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Chrysologus400
Guest
I’m looking for a good book on Mormonism, either one written by a Mormon, or one written by a Christian as an apologetic against Mormonism. Any recommendations?
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J
Jerusha
Guest
My favorite source, which contains both, is on-line
lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/
I prefer original sources.
Here is a specialty publisher-- they pretty well cover the full range
signaturebooks.com/index.html
lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/
I prefer original sources.
Here is a specialty publisher-- they pretty well cover the full range
signaturebooks.com/index.html
C
Casen
Guest
I suggest “The Latter-day Saint Experience in America” by Terryl L. Givens.
I think it gives a very fair introduction to Mormonism and isn’t too sugary sweet as many pro-LDS books tend to be and remains fairly objective. Terryl L. Givens is a professor of religion and literature at the University of Richmond, Virginia.
C
Casen
Guest
Of course, a good place to start would be the Book of Mormon. A lot of so called “experts” on Mormonism seem to forget the book that started it all…
I highly recommend the “Readers Edition” by Grant Hardy. The text is unchanged but the formatting helps a great deal. Also the introduction and appendix are excellent.
I highly recommend the “Readers Edition” by Grant Hardy. The text is unchanged but the formatting helps a great deal. Also the introduction and appendix are excellent.
J
Jerusha
Guest
I prefer Givens’ “By the Hand of Mormon”, myself. You can read both to get a broder perspective.
A
alterserver_07
Guest
I like the God Makers myself, especially since it is on a movie. Also the tapes of Inside Mormonism: Great Apostacy or Apostolic Succesion by Thomas F. Smith from St. Joseph Communications and THe Mormon Challenge by Paul Dupre from St. Joseph Communications too. Great stuff if you are not in the mood to read.
C
Casen
Guest
The godmakers? You’ve got to be joking. There is almost no truth in that piece of propaganda. Even our most passionate dissenters have admitted there is no intellectual honesty in it and to anyone that has actually been to an LDS temple the claims in it are laughable. Anyway, knowing your frame of reference helps me better understand why so much of what you post here is wrong.
D
DeFide
Guest
Inside Mormonism by Isaiah Bennett, available from Catholic Answers www.catholic.com
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arieh0310
Guest
Try "Losing a Lost Tribe " By Simon Southerton
From Amazon.com:
Book Description
The Book of Mormon narrates voyages to the Americas by ancient Israelites. “2 Nephi 1:9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall prosper upon the face of this land; [The Americas] and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves” The descendants of these ancient seafarers are said to be the tribes of Native Americans who were on hand to greet Columbus, the Spanish Conquistadors, and the Pilgrims. Israelites are also said to be the ancestors of the Polynesians.
Enter DNA. With the advent of molecular genealogy, scientists now have a tool to test hypotheses about Indian origins, previously based on skull shapes, blood types, linguistics, and cultural studies. By means of DNA genealogy, Native Americans have been traced to an area surrounding Lake Baikal in Siberia before their migration to the New World over 14,000 years ago. The evidence is definitive and unequivocal.
What do Latter-day Saint scientists have to say about this? Is it possible that a few, not all, Native Americans could be of Israelite origin? Could Polynesians represent an admixture of Southeast Asian and Israelite heritage? Professors at Brigham Young University are proposing a radical new reinterpretation of the Book of Mormon to accommodate this new field of science.
Explaining the scientific and theological issues in this debate is Dr. Simon Southerton, a molecular geneticist from Australia. He particularly responds to the issues raised by the BYU professors such as the implications of the mysterious lineage X, absent in Mesoamerica, and supposed anomalies in the genetic picture such as Kennewick Man and even the genetic history of the lowly sweet potato. Having been raised Mormon, Southerton knows the theological side of the issue as intimately as he knows the science.
From Amazon.com:
Book Description
The Book of Mormon narrates voyages to the Americas by ancient Israelites. “2 Nephi 1:9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall prosper upon the face of this land; [The Americas] and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves” The descendants of these ancient seafarers are said to be the tribes of Native Americans who were on hand to greet Columbus, the Spanish Conquistadors, and the Pilgrims. Israelites are also said to be the ancestors of the Polynesians.
Enter DNA. With the advent of molecular genealogy, scientists now have a tool to test hypotheses about Indian origins, previously based on skull shapes, blood types, linguistics, and cultural studies. By means of DNA genealogy, Native Americans have been traced to an area surrounding Lake Baikal in Siberia before their migration to the New World over 14,000 years ago. The evidence is definitive and unequivocal.
What do Latter-day Saint scientists have to say about this? Is it possible that a few, not all, Native Americans could be of Israelite origin? Could Polynesians represent an admixture of Southeast Asian and Israelite heritage? Professors at Brigham Young University are proposing a radical new reinterpretation of the Book of Mormon to accommodate this new field of science.
Explaining the scientific and theological issues in this debate is Dr. Simon Southerton, a molecular geneticist from Australia. He particularly responds to the issues raised by the BYU professors such as the implications of the mysterious lineage X, absent in Mesoamerica, and supposed anomalies in the genetic picture such as Kennewick Man and even the genetic history of the lowly sweet potato. Having been raised Mormon, Southerton knows the theological side of the issue as intimately as he knows the science.
A
alterserver_07
Guest
I saw the movie, and read other stuff and yet it is all the same. Every sorce says the same thing. If there is more than one God Makers movie, I saw the one that tells you the teachings and the story of the book of mormon. But I still recommend the movie I saw. I think it is different than the one Casen is talking about.
M
Maccabees
Guest
New Mormon Challenge, The (Hardcover)
by Francis Beckwith
Top Protestant scholars debate Mormonism without sensationlistic claims but the facts themselves it presents doctrine of the LDS as is without exageration but does not pull punches in the more eccentric doctrines It gives the LDS a fairshake where non-Mormons have exagerrated claims.
Book Description
Written by an international team of respected Christian scholars, this freshly researched rebuttal of Mormon truth will aid those sharing the gospel with Mormons and those investigating Mormonism on their own. It will help readers to accurately understand Mormonism through biblical, historical, scientific, philosophical, and theological discussions.
New Mormon Challenge, The
by Francis Beckwith
Top Protestant scholars debate Mormonism without sensationlistic claims but the facts themselves it presents doctrine of the LDS as is without exageration but does not pull punches in the more eccentric doctrines It gives the LDS a fairshake where non-Mormons have exagerrated claims.
Book Description
Written by an international team of respected Christian scholars, this freshly researched rebuttal of Mormon truth will aid those sharing the gospel with Mormons and those investigating Mormonism on their own. It will help readers to accurately understand Mormonism through biblical, historical, scientific, philosophical, and theological discussions.
New Mormon Challenge, The
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flameburns623
Guest
Two by non-LDS:
Joseph Smith’s Response to Skepticism, Robert N. Hullinger, Signature Books, 1992
Religious Seekers and the Advent of Mormonism, Dan Vogel, Signature Books, 1989.
Several from LDS sources. I really advise people NOT to spend too much time only reading anti-LDS stuff–it is difficult to find material which doesn’t include at least some mistakes or which is poisoned by the author’s biases against the LDS Church. If you read anti-LDS material–try to read at least two books by Mormons on the same subject for every ONE book by an ‘Anti’–it will help you keep perspective. Not every pro-LDS book has to be apologetic in nature, but it should help you gain a better grasp of how the same ideas look from ‘inside the head’ of practicing LDS, which is always a help in dialoguing with members of other faith-traditions. Catholic apologists used to be pretty good at this but I haven’t seen the contemporary Catholic apologists show themselves quite so adept at bridging theological paradigms as in the past. Please note that I am NOT LDS, nor Roman Catholic, myself:
The Articles of Faith by James Talmage
Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage
**A Marvelous Work and a Wonder **by LeGrand Richards
The House of the Lord by James Talmage (Talmage is a classic LDS writer, greatly revered).
**Church History in the Fulness of Times **distributed by the LDS Church (Church Distribution)
Gospel Principles Church Distribution
An Approach to the Book of Mormon by Hugh Nibley
The Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H Roberts (another much-revered classic LDS apologist–who is rumored to have suffered doubts about his Mormon faith in his declining years, btw).
Encylopedia of Mormonism (Not suggesting anyone read the whole set but selected articles as needed)
**The Work and the Glory **Gerald Lund (9-volume fictional account of Joseph Smith–good intro to LDS history).
You’ll find many of these in a public library or available there via inter-library loan. A local LDS Ward library may also lend you some of them as well. (A ‘Ward’ is roughly equivalent to a Catholic parish). And offer to lend you gobs of others. No need to buy them all nor to read them all: you simply want to gain real insight into the mind and spirituality of Mormonism. These, plus the LDS ‘Standard Works’ (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, along with the King James Bible) will give you plenty of grasp of basic Mormonism.
Just making the effort to learn will help keep dialogue open. If all you do is read ‘anti-Mormon’ stuff and regurgitate this back to your Mormon acquaintances–you’ll hit the shoals of irresolvable disagreement pretty quickly. Especially when you stumble across something which is clearly inaccurate and/or hateful in it’s presentation. The Mormons will spot the inaccuracies immediately and ‘mark’ you mentally as someone who is simply uninterested in knowing the truth about their faith. They will usually cease giving you a hearing, and often they won’t bother even to pretend to listen
Over and beyond this I heartily advise people to read and study orthodox Christian doctrine and learn how to explain it to others and answer the most-common objections raised. Far better to learn the attributes of the authentic than to try to recognize every possible manifestation of the counterfeit.
Joseph Smith’s Response to Skepticism, Robert N. Hullinger, Signature Books, 1992
Religious Seekers and the Advent of Mormonism, Dan Vogel, Signature Books, 1989.
Several from LDS sources. I really advise people NOT to spend too much time only reading anti-LDS stuff–it is difficult to find material which doesn’t include at least some mistakes or which is poisoned by the author’s biases against the LDS Church. If you read anti-LDS material–try to read at least two books by Mormons on the same subject for every ONE book by an ‘Anti’–it will help you keep perspective. Not every pro-LDS book has to be apologetic in nature, but it should help you gain a better grasp of how the same ideas look from ‘inside the head’ of practicing LDS, which is always a help in dialoguing with members of other faith-traditions. Catholic apologists used to be pretty good at this but I haven’t seen the contemporary Catholic apologists show themselves quite so adept at bridging theological paradigms as in the past. Please note that I am NOT LDS, nor Roman Catholic, myself:
The Articles of Faith by James Talmage
Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage
**A Marvelous Work and a Wonder **by LeGrand Richards
The House of the Lord by James Talmage (Talmage is a classic LDS writer, greatly revered).
**Church History in the Fulness of Times **distributed by the LDS Church (Church Distribution)
Gospel Principles Church Distribution
An Approach to the Book of Mormon by Hugh Nibley
The Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H Roberts (another much-revered classic LDS apologist–who is rumored to have suffered doubts about his Mormon faith in his declining years, btw).
Encylopedia of Mormonism (Not suggesting anyone read the whole set but selected articles as needed)
**The Work and the Glory **Gerald Lund (9-volume fictional account of Joseph Smith–good intro to LDS history).
You’ll find many of these in a public library or available there via inter-library loan. A local LDS Ward library may also lend you some of them as well. (A ‘Ward’ is roughly equivalent to a Catholic parish). And offer to lend you gobs of others. No need to buy them all nor to read them all: you simply want to gain real insight into the mind and spirituality of Mormonism. These, plus the LDS ‘Standard Works’ (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, along with the King James Bible) will give you plenty of grasp of basic Mormonism.
Just making the effort to learn will help keep dialogue open. If all you do is read ‘anti-Mormon’ stuff and regurgitate this back to your Mormon acquaintances–you’ll hit the shoals of irresolvable disagreement pretty quickly. Especially when you stumble across something which is clearly inaccurate and/or hateful in it’s presentation. The Mormons will spot the inaccuracies immediately and ‘mark’ you mentally as someone who is simply uninterested in knowing the truth about their faith. They will usually cease giving you a hearing, and often they won’t bother even to pretend to listen
Over and beyond this I heartily advise people to read and study orthodox Christian doctrine and learn how to explain it to others and answer the most-common objections raised. Far better to learn the attributes of the authentic than to try to recognize every possible manifestation of the counterfeit.
R
RoodAwakening
Guest
Not having the time to do much in-depth study of Mormonism on my own, I purchased a copy of Mormonism for Dummies, by two professing LDS, almost as soon as it was published. The publisher did such a decent job finding two great authors for Catholicism for Dummies–an excellent introduction to the Catholic faith–that I hoped it would do the same with the LDS book, too.
Has anyone else read Mormonism for Dummies? Can you give me your “take” on it?
Thanks!
Has anyone else read Mormonism for Dummies? Can you give me your “take” on it?
Thanks!
R
RoodAwakening
Guest
Yes, this principle is similar to one technique by which cashiers and bank tellers are trained to recognize counterfeit cash: by handling the real thing all day long during their training period, they learn to take notice when something “feels wrong.” Further testing then determines whether the cash is authentic or not.
B
BJRumph
Guest
In a rare show of agreement with Casen; I agree, the Godmakers is a joke as far as getting any kind of useful knowledge about the mormons, even if all you are looking for is anti-mormon support.
The logic used, analysis of scripture, and overall product is so faulty that the only thing it convinced me of is that anti-mormons are idiots.
Granted, I read it only a couple months after my lds baptism (over nine years ago now); but the only thing that I could not readily shoot down were the historical articles. But now, even those I feel confident in being able to refute as they are often based on editorial peices from newspapers of the time, or other sources of dubious reliability as “historical” evidences. “Yes, a story bad-mouthing Smith and making various sensational claims was printed in this paper; what does that prove exactly? Are historical newspapers somehow more dilligent in researching editorial peices for fact than they are now?”
Frankly, the Godmakers did more to bolster my fledgeling mormon faith than to hurt it.
Stick with Flame’s list if you are truly trying to research the religion, though I am not entirely sure that a 2:1 ratio is really necessary, but that is just my opine.
The logic used, analysis of scripture, and overall product is so faulty that the only thing it convinced me of is that anti-mormons are idiots.
Granted, I read it only a couple months after my lds baptism (over nine years ago now); but the only thing that I could not readily shoot down were the historical articles. But now, even those I feel confident in being able to refute as they are often based on editorial peices from newspapers of the time, or other sources of dubious reliability as “historical” evidences. “Yes, a story bad-mouthing Smith and making various sensational claims was printed in this paper; what does that prove exactly? Are historical newspapers somehow more dilligent in researching editorial peices for fact than they are now?”
Frankly, the Godmakers did more to bolster my fledgeling mormon faith than to hurt it.
Stick with Flame’s list if you are truly trying to research the religion, though I am not entirely sure that a 2:1 ratio is really necessary, but that is just my opine.
J
Jerusha
Guest
Very good question. I think Sharp pretty published everything he came across. And the exmo board gets very negative at times. The Latter-Day Lampoon gets downright offensive at times.
A
alterserver_07
Guest
I guess since so many people think that the god makers is so bad, I will not recomend it anymore. I will have to watch the movie again and see if I agree with the bashing. It has been a while for me since I have seen it, so I will get my opinion from it now.
C
Casen
Guest
Victor,
Go to www.fairlds.org and type “Godmakers” into the search engine and you’ll find about a dozen articles that tear it to shreds.
Anyone that has actually been to an LDS temple, even ex-Mormons that no longer believe in the church, will tell you the movie bares little resemblance to what actually happens in the temple.
M
majick275
Guest
Godmakers is absolute propaganda. Full of outright lies.
If you want some really interesting reading on this subject (these are multi volume collections) doctrines of salvation by Joseph fielding Smith and the Journal of Discourses will be very educational.
Mormon doctrine by bruce Mconkie is always useful.
on the non-LDS side the changing world of mormonism by sandra and jerald tanner is useful (just be careful to read enough of their sources to avoid taking things out of context…they make that mistakes sometimes)
If you want some really interesting reading on this subject (these are multi volume collections) doctrines of salvation by Joseph fielding Smith and the Journal of Discourses will be very educational.
Mormon doctrine by bruce Mconkie is always useful.
on the non-LDS side the changing world of mormonism by sandra and jerald tanner is useful (just be careful to read enough of their sources to avoid taking things out of context…they make that mistakes sometimes)
A
amgid
Guest
Why not try out the official LDS websites:
www.lds.org
www.mormon.org
www.josephsmith.net
amgid
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