Looking for a traditional perspective on something

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coolduude

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Hi there,

I consider myself more of a conservative, traditional Catholic. I like the Latin Mass (though I’ve never attended) and all things ‘old-school’ 😛 I need perspective from other traditionalists on a certain issue.

My school provides for a Kairos (the word is supposedly Greek for “God’s time”) retreat. They were started in the 1970s I believe and have grown in popularity ever since. They are shrouded in secrecy. For more information, please visit the Wikipedia page on Kairos retreats. Anyway, I was wondering what you guys think of them. Are they too ‘new’, or are they ‘acceptable’? What is your opinion on them? What’s your opinion on youth retreats like this in general? What is some perspective?

If clarification is needed, please ask 🙂

Thanks,
Coolduude
 
The retreat is usually led mostly by the peers of the participants.[1] For the high school retreats, the team is composed of both seniors or juniors who have already made the retreat and a few faculty from the school. The difference between Kairos and other retreats is that it focuses mostly on helping one find his or her own personal relationship with God during a few days of discerning and discovery.
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  1. Allowing the seniors to lead the retreat is kind of like the blind leading the blind. They may be well intentioned, but one false piece of information can by damaging.
  2. They’re going to discover a personal relationship with God over the course of a few days? What does that even mean really? The only time I ever hear people say “my personal relationship with God” is from someone who is not Catholic and wants to enjoy eternal bliss without having to earn it.
I’d stay away, but only my opinion.

Edit: Let me add that I don’t personally have anything against teenagers wanting to grow in their faith. I just take issue with teenagers leading teenagers. I hope there’s some type of experienced, qualified person around to correct one of the teen leaders if they are blatantly wrong.
 
damooster said:
  1. Allowing the seniors to lead the retreat is kind of like the blind leading the blind. They may be well intentioned, but one false piece of information can by damaging.
  2. They’re going to discover a personal relationship with God over the course of a few days? What does that even mean really? The only time I ever hear people say “my personal relationship with God” is from someone who is not Catholic and wants to enjoy eternal bliss without having to earn it.
I’d stay away, but only my opinion.

Edit: Let me add that I don’t personally have anything against teenagers wanting to grow in their faith. I just take issue with teenagers leading teenagers. I hope there’s some type of experienced, qualified person around to correct one of the teen leaders if they are blatantly wrong.
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Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I see what you mean. I’ve never been on Kairos, but I don’t think there are other leaders to correct mistakes. I mean, for the junior retreat, there was an ex-priest at an invalid Communion Service; he never said a word.

For those wondering where the quote came from, it was here (the Kairos Wikipedia page).
 
I agree with the advice offered – especially from a conservative - traditional Catholic perspective. The best way would be to have the retreat led by a priest. With Ignatian retreats, they begin by preparing you to reflect on your life and then get ready for confession (then the resurrection is at the end).

At the same time, depending on who is involved with this retreat you mention, it could be a good thing also. I think it’s a great idea to have a youth retreat, if the focus is truly on spiritual growth and if it’s not dumbed-down (like many Catholic-youth activites are, sadly).

It might be worth looking into this more and to find out if a priest will participate (I would think you’d have to have Mass). If it doesn’t seem right, maybe you can find a better opportunity in another parish youth program?
 
As with any retreat, it depends on the individuals who are involved in the planning and execution. As a retreat philosophy, Kairos is wonderful. It is lead by individuals who have experienced the retreat, with guidance from clergy and other youth/young adult ministers. Each individual school that offers Kairos follows a basic form, and it is the witnesses of the individuals leading that particular weekend retreat that make it unique.

I have to say, my Kairos experience was amazing, and lead me to the Ignatian Exercises (which the Kairos retreat is loosely based on - it was started in Jesuit schools) and helped to jump start my journey into a deeper relationship with Christ and His Bride, the Church.
 
Thanks, you two, for the answers.

I was talking with a girl who already went on Kairos to learn how to be a youth leader. I told her I was into the Latin Mass and things of that sort; I told her I was not into ‘touchy-feely’ retreats. She got defensive and essentially said that if I like the Latin Mass I would like Kairos.

However, Kairos seems suspicious to me. Too ‘touchy-feely’ and too new. The Catholic Church has such a rich history. Dig into that instead of going off (potentially) loose or wrong theology.

Anyone else see it this way? Any other views?
 
Traditional Ignatian retreats are silent and penitential. They’re very far from touchy-feely.
I think you’d like one of those, if only they were available somewhere.
 
I also don’t agree with mixed boy-girl retreats especially for youth. In the example you gave, (I’m not sure if it works like this) - a girl spiritual retreat leader for the boys is not going to work. To really benefit from the retreat you have to be able to set-aside self-consciousness and have some freedom from that.

There are a lot of the new-Catholic experimental ideas (touchy-feely things) which never worked at all for me during high-school. That was way back in the '70s, but a lot of the new ideas were launched back then, and most of it proved to be failed-experiments.

But then the problem remains … instead of just avoiding the weak spiritual programs that are available, can you replace them with a better alternative?
 
coolduude said:
Thanks, you two, for the answers.

I was talking with a girl who already went on Kairos to learn how to be a youth leader. I told her I was into the Latin Mass and things of that sort; I told her I was not into ‘touchy-feely’ retreats. She got defensive and essentially said that if I like the Latin Mass I would like Kairos.

However, Kairos seems suspicious to me. Too ‘touchy-feely’ and too new. The Catholic Church has such a rich history. Dig into that instead of going off (potentially) loose or wrong theology.

Anyone else see it this way? Any other views?
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If I’m not mistaken, I participated in one of these – or something quite similar-sounding – in the '70s or early-'80s. That was a while ago, obviously, but my recollection of it was that it was “creepy” (for lack of a better word). Vaguely, I remember people who didn’t really know what they were doing trying to conduct (as others have referred to them) “touchy-feely” exercises that left me wanting to disappear in my chair(!) Whatever the case, youth leading youth seems to me a BAD idea. (No offense.) I wouldn’t consider myself qualified to lead a high school group in such a setting; what makes a senior in high school fit for the job?

If the overarching goal is to find your own personal relationship with God, there are obviously many proven ways to accomplish that, which don’t require attendance at somewhat questionable (ex-priests?!?) youth retreats. How about attending Mass daily? Saying the Rosary? Praying the Liturgy of the Hours? Forging relationships with priests and nuns in your parish? Reading the Bible – and traditional commentary?

(You know, I just realized that I said I wouldn’t consider myself qualified to give this kind of advice and then launched right into it! Sorry :o )

I do think I am qualified to advise you to be generally cautious, here, however. As you may have gathered from reading this forum, there are factions of the Church that are really no longer on board with all of this “reactionary traditionalism.” Haven’t been in decades. And these folks believe they are just as “right” as we believe we are. And they will try to influence you – just as we will 😃 Stay close to genuine sources of Church integrity (the present Holy Father is certainly not a bad place to start!) and listen carefully to the Holy Spirit. If you do, I can guarantee that you will not be misguided.

Be well!
 
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