Looking for answers from Muslims...

[elwill]

I was just curious if Islam had an explanation as to why they/you believe a Loving and Good God would create a propensity toward sin in His creation, particularly since God does not want us to sin.

jay , you are the one who insert this concept " propensity " , , all what i meant is that human commit sins , the problem isn’t about commiting a sin but it’s about insist in it . it’s exactly as you believe , didn’t you believe that all humans commiting sins .
sometimes you argue that jesus is God because he is sinless , right ?

(That’s part of what original sin is about for Catholics. We believe that Adam & Eve were created without sin, but obviously with free will. Through Adam & Eve’s fallen nature (resulting from the original sin - disobedience to God in the Garden of Eden) we inherit that propensity to sin.)

for me , i believe that each human be created without sin ( exactly as adam & Eve ), but obviously with free will they commiting theire own sins in their life , and no one inherit his father’s sin

 

[Jay53]

jay , you are the one who insert this concept " propensity " , , all what i meant is that human commit sins , the problem isn’t about commiting a sin but it’s about insist in it . it’s exactly as you believe , didn’t you believe that all humans commiting sins .

I used the word “propensity” because you said “commiting a sin is a nature in our humanity” - which basically means the same thing. But I don’t believe that it was in Adam & Eve’s “nature” to commit sin as it is in ours. Their abuse of free will in their disobedience of God is what resulted in our ‘human nature to commit sin’ - thus why they were cast out of the Garden of Eden and why we are not allowed into Heaven until we have been purified. I don’t believe God originally created us with a ‘human nature to commit sin’.

I wasn’t trying to bait you or anything. I was just curious about the Islamic belief.

sometimes you argue that jesus is God because he is sinless , right ?

Wrong. You have it backwards. Jesus was sinless because He is God.

for me , i believe that each human be created without sin ( exactly as adam & Eve ), but obviously with free will they commiting theire own sins in their life , and no one inherit his father’s sin

Then I misunderstood what you meant by saying that “commiting a sin is a nature in our humanity”.

 

[seraphime2008]

It seems that someone’s ability to deal with other argument should be that he/she firstly deals with his/her ability to understand his own argument…

 

[elwill]

I wasn’t trying to bait you or anything. I was just curious about the Islamic belief.

i know you jay , it’s not the first time i conversate , i respect you much

Then I misunderstood what you meant by saying that “commiting a sin is a nature in our humanity”.

do you believe that their are sinless humans ?

may be the answer of this question will declare the misunderstanding we have with each other ,

 

[Kadaveri]

Male vs. Female; Wealthy vs. Poor etc are not the same as Good vs. Evil. God is Good. He also proclaimed His creations “very good” (Genesis in the OT).

I was just curious if Islam had an explanation as to why they/you believe a Loving and Good God would create a propensity toward sin in His creation, particularly since God does not want us to sin.

(That’s part of what original sin is about for Catholics. We believe that Adam & Eve were created without sin, but obviously with free will. Through Adam & Eve’s fallen nature (resulting from the original sin - disobedience to God in the Garden of Eden) we inherit that propensity to sin.)

This doesn’t really mean anything, since surely God created Adam and Eve with free will in the knowledge that they would sin.

 

[Jay53]

i know you jay , it’s not the first time i conversate , i respect you much

Thank you. I respect you, too.

do you believe that their are sinless humans ?

may be the answer of this question will declare the misunderstanding we have with each other ,

No.
(Other than Jesus - but I believe He was both fully God and fully man.)

 

[Jay53]

This doesn’t really mean anything, since surely God created Adam and Eve with free will in the knowledge that they would sin.

God knowing that they would sin does not negate their free will and the fact that they could choose to sin or choose not to sin. Nor does it mean that God created them with a propensity to choose sin. They could just as easily have resisted Satan and his lies and trusted in God instead.

 

[elwill]

do you believe that their are sinless humans ?

No.
(Other than Jesus - but I believe He was both fully God and fully man.)

that’s exactly what i meant by “commiting a sin is a nature in our humanity”.

anyway , i seek new questions now . i think that the the both positions are clear enough

 

[Jay53]

that’s exactly what i meant by “commiting a sin is a nature in our humanity”.

anyway , i seek new questions now . i think that the the both positions are clear enough

OK. I still don’t understand your position, though. Just because none of us are sinless now, I don’t believe we were originally created that way. Adam & Eve were sinless before they disobeyed God - and I don’t believe they had in them the “nature” to commit sin before they did and were cast out of the Garden of Eden. Like I said earlier - that’s part of what “original sin” means to Catholics.

Hopefully others will have some new questions for you.

 

[elwill]

OK. I still don’t understand your position, though. Just because none of us are sinless now, I don’t believe we were originally created that way. Adam & Eve were sinless before they disobeyed God - and I don’t believe they had in them the “nature” to commit sin before they did and were cast out of the Garden of Eden. Like I said earlier - that’s part of what “original sin” means to Catholics.

Hopefully others will have some new questions for you.

you described the part in Adam and Eve side , i agree with you in that part

i think that our differs are raised in the human’s part

while i believe that every human is sinless untill they commit a sin ( exactly as Adam)
but you believe that the humans are birthed with their father’s sin
is that close enough ?

 

[Jay53]

you described the part in Adam and Eve side , i agree with you in that part

i think that our differs are raised in the human’s part

while i believe that every human is sinless untill they commit a sin ( exactly as Adam)
but you believe that the humans are birthed with their father’s sin
is that close enough ?

No, not one’s father’s sin (unless you just meant original sin/sin of Adam by that - just clarifying that it has nothing to do with our biological parents’ or ancestors’ sins).

Just “original sin” which includes the “propensity” to commit sin - that’s what gives us the “nature to commit sin” and is why we are not in the Garden of Eden. If we are all completely sinless at birth as Adam was when he was created then we should be in the Garden of Eden/Paradise/Heaven until we commit our own sin.

 

[meedo]

Thank you for your answers.

The next question is:

According to the Qur’an when you sin, you sin against yourself. We see that in the verse posted by Sam_777 in Quran 6:164. However there are a few unforgiveable sins that are directed at God himself and are offensive to God right? These would be blasphemy, idol worship, etc. Correct me if I am wrong please.

May God Bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand. :hug3:

KS

Ummm… no … All sin is againt God . What this verse means is that the ''consequence ‘’ of the sin is to backfire on the person himself , be it in the form of punishment in the afterlife or on earth or even the removal of blessing. The consequence of the sin does not decrease the value of God or hurt him in any way , sin hurts the sinner.

If you want to classify sins, then there are sins that involves injustice to another bieng and sins that just directed to God. The first is an offence both to God and to your fellow man , the other is only against God. There is no sin that is not an offence to God.

Best regards and thank you for your charity

a muslim