Looking at Impure Things out of Curiosity

  • Thread starter Thread starter fishi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fishi

Guest
First off i am rather scrupulous and ive talked to my city’s priests about it many times but it hasnt helped much so i thought i’d post one of my reoccuring problems here. ive also scanned the scrupulous anonymous archives which help.

For example, i just confessed yesterday, and today i was online and a gossip ad that i saw from the corner of my eye read “openly gay celebs” i was immediatley drawn to the word gay but fought any impure thoughts (impure thought of every sort are always bombarding my head) yet i still wanted to read this title out of curiosity (and perhaps impure pleasure, but im not sure, as always) and see the picture directly above it of a gay celeb, which i did. so i’m thinking this was mortal material but then again i am scrupulous and don’t have much direction. my excuse here is “well i did not consent the impure thoughts” but i did consent to reading this title and seeing the photo, which is what i think is the grave matter.

sigh:confused:
 
fishi said:
First off i am rather scrupulous and ive talked to my city’s priests about it many times but it hasnt helped much so i thought i’d post one of my reoccuring problems here. ive also scanned the scrupulous anonymous archives which help.

For example, i just confessed yesterday, and today i was online and a gossip ad that i saw from the corner of my eye read “openly gay celebs” i was immediatley drawn to the word gay but fought any impure thoughts (impure thought of every sort are always bombarding my head) yet i still wanted to read this title out of curiosity (and perhaps impure pleasure, but im not sure, as always) and see the picture directly above it of a gay celeb, which i did. so i’m thinking this was mortal material but then again i am scrupulous and don’t have much direction. my excuse here is “well i did not consent the impure thoughts” but i did consent to reading this title and seeing the photo, which is what i think is the grave matter.

sigh:confused:
Click to expand...
From the Compendium of the Catechism:
  1. When does one commit a mortal sin?
1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
  1. When does one commit a venial sin?
1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
 
Sorry, Bookcat, but posting the rules for mortal and veiniel sins does NOTHING for a scrupulous person. If I was her, I’d immediately think, well, how do I know it’s grave matter? What if I just try to THINK it’s not grave matter? Is there really intention to sin here? Can there be a difference? What if, but what, when, if, etc.

OP, I’m not sure how the best way to answer this WOULD be. I’m sure you know the rules for sin and have heard them over and over like I have. But I don’t know how to apply them to this scenario any better than you
 
fishi said:
First off i am rather scrupulous and ive talked to my city’s priests about it many times but it hasnt helped much so i thought i’d post one of my reoccuring problems here. ive also scanned the scrupulous anonymous archives which help.

For example, i just confessed yesterday, and today i was online and a gossip ad that i saw from the corner of my eye read “openly gay celebs” i was immediatley drawn to the word gay but fought any impure thoughts (impure thought of every sort are always bombarding my head) yet i still wanted to read this title out of curiosity (and perhaps impure pleasure, but im not sure, as always) and see the picture directly above it of a gay celeb, which i did. so i’m thinking this was mortal material but then again i am scrupulous and don’t have much direction. my excuse here is “well i did not consent the impure thoughts” but i did consent to reading this title and seeing the photo, which is what i think is the grave matter.

sigh:confused:
Click to expand...
you (or your confessor) will have to judge this particular event.

But what I can say is …

there is a difference between:

Temptation and sin.

Partial consent and complete consent.

The first of the first (which happens more to us…) and our deliberate actions.

It can happen that we see all sorts of things like this as we make our way through the world…and such can be a temptation …and thus no sin rather virtue for we turn to Christ or at least away from the thing…we see them and then look away once we realize it…

(I do not mean that we are starring at some lustful image or looking lustfully at something etc…)

there can be the ‘first of the first’ those things that start sort of on their own…including even depending on the temptation a ‘automatic reaction or liking’ that begins to draw one…which again is still no deliberate sin.

or there can be a slight hesitation…or that semi-automatic look…etc…or even half consent …and thus a venial sin or no sin ( first two perhaps could be a sin or perhaps not…depends)

Or of course one can have something that is grave…and then with full knowledge one gives complete consent…and thus commits a mortal sin.
 
shondrea said:
Sorry, Bookcat, but posting the rules for mortal and veiniel sins does NOTHING for a scrupulous person. If I was her, I’d immediately think, well, how do I know it’s grave matter? What if I just try to THINK it’s not grave matter? Is there really intention to sin here? Can there be a difference? What if, but what, when, if, etc.

OP, I’m not sure how the best way to answer this WOULD be. I’m sure you know the rules for sin and have heard them over and over like I have. But I don’t know how to apply them to this scenario any better than you
Click to expand...
give me time…it does help…but not done yet.

(you must not have read my many posts on the subject)
 
Regarding when one is tempted and one wonders if one gave compete consent…various theological works give some helpful signs of not having complete consent…such as:

being half asleep…distracted by another matter and hardly noticing the thought…after the act or thought one scarcely remembers what happened…one hesitates but does not want to offend God and so after the moments of hesitation one rejects the temptation…one resists thoughts but in a half hearted way or in a weak manner putting up half resistance (hence partial consent so perhaps a venial sin)…
 
As a man…I see of course ‘sexual titles’ if they happen appear…or on tv some image appears for some ad which is immodest…or at the store some cover of some immodest magizine…

it may be that I look briefly … then look away…(for they sort of just appear and one sees them)

which can be:
  1. the first of the first and thus no sin.
  2. a moments look of curiosity and thus a venial sin perhaps.
it would depend on how I looked etc…

Now if it were some lustful image…i would want to certainly avoid it as best as I can for this can be a near occasion for any man to lust…

or deliberately reading some lustful title …out of a lustful desire…(not just cause it popped on the screen and my eyes happen to see it and instantly read it)
but with the culture as it is one can not avoid such things…they are everywhere…one just does what one can to look at it …or to look away…

but it is important to relax…do not stress over it…or scruple about it. For if one fears such things …it can just make things worse…
 
fishi said:
(impure thought of every sort are always bombarding my head)
Click to expand...
  1. This is a difficulty that has experienced by certain Christians…for centuries…it can be a real torture.
  2. Relax. Do not worry.
  3. Those with scruples have a real difficulty often with this.
  4. They can be internal but not willed. They can even seem like ‘you are the one causing them’ …
A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it is a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it – say a sexual thought – --but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.
But these are not even temping for you! they bother you!

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

What if one is doubting if they gave full consent – well if you are seeking to follow Christ and live a good life or at least not giving in often in that area-- you can assume or judge that you did not. Especially since you are not ordinarily giving it to such things…(again these are not even ‘temptations’ )

and thus they are should not keep one from Communion!

This is especially true of those with scruples…

remember – for everyone --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not.

Simply do not consent…and relax. have a sense of humor.

And remember – we are not even obliged to confess doubtful things…
 
As for Scruples in general:

A person with scruples will often find that they are doubting lots of things…even their doubts.

They need to have a confessor they can confide in…and learn to despise their scruples…to stand firm against them.

Scruples should be treated like a barking dog …and just ignored and passed by… one does not stop to argue with a barking dog one just keeps walking (this wisdom about the dog is from a Carthusian from the 15th century --Joannes Lanspergius)
 
now i am not saying…go ahead and look…or that it was not a sin (you or your confessor will have to judge this)…but I offer all the above to help at least in general…
 
I will add too that a person must know themselves as to what is a particular temptation or even near occasion of sin…mortal or venial…and seek to avoid what is reasonable to avoid…

being mindful that we cannot avoid occasions of venial sins all the time…nor is is reasonable to do so completely…for they are quite frequent…

of course avoiding what is near occasion of mortal sin

and something may be a near occasion for mortal sin for one but not for another…

of course those with scruples should talk perhaps with the confessors about such…and avoid scrupling over things.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top