Looking for constructive, compassionate advice on my engagement/relationship

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sanderson1984

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I am in my early twenties and going through a serious issue that is ripping me apart emotionally. I am a convert but I dont practice my faith as often as I should but I believe in the doctrine so I want advice from other Catholics. This is something I cannot go to my family or friends about and I need help.
I am engaged to a wonderful man who is my very best friend. We have been together for 7 years and are supposed to be getting married in a few months. Our relationship has been long, and full of a lot of “baggage” (believe me, its more than a lot) but we have grown from the majority of it. We are only a few months from getting married and recently, we have been talking a lot about not getting married. The baggage and amount of detail I would have to go into to explain why we feel this way seems like it would take forever. Yes, we are cohabiting. I know, in detail, why this is a bad idea. Unfortunately, we are not financially able to live separately and our families are not there for us on that level. Yes, we are having sex. I also, know in full detail how this is detrimental to our future happiness as a married couple. We try very hard not to have sex but it seems to be the one thing we can do together that is always good. Don’t get me wrong, we have more than enough in common so we aren’t together purely because of sex. We are so alike that we butt heads a lot and mis-communicate. But our sexual relationship is consistently good, so i think we fall back on that when other things aren’t going well. I know, mistake, I know. We have been asking ourselves for a long time if we are meant to be married or if we have just been with each other for so long and through so much and depend on each other so much that we feel like we *should *get married. We cannot come to an answer because we both love each other and it would be extremely painful to come to the conclusion that we are not meant for each other. But I dont want to married for the wrong reason or delude ourselves. I need more advice than just “pray on it” Ive heard that more than i can say. Our families and friends all think we are getting married in a few months and we are emotional basket-cases confused on if we are doing the right thing. We recently moved to a totally new state away from everyone and everything we know. We have very hurtful families and depend on each other more than anyone else. We thought moving away would make it easier to work on our relationship, we thought maybe the reason we fight is external stuff. Family, finances, unhappy in our current city. But now that we moved, we are in the worst financial situation of our lives and fighting more than ever. I cant think straight. I just want to do what is best for the both of us. IF anyone can make sense of my ramble and bits of information i would appreciate some advice. I dont have anyone to talk to about this. My local church has one English speaking priest who is booked til mid august. Confession isnt really the place where i have the time to spill my heart out about this issue. My best friend, God love her, is a feminist liberal who just tells my its all my fiances fault. I need help.
 
Have you gone through the pre-maritial counseling the church requires?

I do have to ask why are you getting married right now? It sounds like you aren’t sure - and this isn’t a decision to take lightly.

What if the sex weren’t so great? what would you have left. Because - i will tell you - look at many of the threads that married sites have and if sex were the main bond a couple has, the marriage would not last.

Poor finances certainly are a cause of many - if not most - rifts. But, then again, i ask - why do you need to get married now?

Being in your early 20s and having been dating 7 years ago - while that is commendable - it means that neither of you has likely dated anyone else. It is fairly common to feel like you have missed out at some point.

If it were me - i would find a way to live apart for a couple months. I would find a roommate if i had to. I would try to find a way to not see my girlfriend every day - so i could start to evaluate everything. And if nothing else - it will make you miss each other so much - you won’t be able to wait to be together and married - not a bad thing.

You have both moved to a city that you don’t know anyone - so it may not be easy. But it doesn’t sound like your jobs are so great - so you don’t have to stay. It takes a while to establish yourself and make friends in a new city. When i graduated from college - i moved by myself to a new city. I had no money and no car. I did love my job - but after a few months my boss left - after a year - i hated that city too. And i started looking for a new job - and it wasn’t until i confronted leaving that city that i realized that it was me - and not the city’s fault.

But if you two always have each other, that may preclude you from making other friends. That was one thing i forced myself to do - make friends - lots of them. It wasn’t like the close friends i had in college, but it was something.

Don’t rush into a decision that will affect the rest of your life.
 
Just a quick comment for you to chew on.

It is possible for you to stop cohabitating. You say you can’t afford it, but God says that He doesn’t ask us to do the impossible.

So do what He asks, and He will provide. Maybe that means you have to eat Ramen noodles for three meals a day. Maybe some one unexpected will give you some money or a place to stay rent free. Something will happen, because it is possible to live the right way.

You asked for advice, so here’s mine:
  1. Stop living together.
  2. Stop having sexual relations together
  3. Seperate your finances if they are together as well.
  4. Go to Confession.
  5. Go to Mass.
  6. Repeat # 4 and 5 as often as possible.
  7. Reasses your relationship.
 
I think you may want to post-pone getting married until you work these issues out. There is no need to rush into marriage.

I don’t know what your living situation is like but you might look into moving out, via the “looking for a roommate” section on craigslist. You’ll want to meet with people and evaluate them before moving in with them but many young people do this. When my DH’s roommates bailed on him he put his place up on craigslist as needing a roommate and had five responses in the first week alone. However, if you cannot move apart from one another I suggest you each have your own room. If you are a sharing a one bedroom, simply hang up a blanket or two to seperate the room into two sides. Each of you gets a side and you sleep apart and not together. You respect each person’s room and only go in when invited.

Finances are a difficult thing to deal with. I’m not sure what all expenses you have but I suggest you sit down together, same side of the table, and look at them like a team. Don’t think “My money, your money”. Only “Our money, our bills.” Perhaps you already do this, but it is good to remember. Here is one of my favorite quotes about relationships, only I don’t remember it word for word so I’ll paraphrase, “A relationship is like two legs walking. When you injure one leg the healthy leg does not complain that the injured leg is not pulling their share, you just adjust your stride and keep walking.” Because you are currently living together you need to be two legs walking the same direction. Not just two independent pegs sharing the same space.

As for a new town, look up if they have a local library, or a community center near by. These offer cheap programs and classes for adults to be involved in. This gives you more chances to meet people than just church does. If possible sign up for different classes than each other have so you’ll have new experiences to share about your time apart from one another.

If you’d like specific advice on anything you can feel free to PM me, or if you just want to have a sounding board for your thoughts, I don’t mind listening.

Oh I just remembered. I have a friend who had no free money as she was paying her way through college and didn’t have any money at all left over for rent or any place to live. She put an add in the paper asking if any seniors would let her stay for free at their place and in exchange she would do all the house work as well as cook dinner every night. She found someone who took her up on that right away. The senior lady she stayed with really enjoyed her company and appreciated her help. You might think about doing this.
 
If it was me:
  1. Call the wedding off for the time being.
  2. Stop the sexual component of the relationship at the very least.
  3. Look for other living arrangements/employment if necessary.
  4. Seek some counseling for issues in my family background that have contributed to the current situation.
  5. Take a break from the relationship.
  6. Start to build some kind of support system within your new community. Start with the local crisis center if possible or your local Catholic Charities office. You do not have to be Catholic to seek help from Catholic Charities.
 
You are clearly going through some difficult times. I will keep you in my prayers.

First of all, do you have any children together?

Here is what I read:
sanderson1984 said:
Our relationship has been long, and full of a lot of “baggage” (believe me, its more than a lot) but we have grown from the majority of it.

We are only a few months from getting married and recently, we have been talking a lot about not getting married.

We are so alike that we butt heads a lot and mis-communicate.
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We ALL have more than a lot of baggage. That is the human condition. But with Christ we can find peace even in the midst of all our baggage.

It sounds like you are fighting quite a bit. From the way you speak I would guess that at times it feels like all out war. I wouldn’t be as concerned about why the miscommunications happen as much as I would be concerned about why the fights happen after the miscommunications. Work to make sure that every conflict is reconciled. Seek to understand what is going on as much as you can. If he is upset, find out why. If he is sad, find out why. Men don’t always talk about things that they should. Ask questions anyway.

I would advise deep contemplation upon Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. Understanding a great deal about how Christ loved can help us in imitating his love.

A simple practice that might help you: keep a crucifix in your home. In the mornings when you wake touch or kiss the crucifix and pray “lord, may everything I do today be an act of self-giving love”. There will be days when saying this simple prayer fells like a contradiction. Pray it anyways.
 
april32010 said:
i have to ask,are you also using contraception?
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She probably is. And there is probably a great many more things that she is doing that are not as perfect and loving as they can be. She knows she is wrong. Lets not beat he over the head with every single thing that is not right and instead seek to empower her to live a more holy and grace-filled life.
 
sanderson1984 said:
…We have been asking ourselves for a long time if we are meant to be married or if we have just been with each other for so long and through so much and depend on each other so much that we feel like we should get married…
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Catholics don’t believe in destiny, so you shouldn’t worry about whether you are perfect or “meant” to be together. There will always be issues, and the strength of your relationship is your ability and commitment to work through these issues.

Unfortunately, when you speak about blaming “external circumstances”, this raises a red flag for me. A mature couple can openly discuss their problems, however, my gut instinct is that you and your boyfriend are not quite there yet.

There is no easy solution here. Running into marriage by itself won’t fix these issues, but stewing in them as an unmarried, cohabiting couple isn’t healthy either. However, if you two are truly committed to each other, then marriage will provide you with a better framework to work on your personal and financial issues.

The two of you need to decide if you are committed to each other. If so, you need to marry and work as a team, possibly with the help of a secular marriage counselor since your priest is booked up. If you are not committed, the two of you need to extract yourselves from each other and move on. Either way, however personal counseling may still help with your feelings of being overwhelmed.
 
Yes we have gone through our pre-marriage courses. Like i said in my post, our relationship is so complex and it cant be made sense of without all the baggage that would need to be explained. Ill try to make it brief.
I was unfaithful in the beginning of our relationship. When he found out we broke up. I wanted to get back together with him so badly, I didnt tell him the entire truth and so under false knowledge we “mended” our relationship and got back together. After a year, my fiance proposed to me. During our marriage classes I had this horrible guilt hanging over me while listening to these beautiful Catholic couples talk about what it means to be in a God centered marriage and I broke down and told my fiance that I hadnt been entirely truthful with him. It was devastating for both of us, but definitely for him. We decided to take a break and he moved away for about 8 months. We talked a lot while he was away and mended more wounds and we both missed each other so much so he moved back and we got back together. Its been 8 months since we got back together again and we just still seem to come full circle and argue about the same topics. The arguments, no matter what they are about, always go back to me cheating on him. Or the effects of the cheating and how it makes him feel. I feel horrible. He says he has forgiven me and wants to move forward but I just know that this isn’t the way either of us would have wanted our marriage to begin.
We have intertwined our lives, finances, everything so much its not as simple as “God doesn’t give you more than you can handle” I agree with that statement. We wont die if we dont live together, however, one of us might starve or need to get on government assistance. He is going through a very rough patch of of employment and isnt finding work that could sustain him. He owns the car and I dont have one. If he leaves, he cant pay his bills. If I leave I dont have a way to work that is economical or reasonable. We can however sleep in separate room. And that is something I will suggest to him.
It sounds like most of you are saying we should take a break. I feel like that is probably the best option right now. Its just going to cause a sh*t storm with our families. Like i mentioned earlier they are not compassionate or understanding to us. In fact, they can be very very hurtful and damaging to us. The reason we haven’t gone to them about any of this is because the first time we broke up when I cheated they used that information to belittle us and break down our self confidence. It has definitely had lasting effects on my fiance. If we take a break to re-consider our relationship, i feel like we will have to deal with our families hurting us again. I feel so embarrassed discussing all this, thank you everyone for listening and helping. I do appreciate it.
 
God bless you.

Pray.

Seek the advice of your favorite priest.

Pray.
 
Have you sought counseling? It sounds like money is tight (believe me, I understand how that is), but it sounds like you two could really use some coaching on how to effectively communicate. IF you are going to stay with your fiance, then a therapist can teach you guys how to work your issues out without “fighting dirty” or having the argument end up being world war III. If you decide to take a break for a while (remember, it doesn’t have to be a permanent break), then going to individual counseling to help figure out a game plan for you and exactly what YOU want/need in life will be extremely helpful too. Just make sure you do your homework and find a therapist that will help you FIX your relationship/your issues, not run away from them.

Aside from that, I think if you printed off the quoted reply you made and took it into confession with you, you’d get some great advice from a priest. It sounds like you desperately want to do the right thing here, you’re just not sure what the “right thing” is. A priest will be able to help you with that wayyyy more than any of us can.

God bless you; I’ll keep you and your fiance in my prayers.
 
I have been where you are except with children involved. You say you agree that God doesnt give you more than you can handle, but then you cite complications as being bigger than GOD can handle.

Your complications are no match for GOD. he’s got them beat.

What you want is a guarantee – a contract from GOD-- that everything will be ok. Look to the cross. That’s your guaran. That’s your contract.

Nothing on your list of reasons ( excuses) is bigger than GOD. not all of them together. Your job is obedience. Trust is a fruit of obedience. Obey HIM and trust will come.

So i second Dan Daly’s list, adding #6 from Patricia’s list to finish it up.

Obey first. Blessings come. Trust is the fruit of obedience. Dont sell God short. HE ’ s got you. And none of this is a surprise to HIM.
 
You’ve learned so much the hard way, God bless you. But knowing the truth and acting on it are two different things.

You’re learning through experience just why it is so crucial to refrain from premarital sex. The physical bond, emotions and hormones are all meant to cement a relationship in which the permanent committment has already been made. When that gift is misused in a relationship that isn’t there yet, it makes it brutally hard to discern if the relationship is right or not.

But you said something VERY troubling. You said that sex becomes a refuge because it is the only place where your relationship isn’t rocky. That’s a bad sign. The thrill of the sexual intimacy is NOT enough to sustain a relationship a lifetime. If you are unable to work through conflicts, disagreements and hardships without resort to the bed, this might not be your lifelong spouse. On the other hand, stopping the sexual intimacy now will be even harder and more confusing than maintaining chastity in the first place would have been.

I know you don’t want to be told to pray about it. But the fact is that the fences of morality are there in the first place to keep us from falling off cliffs. Sin makes life harder. Now that you’ve fallen off that cliff and have some spiritual broken bones, it’s going to be tough for a while. But God doesn’t abandon us when we make wrong choices. Get right with Him. Move to the couch immediately, explain to your fiance that you need to get your head on straight without the influence of sex for a while. If you can’t sustain that, find a way to move out while you figure this out. Get to confession. Read and pray every day. Keep the TV turned off. Exercise without music, but use that time to reflect while you sweat. Tell God with your actions and your voice that you need forgiveness and that you want with all your heart to be healed of your brokeness. Part of that is admitting your faults in creating the mess. But once you get past that hard part, the freedom you begin to experience is worth any sacrifice. Clarity, on the other hand, takes time. I pray you are able to find it.
 
Ah geez, these are all good pieces of advice and all hard to swollow. More over, hard to put into practice. However, they are all the truth and the Truth is the only thing that has ever changed my life for the better. So, Ill listen and try. Man, how is wish I had parents who could have taught me these things and saved me some sorrow. But then again, they never had those types of parents so I forgive them.
My brain is tired of the uncertainty, my heart is aching from all the emotional confusion. But last night I told my fiance I think we should at least tell everyone we need to postpone the wedding. We might just tell everyone we are not financially able to go through with the wedding yet. Which is not a lie. But to save ourselves from all the gossip we might just omit the relationship issues for now. Instantly I felt a weight off my shoulders at the idea of not needing to make up our minds in a mere few months.
We are going to talk more about it together this weekend. I also mentioned that we need to stop being intimate because it just muddles everything and we cant think clearly. He agreed with all these things.
I have such a hard time with faith. I have never had anyone to depend on in my life except myself and my fiance so it is hard to “give it up to God” and hope he comes to bat for me. I feel like he gives me more crosses to bear than lifts the weight. I feel sick and tired of Gods confidence in my ability to weather such seemingly impossibly storms! But I honestly have never given consistent prayer and chastity a try. So I think I will discuss all of these things with my fiance this weekend and try to build my relationship with God and maybe it will fix my relationship with my fiance. Please everyone pray for me.
 
sanderson1984 said:
Ah geez, these are all good pieces of advice and all hard to swollow. More over, hard to put into practice. However, they are all the truth and the Truth is the only thing that has ever changed my life for the better. So, Ill listen and try. Man, how is wish I had parents who could have taught me these things and saved me some sorrow. But then again, they never had those types of parents so I forgive them.
My brain is tired of the uncertainty, my heart is aching from all the emotional confusion. But last night I told my fiance I think we should at least tell everyone we need to postpone the wedding. We might just tell everyone we are not financially able to go through with the wedding yet. Which is not a lie. But to save ourselves from all the gossip we might just omit the relationship issues for now. Instantly I felt a weight off my shoulders at the idea of not needing to make up our minds in a mere few months.
We are going to talk more about it together this weekend. I also mentioned that we need to stop being intimate because it just muddles everything and we cant think clearly. He agreed with all these things.
I have such a hard time with faith. I have never had anyone to depend on in my life except myself and my fiance so it is hard to “give it up to God” and hope he comes to bat for me. I feel like he gives me more crosses to bear than lifts the weight. I feel sick and tired of Gods confidence in my ability to weather such seemingly impossibly storms! But I honestly have never given consistent prayer and chastity a try. So I think I will discuss all of these things with my fiance this weekend and try to build my relationship with God and maybe it will fix my relationship with my fiance. Please everyone pray for me.
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You made a bad decision to cheat on your then-boyfriend. He doesn’t seem able to forgive you and keeps bringing it up over and over. He may be doing this out of revenge, or whatever, but it does not bode well for any future that you might have. He may end up holding that over your head for the rest of your married life.

My advice is to take a hard look at your relationship AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. If things NEVER improved, would you want this relationship to proceed to marriage? Do not see this relationship as a project, as something you can “work on,” just look with a tough vision at what is there RIGHT NOW. You have fornicated, you have cheated, he cannot forgive, you have sex and finances that are holding you with this man. If you had all the money you need, would you want to be there? Maybe it’s hard to imagine because you love him and are bonding as a married couple by shacking up and having sex. But take a very hard look at the pain you feel, and imagine it NEVER CHANGING.

People are who they really are. They show you who they are. If they are dysfunctional now, they will be dysfunctional later. Oh, sure, every once in a while, someone has a reason to change, and they do. But you should never count on that. It’s actually pretty rare. More often, people’s bad qualities tend to increase as they get older.

Pessimistic? Maybe. I call it realism, and learning from my own mistakes.

I would urge you to break up, learn how to support yourself and do so, and not have any relationships until you confess and return to the Church. If you have to accept temporary help, do it.
 
How is your relationship not strong? You fight. I fought a lot w/ my husband (simialr sitaution as yours - family etc.) in the beginning. If you love him, can’t imagine life without him and he the same- work the thing out. Stop the sex- get some pastoral counseling and why not plan to wed?

For peopel with rotten childhoods and lots of real stress- fighting is normal. You need to learn to cope- but you can do that together. Do not despiar. Think about what kept you together 7 years despite each of yrru failings. If he’s not abusive, as in using you physically, emotionall and/or spiritually- I’d say you are stalling for no good reason.

God bless.

I am sorry - I just read he supposedly can’t / won’t forgive you…well, that’s ort of BS- then how can he stand to be around you… I suspect he’s miserable for a variety of reasons and can’t change his life) (he thinks) so it’s easy to blam you- over and over. I would make it an ultimatium either he drop it (teh cheating bs) or you break up. I suspect he will grow up.
 
I think I need to clarify what I meant by him bringing up the past cheating. He has definitely forgiven me. But he has expressed to me that the emotional effects and scarring he has from my infidelity makes it hard for him to work through arguments or mis-communications without those feelings of disrespect from my past actions being drudged up. So we are uncertain if this is a good platform to try to build our marriage.

TheRealJuliane: you make a very good point, you shouldnt enter a marriage hoping that people will change because they might not. And yes, we have both expressed to each other that we wouldnt be happy if our relationship stayed exactly the way it is. And it would be worse if we brought the stress of children into it. Thus, another reason we are having doubts.
BUT
bonvivantHermit: Makes a point that brings up why I am so confused. On the one hand I look at things from “TheRealJuliane” perspective and say “Maybe we should end it” But then I analyze it from “bonvivantHermit” perspective as well and say “it is normal to fight. especially for people as emotional as he and i are and with such high amounts of stress for our age and a huge lack of a family support system”

So this is why we are so torn. Which feeling is right?

He and I DO have an amazing connection outside of sex. Im just saying sex is one of the only aspects of our relationship we dont have to work hard at. Our personalities are so similar and we are seriously best friends. If the cheating thing had never happened I think we would be two peas in a married pod with a happy little family. But the effects of cheating are so strong. Wow, had i known then what i know now. Anyway.

Ugh, sorry to go in circles everyone.
 
What you say makes me think that the communication in your relationship could be a lot stronger.

look up “Marriage Encounter”. there will probably be one not to far away form you. They are open to couples who are engaged and due to marry soon. It would be better to attend an original, Catholic one, but many organisations now run these weekends.

Give serious consideration to proper marriage guidance from a catholic marriage - your Priest can point you in the right direction. (Marriage Encounter is not a therapy session, and not intended to be one… but it could be a strong step in opening good channels of communication between you proper counselling on the other hand can identify and address your specific problems)
  1. Everyone (or at least many people) get “Cold Feet” in the months before the wedding. - I know I did.
  2. you describe some significant problems in your relationship that require careful discernment. The last few months before a wedding is probably too much pressure to let you make an objective decision.
 
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