Looking for Adam

[grannymh]

Yes. All of us are Adam and Eve to varying levels of seriousness but with the help of our Holy Mother, we become, well, self-giving motherly and fatherly sons and daughters who tend to Him as she did.

I put in bold a bold denial of who Adam is.

Would you believe that I was opening the computer to make sure that readers knew that the media example in post 16 is pure anti-Catholicism.

God intended representatives?

From the media quote in post 16.
(. … The man and woman of Genesis … are intended to represent an Everyman and Everywoman. They are paradigms, figurative equivalents, of human conduct in the face of temptation, not lessons in biology or history.) is so opposed to multiple Catholic teachings that I cannot imagine …

All of us are not Adam and Eve to varying levels of seriousness

Adam is truly lost.

 

[friardchips]

I put in bold a bold denial of who Adam is.

Would you believe that I was opening the computer to make sure that readers knew that the media example in post 16 is pure anti-Catholicism.

God intended representatives?

From the media quote in post 16.
(. … The man and woman of Genesis … are intended to represent an Everyman and Everywoman. They are paradigms, figurative equivalents, of human conduct in the face of temptation, not lessons in biology or history.) is so opposed to multiple Catholic teachings that I cannot imagine …

All of us are not Adam and Eve to varying levels of seriousness

Adam is truly lost.

I think you misunderstand. Sorry…

We are all Adam and Eves. They were our first parents, and like parents like children. So they were our first parents but we are also imitation Adam and Eve’s until we find goodness and completion in the Cross and Resurrection. Or He finds us. Both. From old to new. Lost and found. Yes, we are complete imitations of Adam and Eve. Maybe I should have used the word “imitation”. We truly inherit the Original Sin of Adam and Eve. But this still cannot be discovered by trying to place Adam and Eve into a literal reality without taking the spiritual reality as first place.

And it is not anti-Catholic to believe that we are all Adam and Eves in this sense. Every time we fall from grace, if we do, we repeat the same selfish acts of our parents, except more serious because we know what we’re doing, and why. It is through our Holy Mother that the Lord brings us back to a sanctified state. The thing is, is that these things are true, but your source does miss out, that Adam and Eve were really our first parents also.

Adam is not lost yet.

 

[friardchips]

I think it was a mistake for me to share such things online and have learnt my lesson for the future. :sad_yes: I should not have been so casual and wanton with spiritual reflections. Forums are not the right environment for discussing mystical realities. If there ever is a right place. I am very annoyed with myself for having led you astray by participating.

Wishing you a blessed Advent.

 

[friardchips]

Take care.

 

[grannymh]

Adam is not lost yet.

As I read the information in your posts, I am thinking that what is lost about Adam is knowledge about who he really is. When authors publically mislead people, like the author in post 16, it is very hard to discern the actual errors in such nice sounding explanations of those first three chapters of Genesis.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Fundamental Catholic Doctrines on Creation

1. Creation is a work of the holy Trinity (CCC 290-92)
2. The World was created for the glory of God (293)
3. God created the world from his free will and divine love (295)
4. God created the world ex nihilo (“out of nothing”) (296-99)
5. God created an ordered and good world (299)
6. God transcends creation and is present to it (300)
7. God upholds and sustains creation at every moment (301)
8. God’s providence guides creation towards its perfection (302-305)
9. God gives his creatures free will to share in his providence (306-308)
10. If Creation is good, why does evil exist? (309)
    a. Reality of physical evil (310)
    b. Reality of moral evil (311)
    c. God can bring good out of an evil (312-314)

Source: Brant Pitre’s “Genesis and the Book of Moses”

 

[grannymh]

What I don’t understand is how Original Sin could exist because of mythology? The mythos of Genesis is just a story, probably handed down through oral tradition until finalized in text. Catholicism is not fundamentalism; as Catholics understand that much of scripture is Allegorical–meaning that what it says in scripture may or may not be the correct account of things. If it is not the correct account of things then how could we know for sure that the current state of humanity is related to any “fall of Adam”?

Much of Genesis is comparable to ancient Babylonian religion/mythos; such as the flood. How are we to know that what we attain in scripture is not in fact another account of Babylonia mythos?

I mean the word Adam in Hebrew means “male human being”. The story could be talking about any human being, not some guy named Adam. Anyways, I believe the world to be too diverse, having theoretically spread out everywhere over 6000 years from one single man. It just seems that racial characteristics would take more than 6000 years of the bible to develop.

I think all that theologians* have going for them in scripture is not the proof of original sin; but rather, the typological-intertextuality that compares Jesus to Adam, even if Adam really didn’t exist, neither the story of Genesis as an actual account of actual things that occurred.

*All that theologians have in Genesis, the beginning of…

There are many valid concerns here, especially the opening sentence – “What I don’t understand is how Original Sin could exist because of mythology?”

My first suggestion is to go back to post one and think about the second and third truths. How do they apply to the beginning of humankind on planet earth?

1. God as Creator interacts personally with each individual human.
2. Every individual human has the inherent capacity to interact with God as Creator.
   Point 2 comes from Genesis : 27

27
God created mankind in His image;
in the image of God He created them;
male and female* he created them.
God is pure spirit. Being in His image refers to our own spiritual soul. This makes us capable to interact with our Creator. We can respond to this truth and interact with God through knowledge and love.
Point 3 comes from the beginning of paragraph 356, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition

**356 **Of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”. He is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake”, and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life.

When there are questions about Original Sin, the first place to find true answers is in the first three chapters of Genesis where we find Adam. Obviously, the Hebrew author of these chapters would know about Babylonia legends. Obviously, he would know about the pagan gods. Obviously, he knew about the triumphs of his people.

And, most important, he knew the truths of the dawn of human history and was able to differentiate between them and other “stories” handed down from ancestors. Do “stories” get changed? Absolutely. However, going back to point 2 above, we can trust our God to keep the “stories” intact as they happened. Going back to point 3, we can trust that the human origin “stories” were kept intact with the power of the rational soul.
My own journey to find Adam starts with Genesis 1: 1.

1
In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth

to be continued…

 

[grannymh]

The reason I keep referring to the original relationship between Adam and his Maker is because, as you said, Adam was not divine.

God gave His only Son… because Jesus is Divine and Adam is not Divine.

The connection between Jesus and Adam is that Adam is not divine; therefore he could not repair the shattered original relationship which God had created. Destroying humanity’s relationship with God is known as the Original Sin. The connection is that Jesus stood in place of Adam and thus He, being Divine, could repair the Divine relationship whereas Adam could not.

God gave His only Son, so that the relationship between humanity and Divinity could be restored. Jesus is True Man and True God and thus, He alone could restore by His obedience that which Adam lost by his disobedience.

Note to Simpleas and others.

The reason I over emphasized the fact that Adam is not divine is that, to my knowledge, no one has mentioned the fact that the depth of difference between the Creator and His creature is a key element of Original Sin. To my knowledge, no one has openly linked Original Sin to the key requirement for the original relationship between Creator and creature. In my humble opinion, the reason that Original Sin is attacked is that the wealth of information about the original relationship is not being used.

In post 27, I see that the solution to finding the true Adam is to start at the beginning. Therefore, it is important to learn post 26 by fisherman carl.

We should look at God as the main, prominent person, in the first three chapters of Genesis. Looking for Adam is second.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Because the figurative language denotes a spiritual place in time or space in which the fabric is relational love, and so it is, that with the use of the language of love, the Truth can be described in such a way that it threads all of Creation into a rooted design of which can only be understood with enlightened insight looking back - Christological illumination; thus proving that the Creator was the Author of this artistry.

The exegit understands that the Holy Spirit inspired these works. There were many reasons these accounts could have been written - layers upon layers of reasons, but such is the Divine Genius of our Creator, that He can provide for all, in all times. There can be practical reasons and spiritual reasons, but what we can guarantee, is that there is always meaning, because the Creator is the Meaning - He is.

People in Biblical times, and preceding, would have had far superior memories. Take the stories of Homer, for example, pre-dating Christianity - these were recited. This is so unbelievable to us now but these were actually learnt and recited. These cultures were story-telling cultures. It is probably true that many Biblical Jews knew their Scriptures inside-out. How and when to some degree doesn’t matter because prophecy is so very discernible from Holy Scripture that we know it contains the truth in whatever form. Such dedication for learning is hard to fathom because religion in the West is not studied with the same degree of meticulousness.

I think there seem to be similarities in some of the stories. And maybe ideas switched. But we know looking back that if we were to try and find the same rootedness in Babylonian stories, for the NT, we might find a little symbolic something but nothing of any magnitude. I think it more likely that stories were passed down through the generations, preceding the Babylonian Exile. Some say they were written during the priestly traditions after the Babylonian Exile, as celebrations of freedom.

Some say that the Bible ‘contains’ the Word of the Creator. In terms of misprints, there would have to be examples. The starting point for any serious exegete will begin: “Now is this true?”, rather than, “Is this false?”. (I think St. Augustine said this). The Scribes who collated the Holy Scriptures and the scholars who interpreted them poured hour upon hour - this was their whole life - into making sure the interpretations were accurate. Again, this is hard to fathom, this level of meticulousness, but all was done in prayer and grace. These Scriptures were not just nice writings, these Holy Scriptures were venerated - in Dei Verbum, we are told that we are to hold such writings as sacred - because Scripture was and is the collective memory of a holy peoples, the prayer-filled roller-coaster journey through hundreds of years of passionate love expressed in relationship with a Creator who was experienced by people to be revealing Himself to them as the one and only Creator, and who seemed to guide them through rough waters - this journey was the very path that guided their suffering and ordeals into a purposeful narrative.

There is pure discovery to be had when it comes to applying methods. I only just got going before I didn’t feel the need to continue. The expression of the people in love with the Creator are of what the Hebrew Scriptures witness to. You don’t have to feel fundamentalist to believe in miracles and the Hebrew Scriptures are full of them. Whether allegorical, literal, poetry, praising song format, a psalm etc, etc…all we have to do is remember that all of it was a collectively lived prayer, because in the light of the Holy Spirit, all is prayer. I think of the relational love between us and the Creator starting from Genesis as a kind of song. A dance. A rhythm. Of love. All is prayer.

There have been misprints throughout the age. Just do a little research and you will discover this to be true.

What bible do you read above all others? The prose from one bible to the next alters perception of its context. Are you saying that God intended this to be a true reality. For what reason did God do this, in your opinion? Why would God want to alter perception from one text to the next text of scripture? I think you wed the supernatural guidance of man’s hand to his imperfection and then say it was ordained by God. Me on the other hand, knows man is imperfect and perfectly natural rather than supernatural.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

There have been misprints throughout the age. Just do a little research and you will discover this to be true.

What bible do you read above all others? The prose from one bible to the next alters perception of its context. Are you saying that God intended this to be a true reality. For what reason did God do this, in your opinion? Why would God want to alter perception from one text to the next text of scripture? I think you wed the supernatural guidance of man’s hand to his imperfection and then say it was ordained by God. Me on the other hand, knows man is imperfect and perfectly natural rather than supernatural.

What of the Holy Spirit accounts for two contradictory stories of Creation within Genesis, at its beginning? Do you think the Spirit of Truth operates in a way that is figurative rather than corporeal? What of the truth is figurative? What is its basis in reality when it is figurative? How could you know for certain that something figurative is indeed tangible by the flesh?

 

[friardchips]

There have been misprints throughout the age. Just do a little research and you will discover this to be true.

What bible do you read above all others? The prose from one bible to the next alters perception of its context. Are you saying that God intended this to be a true reality. For what reason did God do this, in your opinion? Why would God want to alter perception from one text to the next text of scripture? I think you wed the supernatural guidance of man’s hand to his imperfection and then say it was ordained by God. Me on the other hand, knows man is imperfect and perfectly natural rather than supernatural.

Hi. I have backed out of this discussion for personal reasons related to my belief. But in short, to answer your two questions: first, the amount of varying modern (and sometimes weak translations) is annoying and so I’d say some translations are more inspired than others (if this is what you meant); second, rather it is that I recognise the power of the Holy Spirit who can inspire any man or woman to complete things far beyond his or her capability or capacity to express love in any form and by any means - the Creator completes the incomplete and makes possible the impossible. Take care.

 

[grannymh]

May I gently remind everyone that it is the Catholic Church, according to its proper protocol as Christ’s visible institution on earth, which duly defines and properly declares its doctrines based on God’s Divine Revelation and guided by the wisdom of the promised Holy Spirit in major ecumenical Catholic Church Councils.

Heavens to Betsy! What are the problems with the first three chapters of Genesis?

Could someone be kind enough to give me the words which have some, not all, people in a tizzy? Please note that not every verse in every chapter automatically becomes a Catholic doctrine. Usually, the meaning of these verses are not required for gaining entrance to heaven.

Link to Bible
usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm

 

[grannymh]

We should look at God as the main, prominent person, in the first three chapters of Genesis. Looking for Adam is second.

Honoring God, as the source of all good, is exactly what the author did in Genesis 1:1. It is what Catholics do every Sunday when we profess the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. Here, as in the first three chapters of Genesis, there are no various interpretations which depart from the truth taught by the Catholic Church.
From post 3, thread “The Inspired Word of God?” Sacred Scripture Forum, forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13501591&postcount=3
Suggestion is to read the whole post.

‘In short, what is essentially guaranteed to be true by virtue of divine inspiration, according to the sentence of Dei Verbum, 11, we are considering, is not the isolated propositions taken in their ‘surface’ meaning and without regard to their historical and literary context, but rather (as the next article of Dei Verbum puts it) “that meaning which the sacred writers really intended, and which God, by their words, wanted to make known.” 55 The discernment of that divine and human meaning is what the Church understands by a proper ‘literal’ interpretation of the text - which is not to be confused with a ‘literalist’ interpretation.” ’

This “meaning” or “intent” is discerned with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Chapter 14, Gospel of John.
These questions from post 30 need some answers.
“What of the Holy Spirit accounts for two contradictory stories of Creation within Genesis, at its beginning? Do you think the Spirit of Truth operates in a way that is figurative rather than corporeal? What of the truth is figurative? What is its basis in reality when it is figurative? How could you know for certain that something figurative is indeed tangible by the flesh?”
Question: "What of the Holy Spirit accounts for two contradictory stories of Creation within Genesis, at its beginning?
My apology. I know that the idea of two contradictory stories of Creation has been discussed in other threads, but my poor granny memory does not recall the specific verses which are considered the first story. Unfortunately, no one has posted the specific problem in response to post 32.

Honoring God as the Creator of all is the intent of Genesis 1: 1-25. Honoring man as the pinnacle of God’s creation is the intent of both Genesis 1: 26-27 and Genesis 2: 7

Question: Do you think the Spirit of Truth operates in a way that is figurative rather than corporeal?
The only way I know is that the Spirit of Truth operates in a Divine manner.

Question: What of the truth is figurative?
This question is a tad backwards. Objective truth exists independently from the way humans describe it.

Question: What is its basis in reality when it is figurative?
Similar to the answer above, truth is solid. It does not start out being figurative.

Final question: How could you know for certain that something figurative is indeed tangible by the flesh?
First, I would have to know what that something is. Second, I would have to know the intent of using figurative language. Because “something” is extremely broad, in my humble opinion, this question cannot be answered by me.

 

[simpleas]

The reason I keep referring to the original relationship between Adam and his Maker is because, as you said, Adam was not divine.

God gave His only Son… because Jesus is Divine and Adam is not Divine.

The connection between Jesus and Adam is that Adam is not divine; therefore he could not repair the shattered original relationship which God had created. Destroying humanity’s relationship with God is known as the Original Sin. The connection is that Jesus stood in place of Adam and thus He, being Divine, could repair the Divine relationship whereas Adam could not.

Good gave His only Son, so that the relationship between humanity and Divinity could be restored. Jesus is True Man and True God and thus, He alone could restore by His obedience that which Adam lost by his disobedience.

Good gave His only Son, so that the relationship between humanity and Divinity could be restored. Jesus is True Man and True God and thus, He alone could restore by His obedience that which Adam lost by his disobedience.

Yet O.S still exists. It is so frustrating for me that I have trouble connecting the dots when someone says Jesus restored what Adam lost.

Adam. Eve and the rest of the human race are not Divine as in God Divine,and so none of us would ever be able to repair that original relationship with the Divine, the Divine knew this, yet we are spiritual beings capable of living as good a holy life as we see is fit and pleasing to God from what we know through others as they believed and so on.

 

[simpleas]

Originally Posted by friardchips

Adam is not lost yet

Then why did you say God goes after the lost sheep?

 

[grannymh]

Yet O.S still exists. It is so frustrating for me that I have trouble connecting the dots when someone says Jesus restored what Adam lost.

Adam. Eve and the rest of the human race are not Divine as in God Divine,and so none of us would ever be able to repair that original relationship with the Divine, the Divine knew this, yet we are spiritual beings capable of living as good a holy life as we see is fit and pleasing to God from what we know through others as they believed and so on.

Try starting with the bold in post 34 as the first dot. When we are looking for Adam, this truth is essential.
"we are spiritual beings capable of living as good a holy life as we see is fit and pleasing to God"
This important truth comes from Genesis 1: 27. What would you consider as the second dot?

 

[simpleas]

Yet O.S still exists. It is so frustrating for me that I have trouble connecting the dots when someone says Jesus restored what Adam lost.

Adam. Eve and the rest of the human race are not Divine as in God Divine,and so none of us would ever be able to repair that original relationship with the Divine, the Divine knew this, yet we are spiritual beings capable of living as good a holy life as we see is fit and pleasing to God from what we know through others as they believed and so on.

What did Jesus restore that Adam lost?

My answer : Grace, and life everlasting after death.

Adam being only a spiritual being, not yet divine, could not repair the original relationship with the creator, Jesus was the only one who could do this, because he came from the creator.

ok.

So in my thinking, when Jesus restored the original relationship with the creator, O.S no longer exists. Jesus was Divine, he did what he was sent to do, no longer is the Divine relationship damaged.

We are all Adam and Eve

This is interesting, because I think of it like this. If we are all born with the Original sin, usually most of us are baptised as babies, and so O.S is wiped away, of course we are still only spiritual beings, not Divine, and so we grow and learn, make mistakes, and of course we can seriously turn away from God, although there could be various reasons in our lives why this can happen, God knows this, but will never turn away from us.

And so like A&E we can make a choice.

Like you said there are many interpretations about the O.S, I suppose it’s because we want to understand the reasons for human life, our faults and failings as humans, but also our goodness.
I don’t see any good ness in the story of A&E from their part, I can see God as love, but we have nothing to go on that shows goodness/love with A&E, and these are the first two humans created good and holy.
What then is the difference between A&E and us? We can’t put adam up on a pedestal and then tear him down as the cause of our human faults.

Also I am thinking that Jesus came to teach about suffering, Jesus is classed as the new Adam and Our Lady the new Eve.

My rambles have started! Thanks for reading, any (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated, discussion is always worthwhile to me.

 

[grannymh]

Here, there are certainly a lot of good points, including some which need a bit of clarification, which can follow up on the first point in post 36.
“We are spiritual beings capable of living as good a holy life as we see is fit and pleasing to God.”

What did Jesus restore that Adam lost?

My answer : Grace, and life everlasting after death.

Grace, in the sense of sharing in God’s life, depends on our natural free will. Both Adam and ourselves can freely choose to scorn God and thus destroy our own state of Sanctifying Grace aka Adam’s state of Original Holiness.

Life everlasting after death? I am not sure how that fits in with the teaching that as long as Adam remained obedient to God, he would not have to suffer or die. (CCC 376) Apparently, the goal of the Beatific Vision could be obtained by obedience without death. What am I missing?

Adam being only a spiritual being, not yet divine, could not repair the original relationship with the creator, Jesus was the only one who could do this, because he came from the creator.

ok.

Yup. But I would suggest using this point later when we connect the dots as suggested in post 36.

So in my thinking, when Jesus restored the original relationship with the creator, O.S no longer exists. Jesus was Divine, he did what he was sent to do, no longer is the Divine relationship damaged.

The obedience of the True God and True Man restored the broken relationship between humanity and Divinity; however, the consequences remained for the spiritual being and his descendants. (CCC 405)

We are all Adam and Eve

This is interesting, because I think of it like this. If we are all born with the Original sin, usually most of us are baptised as babies, and so O.S is wiped away, of course we are still only spiritual beings, not Divine, and so we grow and learn, make mistakes, and of course we can seriously turn away from God, although there could be various reasons in our lives why this can happen, God knows this, but will never turn away from us.

And so like A&E we can make a choice.

Unfortunately, being “like A&E we can make a choice” is **not **the same as the statement We are all Adam and Eve.

Are you really truly the first woman in the human species? If you are, then you are definitely older than I am.

That is not a trick question. “We are all Adam and Eve” is the marching flag for one of the many groups who want to change the Catholic Church – to topple it from the inside, rebuilding a modern church according to their personal preferences.

I realize that very few people currently understand the reference to stealth Arianism.

Like you said there are many interpretations about the O.S, I suppose it’s because we want to understand the reasons for human life, our faults and failings as humans, but also our goodness.
I don’t see any good ness in the story of A&E from their part, I can see God as love, but we have nothing to go on that shows goodness/love with A&E, and these are the first two humans created good and holy.
What then is the difference between A&E and us?

Basically the Garden of Eden. Yet, both post-Fall Adam and ourselves have a wounded nature.

We can’t put adam up on a pedestal and then tear him down as the cause of our human faults.

I need clarification of human faults. Does this refer to the human fault that I cannot carry a tune in a tin pail? Or does it refer to human sins, sometimes called faults? Human nature never lost its free will.

Also I am thinking that Jesus came to teach about suffering, Jesus is classed as the new Adam and Our Lady the new Eve.

Definitely, Jesus teaches us about suffering. Good point. It leads to one of the connecting dots between the suffering of Adam post-Fall and our suffering.
We need to study Adam’s suffering (Genesis 3: 10) in order to recognize the need for a promised Redeemer in Genesis 3: 15. Not any redeemer/prophet, but one Who establishes a visible Church on earth.

My rambles have started! Thanks for reading, any (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated, discussion is always worthwhile to me.

 

[simpleas]

Originally Posted by grannymh

Life everlasting after death? I am not sure how that fits in with the teaching that as long as Adam remained obedient to God, he would not have to suffer or die. (CCC 376) Apparently, the goal of the Beatific Vision could be obtained by obedience without death. What am I missing?

I’m not sure if we are on the same page when we are thinking about what Jesus did when he restored the relationship between God and Man.

*Catholic Dictionary

Term

LIFE EVERLASTING

Definition

The eternal life of heavenly glory, in body and soul, promised by Christ to those who die in God’s friendship.*

I wasn’t thinking of any dictionary definition when I wrote life everlasting along with grace, I was recalling the Apostles creed :

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

1. And the life everlasting. Amen.

Of course the teaching has it that Adam and Eve were immortal and they could have stayed that way through obedience as you said.

Unfortunately, being “like A&E we can make a choice” is not the same as the statement We are all Adam and Eve.

Are you really truly the first woman in the human species? If you are, then you are definitely older than I am.

Very good GrannyMH, I might not be the first ever human, but I’m the first ever me!

When I think about the We are all Adam and all Eve, I wasn’t thinking literally of course, but in that we, if freed from O.S, although not immortal, we are promised ever lasting life after our bodily deaths, yet we too like the first two, can turn from God.

Basically the Garden of Eden. Yet, both post-Fall Adam and ourselves have a wounded nature.

Why the garden of Eden? Because it is described as a “Heaven on earth”? I’m not sure the garden ever existed on this earth, then again it could have been washed away during the flood.

I need clarification of human faults. Does this refer to the human fault that I cannot carry a tune in a tin pail? Or does it refer to human sins, sometimes called faults? Human nature never lost its free will.

The fault like this :

I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin, all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.

My fault, not Adam or Eve’s, because we are not the cause of the fault (O.S) yet we acknowledge our human weakness and faults.

 

[simpleas]

Originally Posted by grannymh

Definitely, Jesus teaches us about suffering. Good point. It leads to one of the connecting dots between the suffering of Adam post-Fall and our suffering.
We need to study Adam’s suffering (Genesis 3: 10) in order to recognize the need for a promised Redeemer in Genesis 3: 15. Not any redeemer/prophet, but one Who establishes a visible Church on earth.

There is probably a lot that would go into this, so I leave it for now.

Thanks.