Looking across the 49th (from both sides)

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Jestersage

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Here’s a question for those in North America: Do you perceive it’s easier to be a Catholic in Canada or America?

As a Canadian, here’s how I think:

On one hand, the Evangelical polemic is not that strong in Canada.A bit more friendly in comparison.

On the other hand: Getting Catholic book is tough and expensive
You use NRSV-CE for liturgy
This side of the border is so pro gay, pro choice, pro (a bunch of stuff I forgot) and anti western it makes Califonia look a bit conservative… unless you are in the prairies, which have their own Anti-west problem.
Good luck getting TLM, even with SSPX.
Traveling sucks

Verdict: You can be a lukewarm / bare minimum catholic in Canada. Anything more and it’s good luck.

What about you guys?
 
Catholics face challenges both sides of the border, and a lot of them are similar.

The NRSV for the Lectionary is the least of our problems. It’s been vetted and approved by the Holy See, and that lays that issue to rest. I’d even argue we have a better lectionary than the Americans with their 1970+1986 NAB.

I have the TLM. I have the Ukrainian Divine Liturgy. I have the Melkite Divine Liturgy. I have the Maronite Qurbono. I have the Ordinariate Divine Worship. And of course I have the Ordinary Form. Great living in Calgary.

We have good bishops here and some meh-bishops here. We have solid priests and some not-so. Things that are true everywhere.

There are human rights thugs here. There are in-your-face gay lobbies here. There is no restriction on abortion here. But then, similar problems exist in the United States. On the other hand, we have Catholics and non-Catholics who speak out against abortion and the gay lobby, we have people dedicated to forty days for life, and even bishops who get hauled before courts and “human rights” tribunals for upholding Catholic teaching (e.g. Bishop Emeritus Fred Henry).

That comment about being lukewarm/bare minimum in Canada is therefore uncalled for. We are all capable of being good, solid Catholics in Canada or anywhere in the world.
 
I haven’t found the French priests in the Great Lakes areas of Canada to be very lukewarm or bare minimum. The opposite in fact - they’re tougher on topics like sin than their US counterparts.
 
I know there is an FSSP parish in Vancouver and an SSPX chapel near there too. In Victoria there is a Diocesan parish that has a TLM every Sunday. Other than that I have no knowledge of Canadian Catholics.
 
When I read this title, I mistakenly read it as “Looking across the 42nd (from both sides)” and naturally assumed someone was going to try to show N. Korea’s perspective on the current donnybrook.

:whacky:
 
on_the_hill said:
When I read this title, I mistakenly read it as “Looking across the 42nd (from both sides)” and naturally assumed someone was going to try to show N. Korea’s perspective on the current donnybrook.

:whacky:
Click to expand...
well, the Americans did think Canada = North Korea…
 
Jestersage said:
Here’s a question for those in North America: Do you perceive it’s easier to be a Catholic in Canada or America?

As a Canadian, here’s how I think:

On one hand, the Evangelical polemic is not that strong in Canada.A bit more friendly in comparison.

On the other hand: Getting Catholic book is tough and expensive
You use NRSV-CE for liturgy
This side of the border is so pro gay, pro choice, pro (a bunch of stuff I forgot) and anti western it makes Califonia look a bit conservative… unless you are in the prairies, which have their own Anti-west problem.
Good luck getting TLM, even with SSPX.
Traveling sucks

Verdict: You can be a lukewarm / bare minimum catholic in Canada. Anything more and it’s good luck.

What about you guys?
Click to expand...
Interesting comparison.
One aspect you mention is “evangelical polemic” being not that strong in Canada. Not sure polemic is the operative word here. The US is the stronghold of evangelicalism, but that is no longer bad for Catholics. In many cases they are our only allies for religious liberty, prolife and the sanctity of marriage.

That portion of US evangelicalism that is anti Catholic is shrinking fast. But evangelicalism itself seems to be getting diluted, with competing non denominational churches that offer little doctrine. Don’t know if non denominationals are sprouting up north of the border.
 
Jestersage said:
Here’s a question for those in North America: Do you perceive it’s easier to be a Catholic in Canada or America?

As a Canadian, here’s how I think:

On one hand, the Evangelical polemic is not that strong in Canada.A bit more friendly in comparison.

On the other hand: Getting Catholic book is tough and expensive
You use NRSV-CE for liturgy
This side of the border is so pro gay, pro choice, pro (a bunch of stuff I forgot) and anti western it makes Califonia look a bit conservative… unless you are in the prairies, which have their own Anti-west problem.
Good luck getting TLM, even with SSPX.
Traveling sucks

Verdict: You can be a lukewarm / bare minimum catholic in Canada. Anything more and it’s good luck.

What about you guys?
Click to expand...
You can’t paint Canada nor the US with one brush. And for the record, there are at least a couple parishes that offer a regular TLM Mass here in the archdiocese of Vancouver. Holy Family parish, entrusted to the FSSP, offers it 7 days a week.
 
Question re: Holy Days of Obligation: Why Does US have more Holy days of Obligation, and how easy is it for the Americans to fulfill it? (Canada have only 2: Dec 25th and Jan 1)
 
AFAIK the American bishops require us to observe less Holy Days than are prescribed on the universal Calendar (some of them are transferred to Sunday). We have one coming up this Tuesday: the Assumption. In my current city of Las Cruces with about 110k people there are vigils and multiple Masses on the actual Holy Day. I’ve been to each parish and the Newman Center; because this area is heavily bilingual there are English and Spanish Masses in every parish, so there’s an average of 4 Masses, with the Cathedral hosting 5, not including Saturday Masses. Naturally, there is a ubiquitous Catholic presence here, with many images of Our Lady of Guadalupe in the old town.

I haven’t personally experienced any awkwardness with evangelicals in my brief 3 and a half years in the Church. My parents (from the northeast) are evangelical, with my father being an elder at his church, and while they find my faith to be wrong on various levels, they haven’t been disrespectful about it. The only other event that comes to mind is a guy who lived in a small house in the desert outside of a Catholic School I taught at for a year. He saw me praying the Rosary while going on a walk and he mentioned one time that he had some tracts he wanted to share with me; talked about how he had a relationship with Jesus Christ and didn’t have a need for statues, Mary, etc. The conversation wasn’t disrespectful or condescending at any point and I was never offended. He spoke plainly according to his convictions. I suppose it might have been possible for it to get heated but (generally speaking) it takes two people for that to happen instead of one, and I knew the man was trying to do what was right.
 
At one time, before Vatican II French Canadian places like Quebec and Montreal were simply loaded with Catholic life and culture. We never had anything like that in the States. But now it’s a lot of lapsed and ex-Catholics and they are a lot worse than the secularized Americans who don’t have an in-bred hatred of the Faith.
Other places in Canada (I’m mainly familar with the east) are dominated by Anglicanism and some of that is high-church very similar to trad Catholicism. Again, we don’t have that kind of Anglo-catholic presence here.
Reading Jim Demers’ books years ago gave the impression that all the Canadian bishops were insane liberals - thankfully that was not really true then and certainly not now.
I do agree that it seems harder to be a fervent Catholic in Canada because one is standing out against one’s own people. I think the government support of Catholic schools may have something to do with that.
But there are different problems in the U.S. There is less of a cultural attachment so people just drop out and are never heard from again.

Most importantly, there is a huge sector of the American public that knows absolutely nothing about Catholicism. It’s like we are some sort of alien cult - and that doesn’t seem to be the case in Canada as much.

With traditionalism, we do have more of the spirit of the wild west here, so we get not only the SSPX but many branches and off-shoots of sedes, etc. I think the CMRI was the only group like that in Canada, if I’m not mistaken.
 
reggieM said:
At one time, before Vatican II French Canadian places like Quebec and Montreal were simply loaded with Catholic life and culture. We never had anything like that in the States. But now it’s a lot of lapsed and ex-Catholics and they are a lot worse than the secularized Americans who don’t have an in-bred hatred of the Faith.
Other places in Canada (I’m mainly familar with the east) are dominated by Anglicanism and some of that is high-church very similar to trad Catholicism. Again, we don’t have that kind of Anglo-catholic presence here.
Reading Jim Demers’ books years ago gave the impression that all the Canadian bishops were insane liberals - thankfully that was not really true then and certainly not now.
I do agree that it seems harder to be a fervent Catholic in Canada because one is standing out against one’s own people. I think the government support of Catholic schools may have something to do with that.
But there are different problems in the U.S. There is less of a cultural attachment so people just drop out and are never heard from again.

Most importantly, there is a huge sector of the American public that knows absolutely nothing about Catholicism. It’s like we are some sort of alien cult - and that doesn’t seem to be the case in Canada as much.

With traditionalism, we do have more of the spirit of the wild west here, so we get not only the SSPX but many branches and off-shoots of sedes, etc. I think the CMRI was the only group like that in Canada, if I’m not mistaken.
Click to expand...
There is a reason for the hatred that many, especially French Canadians, feel towards the Catholic Church. Until Vatican II, the Church in Quebec was Jansenist, clericalist and oppressive. It’s too long and complex to recount here.

Suffices to say that there was huge backlash at around the same time the rest of the Western world was liberalizing and I was in that backlash, I left the Church in the '70s, but came back in the '90s.

Interestingly, I got far far more respect for my faith, in the workplace,from Muslims than most secular fellow French Canadians. It’s one reason I see the increasing of the Islamic population in a positive light: they bring faith matters into the open through their faithfulness in prayer, and their genuine respect for people of faith, at least those I encountered. We’d even mutually encourage each other at Lent and Ramadan.

Is it hard to openly profess the faith in Quebec in the 21st Century? Sometimes. But I don’t really care so much. Jesus promised us it would be, so I’m neither surprised nor alarmed.
 
Jestersage said:
Here’s a question for those in North America: Do you perceive it’s easier to be a Catholic in Canada or America?

As a Canadian, here’s how I think:

On one hand, the Evangelical polemic is not that strong in Canada.A bit more friendly in comparison.

On the other hand: Getting Catholic book is tough and expensive
You use NRSV-CE for liturgy
This side of the border is so pro gay, pro choice, pro (a bunch of stuff I forgot) and anti western it makes Califonia look a bit conservative… unless you are in the prairies, which have their own Anti-west problem.
Good luck getting TLM, even with SSPX.
Traveling sucks

Verdict: You can be a lukewarm / bare minimum catholic in Canada. Anything more and it’s good luck.

What about you guys?
Click to expand...
It depends on where you live. I know that I’d have to travel for a few days to reach an area where I could attend an EF Mass. If I lived in a city it would be a lot easier. No FSSP or SSPX in my neck of the woods. Catholics here are about 20% of the population and other churches support us in most things we do, as we support them. We often do community stuff as a group of Christians.

I have no problem practicing my Faith in my small town or at work. My young boss attends a Baptist church and my other co-worker is Anglican. It’s a respectful environment and we sometimes discuss various aspects of our faiths.
 
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