting on its feet. I go to most of the pro life rallies and vigils, and most of the social events offered by two churches.
With any other organization, I think I would have found my niche. I’m still on the outside looking in. It is discouraging, but I am going to make it work. I believe that I am on the path that God wants me to be on, and I am becoming the man that God has envisioned me being. Of course, a few hours of daily prayer, study and Masses will do that for a person. It would be nice to form the friendships and community to go along with it.
I’ve moved several times in my life. I’ve never had the difficulty becoming part of a community as I have had with the Church. It is easier to make friends in any other walk of life. My problem is that I want to be friends with men and women who share a similar belief in God and a desire to live according to the teachings of the Church.
I have had to research everything from getting a Catholic bible, a rosary, prayer books ect… with no real guidance from anyone else. This would not happen in a Protestant church where people tend to fall over themselves to welcome newcomers. I couldn’t even get an answer from a Priest or the diocese about what I need to do to get confirmed. I think the Catholic Church is the only entity that I have ever been associated with that puts roadblocks in front of people like me who want to grow in the faith.
I do believe that the Church is losing a lot of potential parishoners based on my own experience. I know I will treat new people a lot differently than I have been treated. If you have specific questions, I’m happy to answer them.
I’d describe the Catholic Church as being big, institutional, cold and unwelcoming, locally, nationally and I would reserve judgement on globally. Having traveled a fair bit, I think I would be more comfortable walking into a Mass in another country than I would in America.
I contacted the 18 Catholic Churches closest to my home and the Diocese before I could find a Catholic Bible Study. I average 4 to 5 Masses per week, and I have an adoration hour at the Divine Mercy Chapel. I average 5 to 7 hours at the Chapel. I volunteer for the Catholic Radio Station, the homeless shelter, with the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministry, It took me six months to get a Knights of Columbus invite, which I just joined. However, it is a brand new chapter, and it is just getting on its feet. I go to most of the pro life rallies and vigils, and most of the social events offered by two churches.
With any other organization, I think I would have found my niche. I’m still on the outside looking in. It is discouraging, but I am going to make it work. I believe that I am on the path that God wants me to be on, and I am becoming the man that God has envisioned me being. Of course, a few hours of daily prayer, study and Masses will do that for a person. It would be nice to form the friendships and community to go along with it.
I’ve moved several times in my life. I’ve never had the difficulty becoming part of a community as I have had with the Church. It is easier to make friends in any other walk of life. My problem is that I want to be friends with men and women who share a similar belief in God and a desire to live according to the teachings of the Church.
I have had to research everything from getting a Catholic bible, a rosary, prayer books ect… with no real guidance from anyone else. This would not happen in a Protestant church where people tend to fall over themselves to welcome newcomers. I couldn’t even get an answer from a Priest or the diocese about what I need to do to get confirmed. I think the Catholic Church is the only entity that I have ever been associated with that puts roadblocks in front of people like me who want to grow in the faith.
I do believe that the Church is losing a lot of potential parishoners based on my own experience. I know I will treat new people a lot differently than I have been treated. If you have specific questions, I’m happy to answer them.
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Ontheway
Guest
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them…
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pianistclare
Guest
Of course.
What has that got to do with my post?
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Ontheway
Guest
The situation you are describing is a bit difficult to explain without knowing all the particulars. Many of us have “issues” with the church. As in any other large and complex organization, there can be difficulties in communicating and getting to the right person. It can sometimes be the way we approach them. There can also be cultural aspects to consider. I have found that forcing an issue is usually the last resort, and not always very successful. I wish you all the best.
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HelenRose
Guest
This is a hard one because responding to the needs of shut-ins and lonely people is a one on one situation. A Church can set up schedules and have meetings to address the problem but there has to be people to come forward. I have often thought (except of course, for people who can not get out) lonely people can come forward and offer their services. Nothing heals loneliness more than to extend a helping hand to another person in need.
There are a number of people in my Church who have taken it upon themselves to take communion to shut-ins.
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Ontheway
Guest
Coming home.
Ever since I can remember, I’ve always felt that the church was like home. I travel quite a bit and always look for a church I can enter at any time, spend some time in prayer and collect myself. Those who travel much will perhaps understand. For me the church is a refuge.
Many years ago, when I was a young man, I was travelling in Europe. One day I entered one of those ornate baroque churches one sees everywhere. I spent a few moments in prayer, and then sat in quiet contemplation, enjoying the peace.
The church was large an had many side altars. There was a middle aged woman busying herself at one of the altars, arranging things, At one point she walked up to me and said - come and help me with some of these chairs I have to move.
I got up and did what she asked and then went back to my seat. Her request did not surprise me and seemed perfectly natural. It felt like we were both at home and I just helped out a bit. I think it was the way she asked - without any formality. Come and help.
I think since that time, completely unawares, I have been waiting for someone in some church to come and say - come and join, come and help, follow me.
Ever since I can remember, I’ve always felt that the church was like home. I travel quite a bit and always look for a church I can enter at any time, spend some time in prayer and collect myself. Those who travel much will perhaps understand. For me the church is a refuge.
Many years ago, when I was a young man, I was travelling in Europe. One day I entered one of those ornate baroque churches one sees everywhere. I spent a few moments in prayer, and then sat in quiet contemplation, enjoying the peace.
The church was large an had many side altars. There was a middle aged woman busying herself at one of the altars, arranging things, At one point she walked up to me and said - come and help me with some of these chairs I have to move.
I got up and did what she asked and then went back to my seat. Her request did not surprise me and seemed perfectly natural. It felt like we were both at home and I just helped out a bit. I think it was the way she asked - without any formality. Come and help.
I think since that time, completely unawares, I have been waiting for someone in some church to come and say - come and join, come and help, follow me.
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HelenRose
Guest
Perhaps someone is waiting for you to say, come with me and join the Bible study, or the choir or the Rosary Society, or the Knights of Columbus, of the kitchen brigade, or the RCIA program, or help with the Religious Ed or any number of the working hands of any church.
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HelenRose
Guest
Shut in people can give an extremely valuable service to the Church by finding out who is in charge of the prayer chain. We need prayer warriors. We need people to pray for our children, our sick, our lonely. By taking on the duty of prayer a lonely person becomes a part of the solution.
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Bonnie
Guest
That is one thing I’m very active in. I agreed to be a part of the prayer line because I didn’t want to say no to the person who asked. I’m glad I said yes.
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WJeffrey
Guest
On The Way,
If you reread your answer, it is the exact reaction I get with every attempt to fit with the church. As an outsider trying “come home to the Catholic Church” it isn’t very inclusive, warm or welcoming.
It is the reason why you don’t see many people between 20 and 50 in Church pews, and you can count people like me in your parish who are trying to return to the Church on their own accord after leaving in the 3rd grade on one hand. If the Church didn’t have its rules on marriage, I don’t think you would find very many RCIA people.
I’ve reached my own conclusion about the Catholic Church being the one true Church, and I am not going anywhere. I just understand why the Church has an active hermit history.
Protestant Denominations are misguided in their views on religion in my opinion, but if you ever go to one of their services, you will have 5 people shake your hand and invite you for a reception where they will introduce you to meet their friends and family. You will be told about their events coming up and the Minister will answer any doctrinal questions you may have.
Does that remind you of the Catholic experience? Am I wrong for wanting more than cordial standoffishness with mild judgements and rebukes coupled with unwarranted defensiveness a refusal to answer any questions with a Good Luck to you blow off? They get tiresome. I could describe the other reactions, but you probably are familiar with them. I’m usually a positive friendly person, Those don’t seem to be the values appreciated at Church. .
Maybe I should try this approach instead.
If you reread your answer, it is the exact reaction I get with every attempt to fit with the church. As an outsider trying “come home to the Catholic Church” it isn’t very inclusive, warm or welcoming.
It is the reason why you don’t see many people between 20 and 50 in Church pews, and you can count people like me in your parish who are trying to return to the Church on their own accord after leaving in the 3rd grade on one hand. If the Church didn’t have its rules on marriage, I don’t think you would find very many RCIA people.
I’ve reached my own conclusion about the Catholic Church being the one true Church, and I am not going anywhere. I just understand why the Church has an active hermit history.
Protestant Denominations are misguided in their views on religion in my opinion, but if you ever go to one of their services, you will have 5 people shake your hand and invite you for a reception where they will introduce you to meet their friends and family. You will be told about their events coming up and the Minister will answer any doctrinal questions you may have.
Does that remind you of the Catholic experience? Am I wrong for wanting more than cordial standoffishness with mild judgements and rebukes coupled with unwarranted defensiveness a refusal to answer any questions with a Good Luck to you blow off? They get tiresome. I could describe the other reactions, but you probably are familiar with them. I’m usually a positive friendly person, Those don’t seem to be the values appreciated at Church. .
Maybe I should try this approach instead.
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WillyAL
Guest
I don’t think anyone here would accuse you of being shy.
It seems that your experience has pretty much confirmed what the majority of posters on this thread have asserted: The Catholic Church simply doesn’t foster the sense of community that is found in most protestant churches. Over the course of my life I have had experience with a few different faith communities - large mainstream protestant church; small, independent, fundamentalist type church; and since marrying my Catholic wife, the Catholic Church. For whatever reason, the Catholic Church - by far - is the one with the least sense of community.
Just an antidotal example that doesn’t prove a thing, but I was struck by this difference…
Many years ago,when I was attending a small protestant community, an elderly gentleman’s wife passed away. This poor man was absolutely crushed. He had no family in the area and felt completely alone in the world. The church community rallied around him. For weeks, people took him food. For months, someone from the church would either call, or more likely, visit him. Slowly but surely they helped him get back on his feet. I believe that church community saved his life, and he sincerely appreciated it.
In contrast, just a couple of years ago a similar situation occurred in the parish where I attend Mass with my Catholic wife. Again, an elderly man lost is wife. He was now alone in the world and totally lost. There was a large turnout for the funeral Mass, but when it was over, everyone left. My wife and I drove him back to the church from the graveside service. The poor guy was inconsolable and just wanted to sit on the park bench in the garden beside the church. I didn’t want to just leave him there all alone and was relieved when the priest returned from the cemetery, parked his car in the garage, and walked over to us. Surely Father has had way more experience than I with this type of situation and would know what to do. What did Father say to comfort this poor guy? What did he say to let him know that he was not alone in the world, but a member of Christ’s Church? “Bob, I’ve got to lock the gates to the parking lot. You’ll have to move your car.”
“Bob” came to Mass almost every week for the next few months and I tried to visit every so often and call a few time a week, but I couldn’t give him what he needed all by myself. He needed a bit of support from a community, but nobody else from the church was interested. Less that a year later I was attending his funeral Mass. I have no doubt that the poor guy died of loneliness. I also have no doubt that if he had been Baptist instead of Catholic, he’d still be here.
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pensmama87
Guest
Maybe it’s just where I live (an area where people are known to be friendly), but the sense of “community” is really about the same everywhere: people who don’t know you smile, make room for you to sit, and if it’s appropriate to make small talk they will. Any mainline Protestant church, Catholic parish, grocery store line, moms at the park, even the DMV. Catholics have never struck me as particularly cold.
That being said, I quickly learned as I church-hopped that non-denoms and Evangelicals were absolutely not for me because of the love-bombing that Bonnie described. Some people may think it’s friendly, I find it a bit more:
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u.../overly-attached-girlfriend_o_1149287.jpg&f=1
That being said, I quickly learned as I church-hopped that non-denoms and Evangelicals were absolutely not for me because of the love-bombing that Bonnie described. Some people may think it’s friendly, I find it a bit more:
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u.../overly-attached-girlfriend_o_1149287.jpg&f=1
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Bonnie
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A touching story, but like you said, it’s an anecdote, not proof. My Protestant parents belonged to a very large church - they were members for years. When my mother was dying of cancer, no one from the church visited her or even called. Even her best friend avoided her until she had lapsed into a coma. The minister visited twice - once a few days before she died, and afterwards to help us plan her funeral.
My father was ignored by all. He was almost deaf by then and found church to be pointless without mom. After a year or so he could no longer drive. He wasn’t visited by anyone outside of the family. When he died, we didn’t use that church for his funeral.
One difference between your anecdote & mine is that my parents had family. Had they not, things would have been very difficult for them.
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CradleJourney
Guest
Agreed. I have participated and volunteered a great deal and truth be told, yes, the people I meet are friendly and helpful…while you’re working / praying / participating. But when it’s over, it’s over. You will definitely get a wave after mass from them or a quick greeting, but never anything more.
Personally, I think it’s a case where Catholics (at least the ones I know) have been raised in a more cautious / restrictive culture, in the sense that my mom would never invite someone to dinner … surely they had other plans, if they said “no”, then they’d feel bad and she’d feel bad, and if they said “yes” then it was only to avoid making her feel bad, etc. Ditto for visiting, bringing meals, etc - surely there family/closer friends are taking care of that, she’d have been intrusive and/or presumptuous to visit or bring something. One simply does not interact unless they are asked.
I suspect more than a few of our protestant brethren on the other hand, have grown up with the opposite type of culture - one where it would be almost wrong not to ask someone to join them, to go visit, etc.
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heart4home
Guest
This…this right here…is a sad representation, of what was the complaint of the OP.
You can get involved, you can give your all to serving, and yet you have ZERO friends in the place where you serve and worship the Lord.
Who is there to serve you, when you have a need? What if you become ill? Who will bring your husband a meal, or offer to drive you to an appt. or visit you in the hospital?
This is not what we find in scriptures. This is not what we find in many smaller protestant churches. So it is clear something is seriously lacking and perhaps even wrong. Signing up to serve, while necessary and what we are called to do, is not going to necessarily remedy the problem.
The Catholic Church seems to fail at creating community. In the larger parishes, they don’t usually have small groups, like many of the Protestant Churches do. We aren’t called to share our burdens with one another, as the protestant churches do.
As Catholics we go to the priest for confession or spiritual guidance, and he knows all our troubles and secret sins that we struggle with, and we come out and put on our faux appearance of having it all together and run out to live and socialize in the world
Even those who seem to be in the clique, involved in everything, are often the ones that don’t want to let you get to close, because you might find out their faults, or see who they really are.
This has been on my mind a lot lately.
I’m guilty of being part of the problem, but I’d love to be and pray to the Lord to be part of the solution too.
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Bonnie
Guest
Sounds like my Protestant parents. They grew up very poor & were not comfortable inviting people other than family to meals. I think it has more to do with culture than religion.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Socializing at the parish isn’t good enough?Agreed. I have participated and volunteered a great deal and truth be told, yes, the people I meet are friendly and helpful…while you’re working / praying / participating. But when it’s over, it’s over. You will definitely get a wave after mass from them or a quick greeting, but never anything more.
Personally, I think it’s a case where Catholics (at least the ones I know) have been raised in a more cautious / restrictive culture, in the sense that my mom would never invite someone to dinner … surely they had other plans, if they said “no”, then they’d feel bad and she’d feel bad, and if they said “yes” then it was only to avoid making her feel bad, etc. Ditto for visiting, bringing meals, etc - surely there family/closer friends are taking care of that, she’d have been intrusive and/or presumptuous to visit or bring something. One simply does not interact unless they are asked.
I suspect more than a few of our protestant brethren on the other hand, have grown up with the opposite type of culture - one where it would be almost wrong not to ask someone to join them, to go visit, etc.
This is starting to sound as if joining a parish ought to entitle a parishioner to a certain number of personal friends. It doesn’t work like that.
If a fellow Catholic has met you, essentially all you have in common with them is religion and they don’t want to talk about religion with you any more than they already do, why would they try to arrange extra social time with you? Why would that make the social time you have with them at the parish doing and talking about parish things “not good enough”?
I know people at church who I think are wonderful Catholics, but we are not cut out to be social partners. We work together, they talk about what they do for fun, their family’s likes and dislikes and so on, and we don’t match. No problem. We have the stuff we do together at church in common. We just enjoy each other at church and at parish events. I don’t see the problem with that.
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WillyAL
Guest
This seems to be a typical Catholic response. I’m not suggesting that it’s “wrong” or that it’s a problem. What I am suggesting is that if one is looking for a sense of family or community where everyone looks after everyone else, one is much more likely to find it in a protestant church.Socializing at the parish isn’t good enough?..
…I don’t see the problem with that.
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CradleJourney
Guest
I guess didn’t explain well. What I meant was during the event (retreat/bible study/church cleaning/CCD class/etc) they seem friendly enough - but coffee and donut time, they immediately turn back to their “group” - or sit by themselves. Ditto for the bleachers at any CYO sporting event, etc. Any attempt to actually socialize is basically rebuffed. So there is no “social time” at the parish for me. If we did socialize there, then I’d be perfectly happy with that - and if it turned into one friendship that would be a blessing.
I don’t expect everyone to get along with me or even a majority - and certainly not become best friends. But the parish could do something to encourage on-going socialization - more situations to interact without specific directions to interact - and people could do better at embracing those chances and reaching out.
Not everyone grew up with Catholic family/friends - I believe we need at least one or two friends who are part of our faith. Someone IRL we can turn to with questions, thoughts, etc.
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