Looking for advanced subjects

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Daniel_Marsh

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Frankly, I am bored with the Mary, Mass, Authority debates. I am looking for advanced topics like invincible ignorance, partaking of the divine nature, theosis, II Peter 1 “making one’s salvation sure”, and anything else of this level that us protestants don’t normally think about. What do you all have to offer?

When you start an “advanced” thread, please start off with links to the related documents, scriptures, church father documents, CC and so on before starting the discussion.

Thanks
Daniel
 
Just curious Dan… when you say you are bored :yawn: , does that mean you now accept the Catholic teaching on that topic, or that you now just reject it regardless?

If you do, when will you be coming home?:hmmm:😉

If you don’t, why move on to “advanced” subjects ? :confused:

Would you accept an invitation to Mass. I would be more than happy to drive to Grotto…
 
Neither of above.

Frankly, with all the censorship, deletions, moving threads around, etc., catholic responses on this board are nothing more than parrot like in nature and that is boring. I am more interrested in seeing how people think, then what they think, thus by moving on to higher levels of doctrine, I am hoping to see a free exchange of creative ideas.

And, no I am not interrested in attending Mass at this time.

Thanks for asking.
 
From Origen’s book on the Song of Songs pp. 25-26
“The thing we want to demonstrate about these things is that the Divine Scriptures make use of homonyms; that is to say, they use identical terms for describing different things. And they even go so far as to call the members of the outer man by same names as the parts and dispositions of the inner man; and not only are the same terms employed, but the things themselves are compared with one another.”

II Corinthians 2: 14 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward [man] is renewed day by day (KJV).

Romans 7: 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (KJV)

Ephesians 3: 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; (KJV)

Origen believes that the inner man was created in the image and likeness of God.
Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them (KJV).

Origen believes that the outward man is explained in Genesis.
Genesis 2: 7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (JKV).

Origen believes that the inner man has ears, eyes, mouth, nose, womb, heart, and many other parts. He believes that the outer man’s parts are named from or after the inner man’s parts.

Our physical heart is named after our inner heart or spiritual heart. “Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

Our physical ears are named after our inner ears or spiritual ears. “Hear, O Israel.”

Our physical eyes are named after our inner eyes or spiritual eyes. “Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? “ (KJV)

Our physical thirst is named after our inner thirst. “Come to me all of you who are thirsty.” “Blessed (happy) are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.”

Again, from Origen’s book on the Song of Songs pp. 25-26
“The thing we want to demonstrate about these things is that the Divine Scriptures make use of homonyms; that is to say, they use identical terms for describing different things. And they even go so far as to call the members of the outer man by same names as the parts and dispositions of the inner man; and not only are the same terms employed, but the things themselves are compared with one another.”
 
Origen teaches that there is spiritual puberty.

His Song of Songs page p. 22: “But it behoves us primarily to understand that, just as in childhood we are not affected by the passion of love, so also to those who are at the stage of infancy and childhood in their interior life…”
 
Origen’s Song of Song’s p.26-27: “It is perfectly clear; and I think nobody should doubt that John calls these people children or lads our young men or even fathers according to the soul’s age, not the body’s. Paul too says somewhere: “I could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto little ones in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not meat.” A little one in Christ is undoubtedly so called after the age of the soul, not after that of the flesh.
 
From Origen’s Song of Songs page 29: “And the soul is moved by heavenly love and longing when, having clearly beheld the BEAUTY and fairness of the Word of God, it falls deeply in love with His loveliness and receives from the Word Himself a certain dart and wound of love.”

Psalm 27: 4 GOD IS BEAUTIFUL.
 
Origen’s Song of Songs p. 62:
And let us understand that by the ‘mouth’ of the Bridegroom is meant the power by which He enlightens the mind and, as by some word of love addressed to her—if so she deserve to experience the presence of power so great—makes plain whatever is unknown and dark to her. And this is the truer, closer, holier kiss, which is said to be granted by the Bridegroom—Word of God to the Bride—that is to say, to the pure and perfect soul; it is of this happening that the kiss, which we give one to another in Church at the holy mysteries, is a figure.
As often, therefore, as we find some problem pertaining to the divine teachings and meanings revealed in our heart without instructors’ help, so often may we believe that kisses have been given to us from the Bridegroom—Word of God.
 
Absolute Beauty (God is Beautiful)
Exodus 33: 18 Then Moses said, “Do let me see your glory!” 19 He answered, "I will make all my beauty pass before you, and in your presence I will pronounce my name, ‘LORD’; I
who show favors to whom I will, I who grant mercy to whom I will.
Psalm 27: 4 One thing I ask of the LORD; this I seek: To dwell in the LORD’S house all the days of my life, To gaze on the LORD’S beauty, to visit his temple.
 
There seems to be four levels or acts of prayer.

GOD
  1. Contemplation (and it has level or acts)
  2. Affective
  3. Thinking prayers or Meditation
  4. Hearing or reading the Holy Bible
Levels of Scripture
  1. Angogical
  2. Moral
  3. Allegorical
  4. Literal and historical
Again,is there a connection between the four levels of Scripture and the four acts of prayer?

Thanks!!!
 
Look on the Eastern Christianity Forum, or for Catholic-Orthodox debates. While there is some element of “authority” debate, even that is much more “advanced” in nature than the typical Catholic-Protestant dialogue you’ll come across. That’s because the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox already accept the authority of Tradition and the Fathers, so it gets into the real nitty-gritty.

Eastern and Western theology also differs with regards to Grace, theosis, Original Sin, you name it. While both sides are orthodox, studying the differences can be a real challenge in understanding the “deeper” elements of the Faith, and how crucial each little definition can be.

The only word of warning I have is that it can be overly challenging, both intellectually and spiritually. Only engage in it if you’re really solid in your Faith and the Church.

Peace and God bless!
 
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