Looking for Eastern Rite Churches in Communion with the Holy See, but, not connected with the USCCB

[rciadan]

Please, I would like a list of all the various Rite within the Catholic Church that;

1. 
   *]Are in Communion with the Bishop of Rome
   *]Are not governed, affiliated with, or influenced by the USCCB
   I think that will get me started. Later I will want more specific information, but I think the question of where to fien that information will answer itself.
   
   Please, I am not looking for a contest of which is better. I am seeking straighforward, unbiased information with which to decide which of these I will apply to transfer my family into.
   
   Thank you in advance.

 

[Woodstock]

That’s easy. All the Churches in the US to my knowledge have representation at the USCCB in some way or another. There are so few, that leaves every remaining Eastern Catholic Church.

We have:
Ruthenian/Byzantine
Ukrainian
Romanian
Maronite
Syro-Malabar
Syro-Malankar
Italo-Albanian
Melkite
Coptic
Any others?

As to transferring your canonical status, you have a much harder road ahead of you.

1. They are in communion and do see the USCCB and American Catholic Churches as valid and equal.
2. You need to attend for a matter of years before transferring.
3. You need to understand the eastern theology and spirituality and be accepting all of it, not rejecting something else.
4. You need to understand that the Eastern Catholic Churches in the US are in a period of growth and reclamation and will look very different as your children grow.
5. You need to understand that abuses against tradition and rubrics happens more in many of the American Eastern Catholic parishes than they do in the Roman Catholic ones, but Latins are unlikely to spot them not being well-aquainted with the eastern history and rubrics.
6. You need to understand the canonical implications on yourself and your family including your children’s later ability to transfer back, fasts and holy days, and more.

This isn’t a decision to be taken lightly or that can be made on paper. You need to have a church home and you need to be familiar with the theology and traditions of the Church you wish to transfer to before even thinking of doing the paperwork.

Oh! And I noticed your age in your profile. If your children are over the age of 14, they won’t transfer with you.

 

[Rolltide]

Well, the Eastern Catholic Churches include:
Coptic Catholic Church
Ethiopian (and Eritrean) Catholic Church
Syriac Catholic Church
Syro-Malankarese Catholic Church
Armenian Catholic Church
Albanian Greek-Catholic Church
Byzantine Greek-Catholic Church
Melkite Greek-Catholic Church
Georgian Greek-Catholic Church
Byzantine Italo-Grieco-Albanian Catholic Church
Belarusan Greek-Catholic Church
Bulgarian Greek-Catholic Church
Russian Greek-Catholic Church
Romanian Greek-Catholic Church
Croatian Greek-Catholic Church
Hungarian Greek-Catholic Church
Romanian Greek-Catholic Church
Slovakian Greek-Catholic Church
Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church
Chaldean Catholic Church
Syro-Malabarese Catholic Church
Maronite Catholic Church

They will be under the administration of their own churches not the USCCB. All are in union with the pope.

HOWEVER… you are only permitted to change rites once in your life, and to get away from the USCCB will NOT be an acceptable reason to transfer. You’d have to demonstrate that you and your family have a genuine preference for the specific nuances of the eastern theology of the particular church you were transferring to. Mind you, you can attend an Eastern Catholic parish all you like without formally transferring.

PS: Everything Woodstock said is true, he just beat me to it.

 

[Woodstock]

HOWEVER… you are only permitted to change rites once in your life, and to get away from the USCCB will NOT be an acceptable reason to transfer. You’d have to demonstrate that you and your family have a genuine preference for the specific nuances of the eastern theology of the particular church you were transferring to. Mind you, you can attend an Eastern Catholic parish all you like without formally transferring.

Yes, yes, yes to everything except the one-time transfer. That was the rule but it isn’t in effect any longer. However, given the poster’s age, familiarity with the Eastern Church or application of the Eastern faith to his life including lack of regular attendance most likely in the 2-3+ years range at an Eastern parish, and reasons for transfer, it is unlikely it would be granted a first time, much less a second.

 

[rciadan]

That’s easy. All the Churches in the US to my knowledge have representation at the USCCB in some way or another. There are so few, that leaves every remaining Eastern Catholic Church.

We have:
Ruthenian/Byzantine
Ukrainian
Romanian
Maronite
Syro-Malabar
Syro-Malankar
Italo-Albanian
Melkite
Coptic
Any others?

As to transferring your canonical status, you have a much harder road ahead of you.

1. They are in communion and do see the USCCB and American Catholic Churches as valid and equal.
2. You need to attend for a matter of years before transferring.
3. You need to understand the eastern theology and spirituality and be accepting all of it, not rejecting something else.
4. You need to understand that the Eastern Catholic Churches in the US are in a period of growth and reclamation and will look very different as your children grow.
5. You need to understand that abuses against tradition and rubrics happens more in many of the American Eastern Catholic parishes than they do in the Roman Catholic ones, but Latins are unlikely to spot them not being well-aquainted with the eastern history and rubrics.
6. You need to understand the canonical implications on yourself and your family including your children’s later ability to transfer back, fasts and holy days, and more.

This isn’t a decision to be taken lightly or that can be made on paper. You need to have a church home and you need to be familiar with the theology and traditions of the Church you wish to transfer to before even thinking of doing the paperwork.

Oh! And I noticed your age in your profile. If your children are over the age of 14, they won’t transfer with you.

Thank you. My children would tranfer with me. They are young. If I transfer, it will be after fully investigating the theology of the particular Rite. I will not be running away so much as finding home. I am aware this can only be done once. I would expect to enter into long and deep descussions concerning every facet of this action. But I must say, the Latin Rite has seemed less and less like where I and my family is supposed to be. We have for years been at odds with the N.O. and would have transferred to the SSPX long ago I think if they were in Communion with the Bishop of Rome. I thank you for your concern.

 

[rciadan]

Well, the Eastern Catholic Churches include:
Coptic Catholic Church
Ethiopian (and Eritrean) Catholic Church
Syriac Catholic Church
Syro-Malankarese Catholic Church
Armenian Catholic Church
Albanian Greek-Catholic Church
Byzantine Greek-Catholic Church
Melkite Greek-Catholic Church
Georgian Greek-Catholic Church
Byzantine Italo-Grieco-Albanian Catholic Church
Belarusan Greek-Catholic Church
Bulgarian Greek-Catholic Church
Russian Greek-Catholic Church
Romanian Greek-Catholic Church
Croatian Greek-Catholic Church
Hungarian Greek-Catholic Church
Romanian Greek-Catholic Church
Slovakian Greek-Catholic Church
Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church
Chaldean Catholic Church
Syro-Malabarese Catholic Church
Maronite Catholic Church

They will be under the administration of their own churches not the USCCB. All are in union with the pope.

HOWEVER… you are only permitted to change rites once in your life, and to get away from the USCCB will NOT be an acceptable reason to transfer. You’d have to demonstrate that you and your family have a genuine preference for the specific nuances of the eastern theology of the particular church you were transferring to. Mind you, you can attend an Eastern Catholic parish all you like without formally transferring.

PS: Everything Woodstock said is true, he just beat me to it.

Again, when I transfer it will be for positive reasons rather than negative. I will admit though that it is the negative that has made me realise that there is a more orthodox rite that must be more correct than the Latin. I just need to do the research and find which one that is.

 

[rciadan]

However, given the poster’s age, familiarity with the Eastern Church or application of the Eastern faith to his life including lack of regular attendance most likely in the 2-3+ years range at an Eastern parish, and reasons for transfer, it is unlikely it would be granted a first time, much less a second.

What do you mean by “lack of regular attendance”? Once I find which direction to go my attendence will probably be more regular than most. You also do not know of my reason for transfer. All you know of (maybe) is the most recent events that have become the catylist.

 

[Woodstock]

Thank you. My children would tranfer with me. They are young. If I transfer, it will be after fully investigating the theology of the particular Rite. I will not be running away so much as finding home. I am aware this can only be done once. I would expect to enter into long and deep descussions concerning every facet of this action. But I must say, the Latin Rite has seemed less and less like where I and my family is supposed to be. We have for years been at odds with the N.O. and would have transferred to the SSPX long ago I think if they were in Communion with the Bishop of Rome. I thank you for your concern.

I’ll say a prayer for your and your family’s journey!

If you are currently inclined to the strongly Latin theology and spirituality exhibited through the Traditional Latin Mass, you are going to have to undertake a lot of prayer and discernment to find a spiritual home in an Eastern Catholic parish. You might prefer the new TLM under the Moto Proprio which is quickly growing in the US. The Eastern Liturgy is also growing and in so doing is moving away from Latin traditions that have been placed in it. If you are inclined to Latin theology and spirituality, you will likely find yourself in the same position of unrest 10 years from now but within the Eastern Church instead. I strongly encourage you to work within your own Church to help its renewal. All you need is one priest and 5 or so other families to get a regular TLM going if you don’t already have one close-by. I remember reading some news articles like this about the TLM flourishing in Florida, so you probably already do.

It looks like your only Eastern Catholic parishes are Ruthenian/Byzantine. That eparchy might also undergo some massive changes if someone like Bishop John is appointed as Bishop Andrew’s eventual successor.

 

[Woodstock]

What do you mean by “lack of regular attendance”? Once I find which direction to go my attendence will probably be more regular than most. You also do not know of my reason for transfer. All you know of (maybe) is the most recent events that have become the catylist.

You need to be attending an Eastern Catholic parish for years before you can even request a transfer into that parish’s Church. The theology and spirituality, prayers, history, and being of the Eastern Catholic Church need to have become such an integral part of your life that a canonical transfer is merited to recognize this. I assume, based on your question, that you have not been regularly attending an Eastern Catholic parish.

Your reason for interest in transfering including which Church is not influenced by the USCCB says that the Eastern Catholic faith having become an integral part of your life is not the current motivation.

I don’t need to know what the motivations are for your family’s unrest. I do not doubt your faithfulness or regular church attendance. I also do not doubt that with prayer and study you could find a home in the Eastern Catholic Church. I’m telling you that you appear to be putting the cart before the horse and you need to do things in a different order. You don’t choose a church to transfer to then start attending. You find a parish and theological system that so speaks to your soul that you become so interwoven with the Church that you do whatever is necessary to be fully united with it. You might find that in the East, but it sounds to me like you long in your soul to find it in the West. I don’t know you. I’m just reading some words on a computer screen. I would recommend that you visit a conservative priest in your diocese and ask if there is a home for you following the Latin tradition first since it is what you are most called to. If you desire to make your home in the East, then I suggest you go to your closest Eastern Catholic Church, they are all going to be under the same Church and bishop, and start acquainting yourself with her history, theology, spirituality, prayers, customs, traditions, and life.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Please, I would like a list of all the various Rite within the Catholic Church that;

1. 
   *]Are in Communion with the Bishop of Rome
   *]Are not governed, affiliated with, or influenced by the USCCB
   I think that will get me started. Later I will want more specific information, but I think the question of where to fien that information will answer itself.
   
   Please, I am not looking for a contest of which is better. I am seeking straighforward, unbiased information with which to decide which of these I will apply to transfer my family into.
   
   Thank you in advance.

1. 
   Dan,
   
   If you look at the stickys at the top of this forum, you’ll find one titled Reference Threads. Among the links it contains is one titled Change of Canonical Enrollment. I suggest that you read it. Another lists all of the Rites and all of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches sui iuris and still another has links to various liturgical texts.
   
   
   Woodstock:
   

   It looks like your only Eastern Catholic parishes are Ruthenian/Byzantine.

   In reading your posts and noting that you are from FL, I don’t know how Woodstock concludes that you only have Byzantine Ruthenian parishes available to you. Depending on your location in FL. there are Melkite, Ukrainian, Maronite, Syriac, and Syro-Malabarese parishes, as well as Ruthenian.
   
   If you want info on the locations, just ask. I’ll be happy to provide them.
   
   I also have issues with the statement made above that
   

   1. You need to understand that abuses against tradition and rubrics happens more in many of the American Eastern Catholic parishes than they do in the Roman Catholic ones, but Latins are unlikely to spot them not being well-aquainted with the eastern history and rubrics.

   That said, I caution you that the transition is not necessarily easy nor should the journey be undertaken lightly. The Eastern Churches welcome those who are running to the East, but are decidedly cautious of those running from the West. As to the period required for worshipping with an Eastern parish prior to consideration of a request for canonical transfer, three years is generally the longest period imposed, although it could be longer if the motivation for transfer was in question.
   
   Many years,
   
   Neil

 

[Woodstock]

In reading your posts and noting that you are from FL, I don’t know how Woodstock concludes that you only have Byzantine Ruthenian parishes available to you.

From here. Perhaps it is not completed?

 

[Irish_Melkite]

From here. Perhaps it is not completed?

Not at all complete. As noted in the opening page of the directory,

To date (2007-09-16), the following categories are complete:

Armenian - US, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, & Uruguay
Belarusian - US & UK
Coptic - US & Canada
Croatian - US
Eritrean - US
Ethiopian - US
Italo-Graeco-Albanian - US
Russian - US & Canada
Ukrainian - Ireland

And even that isn’t completely true - the recent erection of several Eritrean missions in CA is only about to be added.

The Ruthenian Metropolia is in process and the majority of it is complete, albeit still skeletal in some places. The UGCC eparchies, those of the Maronites, Melkites, Syriacs, Romanians, Chaldeans, Malankara, and Malabarese in the US are not yet begun (nor some sub-groups w/in the Metropolia, e.g., the Byzantine Hungarian parishes).

The process is slow and it will likely be the first quarter of 2008 by the time the entire US and Canada are on-line. By mid-2008, it is expected that OZ, NZ, UK, and South America will also be complete. Hopefully, by the end of 2008, it will be as complete, world-wide, as reasonably possible.

Meanwhile, anyone needing info can check the individual eparchial sites or e-mail the directory webmaster at the address shown at the top of the directory’s main page. The latter is the faster option, e-mails are generally answered in a matter of hours.

Many years,

Neil

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Please, I would like a list of all the various Rite within the Catholic Church that;

1. 
   *]Are in Communion with the Bishop of Rome
   *]Are not governed, affiliated with, or influenced by the USCCB
   I think that will get me started. Later I will want more specific information, but I think the question of where to fien that information will answer itself.
   
   Please, I am not looking for a contest of which is better. I am seeking straighforward, unbiased information with which to decide which of these I will apply to transfer my family into.
   
   Thank you in advance.

1. 
   Move to Canada.
   
   Our bishops are members of the USCCB. Granted MUCH of what the USCCB deals with has little or nothing to do with them because it is Roman specific…
   
   The USCCB however does NOT “govern us”.

 

[rciadan]

If you look at the stickys at the top of this forum, you’ll find one titled Reference Threads.

Thank you. I fournd it before you mentioned it and printed the entire thread so I can look at it with my wife.

If you want info on the locations, just ask. I’ll be happy to provide them.

That would be appreciated. We live on the Treasure Coast. (Stuart, Fl. Area)

Many years,

Neil

And to you!
Dan

 

[rciadan]

I extend my thanks to alll who have provided so much info! I will make no rash decisions. I am not asking for easy or overnight scenarios. If anyone promised such, I would be extremely suspect. I was hoping that there would be a Traditional Latin Rite Church soon that would be in Communion with Rome but not subject to the N.O. Bishops. The Moto Proprio promised is meeting with great resistance from a great deal of our “wonderful” bishops and may well turn out to be nothing by the time they get done with it. It also does not seem to be at all independent of thier power and influence. The theology these bishops are teaching and the statements they are making are not of God and I must protect the souls of my children. This is my Sacramental duty to God, Himself, and I will do what I must, even if it means “going forth out of my country…to the land that I shall shew thee.”

 

[Jakub]

Always good advice and direction from my brother Neil…

james

 

[Aramis]

One other thing to remember: any bishops-ordinary whose see or cathedral is within the united states, or with significant parts of their see being within the US, are by default part of the USCCB; most choose to participate.

It is a regional pan-ritual/poly church sui jiuris synod, as well as the roman regional synod for the United States.

The Russian Catholic Parishes, BTW, are all USCCB affiliated, since their ordinaries are the Roman ordinaries of the place, and are required to participate in the USCCB.

Any “escaping the USCCB” essentially requires leaving the US.

 

[Amadeus]

In the U.S., all Eastern Bishops are members of the USCCB. There is no “choice!” We have the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops; it does not say Latin Bishops only!

There are 15 Eparchies, 2 Archeparchies, and 1 Apostolate (for Lithuanians) in the U.S. which belong to the USCCB. However, it used to be that the Eastern Catholic Eparchs were grouped with Latin Bishops in the region where they are located.

Starting this year, all Eastern Eparchs/Archeparchs are grouped under a new “region” of the USCCB, Region XV, separate from the 14 Regional groupings for the Latin Bishops. Region XV encompasses the entire U.S. and its territorties as far as the Eastern Catholic Churches are concerned.

 

[Heracleides]

In the U.S., all Eastern Bishops are members of the USCCB. There is no “choice!” We have the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops; it does not say Latin Bishops only!

There are 15 Eparchies, 2 Archeparchies, and 1 Apostolate (for Lithuanians) in the U.S. which belong to the USCCB. However, it used to be that the Eastern Catholic Eparchs were grouped with Latin Bishops in the region where they are located.

Starting this year, all Eastern Eparchs/Archeparchs are grouped under a new “region” of the USCCB, Region XV, separate from the 14 Regional groupings for the Latin Bishops. Region XV encompasses the entire U.S. and its territorties as far as the Eastern Catholic Churches are concerned.

So inotherwords rciadan, you are stuck with the USCCB and it’s ‘leadership’ as long as you remain within the Catholic Communion. Good luck to you.
.

 

[Woodstock]

So in other words rciadan, you are stuck with the USCCB and it’s ‘leadership’ as long as you remain within the -]Catholic Communion/-]** United States**.