Looking for a little advice from strangers

[CCM08]

Normally I’d go with my wife’s advice, but in this case I don’t think her really blunt approach will work. Here’s the problem, I have a cousin in her 20’s (26), who constantly complains that she can’t find dates, or as she says, “a good man.” The reality is lot’s of good guys ask her out, she just rejects them because she has unrealistic expectations. She’s an average looking girl, and normally a pretty good personality save for judgement in men it would seem. She thinks that unless a guy is an “ultra hunk” male model and earns a 6 figure salary he’s not a “good man.” So instead of going out with the really decent guys that ask her she pines away for these men that probably don’t even know she exists. For example a couple weeks ago I introduced her to a buddy of mine that plays hockey with me. He’s got a decent job installing for Lowe’s hardware and there’s nothing wrong with his apperance. Personally, I think worrying too much about stuff like this is a recipe for unhappiness but I get that not everyone thinks that well. Well he ask her out and for no real reason she shot him down. It’s a formula we’ve repeated several times.

Anyway, how would you (or would you at all) approach her about these unrealistic expectations in men? I tried approaching this with a little Stoic and Christian philosophy, happiness coming from communion with God, accepting things as they are, and approach life in a realisitic fashion. While she seemed interested I don’t think she understood that I was directly referring to her. I want to help, just sort of at a loss with how to approach this.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

She thinks that unless a guy is an “ultra hunk” male model and earns a 6 figure salary he’s not a “good man.”

Yeah, except when your “ultra hunk” reaches 60, and he’s got a belly and tons of lovable wrinkles, what then?

Sure, he could earn 6 figures, but it won’t mean a darn thing if he won’t be generous with his treasure (maybe not even “share” with the wife). What happiness comes from having tons of wealth?

Wow… As a 26 year old, married mother of 2 (so far!), I cannot comprehend this mentality. It’s just so bizarre to me. Are those her only 2 qualifications for marriage material? If so, I would say she is most certainly not ready for married life! Perhaps she needs more time to discern this vocation.

It would probably be a decent idea to make a list of “desirables” in a guy, and then rank them, #1 being the most important and uncompromisable. I had a mental list of sorts, in high school (yeah, I know, I was young, but I was praying in junior high that I’d find my spouse in school so I wouldn’t have to date after college – and it worked). I did this exercise with my sister, who’s 3 years younger than me, and it helped her organize herself. I also pointed out the kinds of things she wanted from life, versus the guys she kept choosing to date. She was being inconsistent and causing herself a lot of stress. I hate to be too rational , but she was expecting to feel “butterflies” with every potential boyfriend, and expecting those butterflies to last. Sorry, sis, I got news for ya. Sometimes people’s expectations aren’t practical (that’s not to say you should have to “settle for less”), but if they’re complaining about it, they may not realize the impracticality of their standards.

What was your wife’s blunt suggestion, out of curiosity?

 

[CCM08]

I’ll admit a certain disconnect with popular culture, being 25 and married is enough to do that to you. I’ve just assumed that the attitude comes from that being the normal expectations of most women. I think she’s ready to start towards being married, it’s just a matter of getting her over everything she learned in college and from her friends about what she “deserves” in a man. I like your list suggestion by the way. Might go that way.

To answer your question, my wife thinks I ought to just tell her that her expectations in men are foolish, materalistic, and unrealistiic. In short, get overself. Largely I agree with her, but we live in a very ego centric world and I really do think a lot of women and men these days are becoming materialistic to the point where “good looks” and “lots of money” are the requirements to be dating material. I don’t know if being so direct and confrontational is going to do much to establish dialogue on why these expectations are misguided.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

I don’t know if being so direct and confrontational is going to do much to establish dialogue on why these expectations are misguided.

I agree, as tempting as this approach may be , I think your cousin may simply dismiss you and not want to talk about it. When I did The List with my sister, it gave us several things to discuss, debate, and simmer over. We both felt we were being listened to. All of this, of course, assumes she’ll comply with your request to draft a list, and not think you’re being dumb or childish.

I’m sure you’ll have plenty of other opinions and brilliant ideas from other posters, once the sun comes up!

 

[the_phoenix]

To answer your question, my wife thinks I ought to just tell her that her expectations in men are foolish, materalistic, and unrealistiic. In short, get overself. … I don’t know if being so direct and confrontational is going to do much to establish dialogue on why these expectations are misguided.

While I can see where your wife is coming from, because this issue is definitely important enough to speak about directly, I might suggest phrasing things a little differently. As in, focusing on the more important expectations in men that have repercussions both in time and in eternity:

1. Does he love God and put God first?
2. Is he pro-life and welcoming of any children the Lord wishes to send?
3. Will he spiritually support his wife in the goal of married people which is for each one to ensure that the other will get to Heaven?

You can add to the list, I’m sure.

Also, I would personally leave out the “get over yourself” part … them’s fighting words, as some would consider it!

Best regards,

~~ the phoenix

 

[Chickie]

Hi Poster, is your cousin just looking for a date or a marriage partner? I’d suggest the former from what I’ve read. If she just wants to have fun with a guy then all I could suggest would be to practise having a much more positive attitude - even to a man who is “unsuitable”! . She may not realise that having an analytical and negative approach to men will not be very attractive.

However, if she says that she’s looking long-term then ask her whose marriages she admires. She might pick her parents, neighbours, you and your wife! I think that the answer for her long-term prospects is to examine the relationships around her that appear to really work. Then she’ll hopefully notice by herself that money and looks have nothing to do with a strong relationship.

 

[puzzleannie]

Anyway, how would you (or would you at all) approach her about these unrealistic expectations in men? I tried approaching this with a little Stoic and Christian

I would not even try, especially with a relative. She probably has a hidden reason for rejecting eligible men than she may not even be aware of, may even need counselling, and until she deals with it, not much will change. There is nothing to be gained by telling a relative how to make choices and live their life, other than responding to a direct question when asked for your beliefs and opinions, and living in a way that reflects your values. My daughters dated such losers in HS I thought they could not recognize a good man if they saw one walking down the street, but both married fine Catholic men whom we are proud to call sons, but they are nobody you would vote for on Idol.

 

[Katie1723]

If it were me, I would not try fixing her up with anyone. Let her wallow in her own self pity for a while .
Kathy

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

If it were me, I would not try fixing her up with anyone. Let her wallow in her own self pity for a while .
Kathy

I agree. If she does not seem to be open to “other” men, then what would make you think that she would be open to listening to your opinion?

Not being rude, that is just the first thing that popped into my mind.

 

[OldAgeGuru]

I would basically stay out of it. I’ve been in her position before. And here’s the thing

I’m 26 currently, and I have a bachelors, one completed Masters Degree, and another one I am halfway through. I am considering going on to pursue a PhD over the next few years. If someone I was related/close to set me up with a guy who does installation for a hard ware store, I would have rejected it too. He may have been a nice guy, he may have a good work ethic, but to me, it shows lack of ambition.

I don’t mean that he doesn’t have the ambition to make 1 million a year, but to me, working at home depot isn’t a career choice I would find acceptable. Go to a trade school, learn carpentry, plumbing, get a skill set that you can use in the future to actually earn money on your own, take a business class at the community college whatever, but do something to make yourself marketable and not just employee 11467233

 

[pink]

She’s an average looking girl, and normally a pretty good personality save for judgement in men it would seem. She thinks that unless a guy is an “ultra hunk” male model and earns a 6 figure salary he’s not a “good man.” .

If she is an average looking girl shooting down regular guys for an ultra hunk that makes 6 figures, doesn’t she realize that those ultra hunks are shooting down average looking girls for girls that are ultra gorgeous that are making good livings as well?

 

[jrabs]

Leave it alone. I know your heart breaks for her, but it is something she needs to learn on her own.

She also needs to make choices on her own. She lacks maturity, but you telling her how to mature isn’t going to sink in. It may just upset and alienate her.

You must understand that your choices for her are not her choices for her.

 

[BlestOne]

I am going to have to go with stay out of it unless she specifically asks for YOUR advice. If she does, ask her to make a list of the essentials, then the nice to haves and finally the no way in he** attributes she is looking for in a man. If she comes up with a list full of superficial stuff like looks and income, look at the list and say wow, my list just had loves God, Loves me, loves children…(add anything else you want but keep it spiritual). She may decide all on her own that her priorities are messed up.

 

[Enoch]

An unrealistic expectation of others is a sign of having a fear of commitment. If she only pines away for men she can’t have, she can’t get hurt. There may also be some deeper self-esteem issues going on. She may be afraid is she got dumped by an “average” guy it would just be too devastating to her self-image. Has anything like this ever happened to her before?

 

[LSK]

If someone is constantly complaining about something to you I believe you should be willing to say, 'I am so sorry you feel that way. Perhaps there is something you could do to learn about how to find a good husband. Have you tried reading the book…" and then recommend something from the EWTN Website or CA Website that deals with preparing for marriage.

 

[saramichelle6]

This could be seen as a double-edged sword. I was always taught to never lower my standards and never settle for less than what I want. If her “standards” are a little … off … however, it could be seen as a problem. I went on one date with a guy that had everything I ever wanted … wasn’t exactly the MOST beautiful guy
I’d ever seen … but I fell in love immediately and now I think he’s the cutest guy in the world. Tell her to give some guys a chance.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

I don’t mean that he doesn’t have the ambition to make 1 million a year, but to me, working at home depot isn’t a career choice I would find acceptable. Go to a trade school, learn carpentry, plumbing, get a skill set that you can use in the future to actually earn money on your own, take a business class at the community college whatever, but do something to make yourself marketable and not just employee 11467233

Just to point this out, but a the installers for Lowes / Home Depot have learned a trade, and great many of them have certifications in their fields. They are craftsmen / contractors, not clerks.

 

[whatevergirl]

Normally I’d go with my wife’s advice, but in this case I don’t think her really blunt approach will work. Here’s the problem, I have a cousin in her 20’s (26), who constantly complains that she can’t find dates, or as she says, “a good man.” The reality is lot’s of good guys ask her out, she just rejects them because she has unrealistic expectations. She’s an average looking girl, and normally a pretty good personality save for judgement in men it would seem. She thinks that unless a guy is an “ultra hunk” male model and earns a 6 figure salary he’s not a “good man.” So instead of going out with the really decent guys that ask her she pines away for these men that probably don’t even know she exists. For example a couple weeks ago I introduced her to a buddy of mine that plays hockey with me. He’s got a decent job installing for Lowe’s hardware and there’s nothing wrong with his apperance. Personally, I think worrying too much about stuff like this is a recipe for unhappiness but I get that not everyone thinks that well. Well he ask her out and for no real reason she shot him down. It’s a formula we’ve repeated several times.

Anyway, how would you (or would you at all) approach her about these unrealistic expectations in men? I tried approaching this with a little Stoic and Christian philosophy, happiness coming from communion with God, accepting things as they are, and approach life in a realisitic fashion. While she seemed interested I don’t think she understood that I was directly referring to her. I want to help, just sort of at a loss with how to approach this.

AW—she’s young. I think she will ‘grow’ out of it. She may really be frightened of dating, and this is her way of sabotaging any potential situation that comes along. Just a thought.

 

[CCM08]

I would basically stay out of it. I’ve been in her position before. And here’s the thing

I’m 26 currently, and I have a bachelors, one completed Masters Degree, and another one I am halfway through. I am considering going on to pursue a PhD over the next few years. If someone I was related/close to set me up with a guy who does installation for a hard ware store, I would have rejected it too. He may have been a nice guy, he may have a good work ethic, but to me, it shows lack of ambition.

I don’t mean that he doesn’t have the ambition to make 1 million a year, but to me, working at home depot isn’t a career choice I would find acceptable. Go to a trade school, learn carpentry, plumbing, get a skill set that you can use in the future to actually earn money on your own, take a business class at the community college whatever, but do something to make yourself marketable and not just employee 11467233

I don’t really want to insult you, but frankly I’ve got two bachelors degrees, both of which turned out to be totally worthless, and the fact is with universities the way they are a cocker spainel could get a degree. I’m in human resources, we decide if the person is an idiot or not during the interview. Another cousin of mine owes DU over 90,000 dollars getting a law degree. He works 70+ hour weeks and makes a whopping 30 grand a year. He can’t buy a house (my friend owns his own home), can’t afford a decent car, in fact after paying his student loan payments he’s barely got enough to pay rent on a rat hole studio apartment in Lakewood and eat.
In my friend’s defense, he has gone through trade school (and I envy him), he’s a journyman electrician (required for the job as complicated rewiring is often neccessary when redoing an entire kitch) and is an artist with wood. He plans to have his own shop some day, but the reality is there are steps to that process. The high end cabinet shops won’t hire you until you have a substantial portfiolo. If you haven’t worked for a high end cabinet shop you don’t have the neccessary client list to start a shop.

You ever think that maybe, just maybe, judging people based on what they do says a lot more about what kind of person you are then what kind of people they are?

 

[CCM08]

I am going to have to go with stay out of it unless she specifically asks for YOUR advice. If she does, ask her to make a list of the essentials, then the nice to haves and finally the no way in he** attributes she is looking for in a man. If she comes up with a list full of superficial stuff like looks and income, look at the list and say wow, my list just had loves God, Loves me, loves children…(add anything else you want but keep it spiritual). She may decide all on her own that her priorities are messed up.

I’m hearing this, the list thing seems to be good. While she hasn’t point blank ask my opinion, I tend to think her choice to complain to me about it is a way of asking advice. We’ve been close every since we were little kids. I don’t know my other cousins all that well, and would look at that as just staying out of their business. For whatever reason I just feel responsible for her, like a sister thing I guess.