Longing for a simpler faith

[Libertarian_FL]

It can’t be any simpler than the Catholic Church. It’s really simple, follow Jesus through His Church.

Ladies and Gentleman, and the dear person that started the thread may I introduce Simple Churches for discussion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_church

The movement is recent but shows the Father and Son at work to counter what I see as corruption in the body of the faith, the denomination structure itself. I tend to be simpler than even the position above but they have the right idea and is what the Protestant Reformation should have created. You should look into the Simple Church Movement for ideas.

 

[firstmode]

Hmmm. After reading some of the other posts, and re-reading your original post I am wondering.

Is it a simpler faith you are longing for? Or a social club?

It is a very fair statement to say that many Catholic parishes ARE indeed weak when it comes to fellowship. And that is a valid concern.

But if that really is the “only” reason you are searching elsewhere, I would stop and think and pray.

Jesus wasnt about social clubs or even fellowshipping. He was about salvation and redemption.

He was about holiness and getting closer to God the Father. He was about forgiveness of sin and healing.

I expect He, of all people, experienced the most loneliness, of all people. Whom did He really have to completely relate to besides God the Father?

Even His own disciples didn’t “get it” for a great deal of time after His resurrection and His going to the Father.

Just something to mull over.

How deep, or how shallow, do you want your faith to be?

Acts 2

The Fellowship of the Believers
42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

 

[Nine_Two]

Ladies and Gentleman, and the dear person that started the thread may I introduce Simple Churches for discussion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_church

The movement is recent but shows the Father and Son at work to counter what I see as corruption in the body of the faith, the denomination structure itself. I tend to be simpler than even the position above but they have the right idea and is what the Protestant Reformation should have created. You should look into the Simple Church Movement for ideas.

While the denomination structure is a corruption of the faith, refusing to believe in it does not make it any less true than an atheists refusal to believe in God makes him untrue.

 

[firstmode]

Hi Emeraldcoast I understand this. It however is Catholic teaching that only Catholics and Orthodox have the Eucharist (because of Apostolic Succession). I know you would disagree, I’m not going to argue that, but I’ll just say that as a Catholic I’m trying to follow the Church’s teachings on this.

It might also help to know that I used to be non denominational Protestant, and my church taught that Communion is entirely symbolic… they do not believe in the Sacraments. Many Catholics who leave the Church, become evangelical… and are not taught the Sacraments anymore.

Merry Christmas to you too!

There is Apostolic Succession in the Church of England, the Anglican church - The Episcopals. This church is the roots of most protestant churches origins which brings many if not all protestant denominations under the fold of Apostolic Succession theoretically.

BTW. the Orthodox believe that the Catholic church lost ALL Apostolic Succession because they are are anathema to the one true church. They are not schismatic, but excommunicated from the One Holy Apostolic catholic Orthodox Church that holds the beliefs of Christians and what they have believed since the beginning.

Just as you say we have lost our Apostolic Succession, so say the Orthodox that you have lost yours.

 

[TheQuestioner]

There is Apostolic Succession in the Church of England, the Anglican church - The Episcopals. This church is the roots of most protestant churches origins which brings many if not all protestant denominations under the fold of Apostolic Succession theoretically.

BTW. the Orthodox believe that the Catholic church lost ALL Apostolic Succession because they are are anathema to the one true church. They are not schismatic, but excommunicated from the One Holy Apostolic catholic Orthodox Church that holds the beliefs of Christians and what they have believed since the beginning.

Just as you say we have lost our Apostolic Succession, so say the Orthodox that you have lost yours.

Not necessarily. One must pay attention into how authority is passed down and also as to how those other Churches came about. For example some of those Churches were started by lay people, thus the Succession is no longer Apostolic and broken.

Also, this has nothing to do with this thread, please let’s stay on topic

 

[emeraldcoast]

Not necessarily. One must pay attention into how authority is passed down and also as to how those other Churches came about. For example some of those Churches were started by lay people, thus the Succession is no longer Apostolic and broken.

Also, this has nothing to do with this thread, please let’s stay on topic

You say it is not on topic, I say it is…

God Bless!

 

[TheQuestioner]

You say it is not on topic, I say it is…

God Bless!

For a second i had to check and see if I posted on the wrong thread…nope, its not on topic. The Apostolic Succession of a Church is not the issue here. The issue is that a once faithful Catholic is starting to move away, and we must work to help that person understand what they are doing before they decide to do it. This seems to be one of those simple cases of misunderstanding to me. The faith is only as complicated as you care to make it. You don’t really have to know every single theological point. Its nice to know but not necessary.

I think that should put us back on track

 

[firstmode]

I agree, Apostolic succession is not the topic, I just brought up a counterpoint as it was mentioned as a reason to not look outside the Catholic tradition/denomination (I know, it is not a denom in your eyes).

 

[Middleman]

Our family attended a Community Church for Christmas. Our teenagers felt much more comfortable. The music was excellent and inspiring, we knew people there, the kids had friends there too. The kids have rejected the Catholic Church, mostly because of the deadness of our parish, the only one in our rural area.

We plan to seek spiritual nourishment at the Community Church from now on. The alternative is that the kids become more and more alienated.

I think what kept us in the Church previously are the endless mandatory rules made to bind Catholics to the Church and not seek out alternatives. This gives the Church a monopoly on our spiritual lives, yet allowing them to deliver a low quality product. We have been very faithful over the years, always participated when there were feeble attempts to get programs started.

This Community Church has a bible study for teenagers at the 10 AM Sunday service taught by the mother of my daughter’s best friend. She’s excited about it.

Another thing that clarified things, sad to say, was all the negativity at this site. There’s a lot of anger right now in the Catholic Church. I don’t like the spirit of the Traditionalists, they seem to want the Church to be a museum and find anything contemporary an anathema.

My children really like the life teen Masses but they are too far away for us to drive to. People here seem to think they are offensive to God. I think that’s a shame.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Hi Middleman,

I don’t doubt a word you say. I remember thinking my own children were suffering in a lackluster Catholic parish about ten years ago. But it was never an option to go to a non-Catholic Church. Even though I think continued attendance at that dead parish might have been detrimental to our children’s spiritual well-being. We moved.

I appreciate your decision and don’t imagine to change your mind, but I thought I would leave you with a few thoughts on why we would never have left the Catholic Church. The Babe we celebrate was inauspicious. Only to the eyes of a few privileged souls was there the knowledge that the Holy Child was Creator, King of the Universe, God in the Flesh. The Nativity teaches us that God wills to hide most of His greatest gifts behind a veil as He did when He came without pomp and ostentation.

Surely, your kids were bored to death. Even if your priest is filled with God’s love, sometimes in the rural mission churches, their own zeal can be weighted by weariness. I assume you had a very good priest who was unable to reflect God’s love to your family. The reason I would have stayed is because of my knowledge of how God wrks through the Sacraments, in a very quiet, veiled, mystical way, not with upraised voice, not easily discerned. My faith would not have let me leave.

I assume you don’t have that faith. I don’t mean that as an accusation. It is easy to lose faith in the Sacraments. They are so quiet! I certainly understand the hunger you and your kids have for good, seriously Christian friends and a desire for less thinking and more loving and more singing and just being happy. I know you are committed for the time being, and with a good motive, your children. God loves you. You knew that. But I mean the God who from my perspective would rather you stick it out with the Sacraments loves you, and your family of course.

Maybe later, maybe a dozen years from now. Maybe when a tragedy strikes. Maybe when a grandchild is born. Maybe when you have moved and can see what a vibrant Catholic Christianity can do for someone else’s children. Maybe when you find an ol;d Rosary and have an impulse to use it. I am just saying, you are welcome back ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. God loves you, and this Traditionalist Catholic (SSPX) prays that God will bless you and your dear ones on your journey. All of us are searching for happiness, and surely, if we are searching for it in Christ, He will never abandon us.

A Very Merry Christmas to You and Yours.

Rory

 

[Marie5890]

Acts 2

The Fellowship of the Believers
42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

And to re-state what I said in my post

"It is a very fair statement to say that many Catholic parishes ARE indeed weak when it comes to fellowship. And that is a valid concern.

But if that really is the “only” reason you are searching elsewhere, I would stop and think and pray."

 

[Marie5890]

Our family attended a Community Church for Christmas. Our teenagers felt much more comfortable. The music was excellent and inspiring, we knew people there, the kids had friends there too. The kids have rejected the Catholic Church, mostly because of the deadness of our parish, the only one in our rural area.

We plan to seek spiritual nourishment at the Community Church from now on. The alternative is that the kids become more and more alienated.

I think what kept us in the Church previously are the endless mandatory rules made to bind Catholics to the Church and not seek out alternatives. This gives the Church a monopoly on our spiritual lives, yet allowing them to deliver a low quality product. We have been very faithful over the years, always participated when there were feeble attempts to get programs started.

This Community Church has a bible study for teenagers at the 10 AM Sunday service taught by the mother of my daughter’s best friend. She’s excited about it.

Another thing that clarified things, sad to say, was all the negativity at this site. There’s a lot of anger right now in the Catholic Church. I don’t like the spirit of the Traditionalists, they seem to want the Church to be a museum and find anything contemporary an anathema.

My children really like the life teen Masses but they are too far away for us to drive to. People here seem to think they are offensive to God. I think that’s a shame.

Best to your and your family in your spiritual journey!

 

[Middleman]

Best to your and your family in your spiritual journey!

Thank you.

 

[KathleenGee]

I moved out of state. Ended up in a spot where we encountered some very unusual Catholics…I also went to some surrounding parishes…but it didn’t seem right and really affected my kids’ faith.

The Bishops put out this pastoral plan for the youth, ’ Renewing the Vision’…but it requires a large community and its ideas are right on but our culture of relating, being a Christian brotherhood, is really needing help…and I wish we could see more protestants come back to the Church and share their gifts.

Renewing the Vision calls for mentors within a parish to help the parents and be a mentor with the teen…but people’s work load and the complexity and stress of the present culture we all live in makes this plan that much more impossible to implement.

Teen Life is starting up in my parish. Catechizing teens is very hard because you have to do an action first, and then have a meeting and find a theme, and then have them reflect and analyze and relate to the Gospel…but that approach also says we are too intellectual…we are trying to share more mature thinking on kids when they aren’t ready…prayer and right and wrong and knowing Christ’s love and standing up for them to help them stay pure is alot of it right there…and we didn’t have that for mine or others for the last 20 years.

But we pray and with confidence God answers all our prayers.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\My daughter tells me that other Christians are more enthusiastic about God and Jesus. She thinks that most people in our church are dead in their faith\

**Ask her two questions:

1. Is enthusiasm necessarily spiritual? Why does the make that assumption?
2. Can she really see into other people’s hearts to determine who is “dead in their faith” and who isn’t? This is what she’s claiming here.

Simplicity is not the whole story, because truth is seldom simple, much less is it simplistic.

2 + 2 = 4 is simple and true, but it’s not all there is to math.

I’ve noticed that most pop-evangelicals are VERY enthusiastic about spouting catch phrases and proof texts, but when you ask them what the next verse says, or something their “simple” faith doesn’t cover, they are usually frustrated, or give another stock answer, such as “You have to take the whole Bible in context,”**

 

[KathleenGee]

We cannot base our faith community on emotions or feeling good or being happy…but people have to realize they show the face of Christ to others…

A number of years ago, John Paul II said the American Catholic Church parishes had a serious problem with the pride and power issues regarding some priests and laypeople.

The power people…super Catholics, whatever…

We deeply, deeply need to remodel our parish attitude to the Christian brotherhood and build genuine fraternity. Sometimes all it needs is the right leadership…priestly or lay.

 

[Middleman]

We cannot base our faith community on emotions or feeling good or being happy…but people have to realize they show the face of Christ to others…

A number of years ago, John Paul II said the American Catholic Church parishes had a serious problem with the pride and power issues regarding some priests and laypeople.

The power people…super Catholics, whatever…

We deeply, deeply need to remodel our parish attitude to the Christian brotherhood and build genuine fraternity. Sometimes all it needs is the right leadership…priestly or lay.

Thanks. Merry Christmas and God Bless.

 

[RS2006]

All I can say is don’t do it. I got tired of pushing my son to go to mass and confirmation classes. It lead me away from the church into a non-catholic church for many years but gradually I became just as disinterested. Today both my children are adults. Neither practice any faith which is upsetting to me because of the grandchildren. I came back to the Catholic church a few years ago after being away for over 20 years. I never really understood my faith until I came back and made an effort to study, pray and work on a relationship with Christ. Yes, many non-catholics have relationships with Christ and are earnest however they don’t have Christ in Communion.
I suggest you seek out another Catholic church. Although they all believe and practice the same, I found they can vary in their various church ministries. For example, the church I attend offers more for the youth than many of the other Catholic Churches. Seek out a priest you can speak honestly with and feel comfortable with. Frankly the protestant churches draw their membership by offering services that often are more entertaining than prayerful and holy. Church was never meant to be anything but a solemn place to pray to our Lord.

 

[KathleenGee]

Unfortunately you have to seek out another parish…people are probably very set in their ways…my friend told me to leave this area…and I must say after being here for 20 years, the parish I am in now has so much grace…that it has made up for all that time…I pray for those people…but I am so glad I finally changed.

This lady who has been there has her birthday the day after mine, and she will have my birthday included in the party at the meeting…

I finally must add as well that the American and Canadian churches had alot of things enter them that were not good and appear were deliberate…it is all over with.

We all need to find ways to restore the Christian brotherhood and our own sense of humanity back. People can draw too much into church to ‘stay away’ from the errors and then they loose their own sense of humanity…people withdraw into themselves and so on.

Lord Jesus, please restore our church in truth and joy and Christian brotherhood.

 

[Ignatius]

I think it’s too complicated. I’ve read a lot here at this site that confirms that thought. I think our family will be looking for a simpler faith.

The Early Church is The Catholic Church. The early church’s teachings and practice are very much in line with modern Catholic beliefs and practice.

Following are some links to good resources about the history of the early church and the writings of the early church fathers.
Articles:

• Back to the Beginning: A Brief Introduction to the Ancient Catholic Church by George Sim Johnston
• Early Church Fathers Overview – Dr. Marcellino D’Ambrosio gives a brief introduction to who the early church fathers were.
• Catholic Answers: Fathers Know Best – Links to articles on various doctrinal topics, with quotes from the early church fathers on each topic
• Why I’m Catholic – This article by Stephen Ray contains several quotes from the early church fathers that played a role in his conversion to the Catholic Church.

Books:

• Four Witnesses: The Early Church in Her Own Words by Rod Bennett
• We Look for a Kingdom: The Everyday Lives of the Early Christians by Carl Sommer
• Faith of the Early Fathers, Volume 1, edited by William Jurgens
• Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers (Penguin Classics)

Video:

• Apostolic Fathers: Handing on the Faith (Footprints of God Series) with Steve Ray