Hi all,
I know that FAIRLDS made a series of videos about it all. But finding it may be difficult. I will get back to you about it all.
You might want to go to this site and look at the videos on the Bible vs the Book of Mormon and DNA.
For DECADES, LDS scholars have been pointing out that the actual text of the Book of Mormon demands that it took place in an area no more than a few hundred miles across, with a “narrow neck of land” in the middle. It has a very consistent internal geography. If that is so, then there were probably all kinds of other people on the two continents. They also pick out some clues in the text there may have been some natives around who mixed in with the Book of Mormon peoples. This possibility had been discussed since the 1800’s in official Church periodicals.
That is the apologetic answer. I don’t think you will find many non-Mormon scientists agreeing with it. Here’s Southerton’s answer to the apologists:
i think your position more representative of mainstream mormons. i think it very problematic to be sola scriptura when your scriptures change, sometimes dramatically.Hi Maj,
Z is right that the Standard Works are the source of official doctrine. The Temple ceremonies don’t teach any new doctrine. Anyway, we do believe in living prophets, but since we don’t have any doctrine of infallibility, not everything that a prophet says is necessarily a revelation.
I think Z is on the “minimalist” side of the Mormon theological spectrum; i.e., he only feels bound to defend what Mormonism OFFICIALLY teaches. There are a lot of people like that, and it’s an understandable position. I am a little different, however, because I figure that if Joseph Smith clearly taught it, and bunches of prophets have taught it since, then even if it isn’t as “official” as many of our other teachings, it’s probably true, anyway. (Don’t you guys have different levels of how “official” a doctrine is? E.g., the “Limbo” teaching made it into the Baltimore Catechism, but now the doctrine is in… well, Limbo.)
So there you have it. Not everything that drops out of a prophet’s mouth is necessarily a revelation. On the other hand, just because it hasn’t been made “official,” that doesn’t mean something the prophets said wasn’t based on a revelation.
JW’s have had multiple prophecies proven wrong and yet they still grow. SDA’s have pretty solid evidence against them and they are booming. I think mormonism has been proven wrong many times over. fact is that some people just don’t care. it could be social, family or they just like the lifestyle but for whatever reason some people won’t leave no matter what. your heresy of indifferentism is wrong. it was nice not to having your pretense of being a catholic while you spew mormon propaganda. but just like Zerinus your posts continue to prove the case against mormonism so maybe it’s good you’re back.I don’t think that Mormonism will ever be proven wrong. It has gone beyond that. Most of the antimormonism now found on the internet existed at the time of the founding of the church. Salomon Spaulding was out there well over a hundred years ago, as was Sidney as author. Nothing is really new. The early mormons heard it all and some fell away and many stayed connected with the lds church.
The only thing that will destroy the lds religion is if information is discovered that directly links Joseph Smith to book of mormon authorship by finding a rough draft in JS’s handwriting as an example. And links any other theories through factual evidence to authorship by a mortal human being. Dale Broadhurst has not done this. I have dialogued with him on the mormonapologetic site.
The mormon faith and the catholic faith are both wonderful faiths for people to adhere to. I have respect for the both of them and both are in my family. If people would begin to concentrate on what is good in both faiths and begin to work together ( as happens from time to time) our world would be better for it.
Anyway it is good to back on the forums after a suspension!
Living Hope Ministries have spent every moment on attacking mormonism. To my mind, they exist for no other reason. FAIRLDS has responded to their videos and they have done a good job doing so.
Tell me how. Mostly FAIRLDS has to get ahead by denying what the Book of Mormon tells us about the ancestry of the Native Americans. FAIR’s main objective is to show that you can’t prove the Book of Mormon to be false. They can’t offer any real evidence to show that it might be true. They know they can’t find a civilization which meets the criteria of the Book of Mormon so they essentially say that it can’t be proven that such a civilization didn’t exist. Their obfuscations on the mtDNA issue are incredible as Southerton exposes.
If it is true that the Nephites never ventured outside a small area in Mesoamerica, then how do you explain Moroni burying the plates in New York?
LGT is problematic due to the wealth of contradictory statements made by “oracles of the lord”. the BoM itself would have to be read in a very difficult to reconcile way to claim that the land was kept from all others and yet allow for other peoples to be all over it. i personally think the great lakes LGT the most likely but that’s because I think it was made up and the place names and geography look suspiciously like source material for the novel. i would like to see just who “recognizes” john clark as an expert. the “plausible” route is jeff lindsay’s preferred approach and i think it easily debunked because first of all it never attempts to prove anything. it just says it COULD have happened like this so therefore it isn’t disproven and all is well. secondly, it hits things outside their historical development by authoratative LDS sources. too many prophets and apostles have already provided exegesis and even “revelation” on BoM topics and we know from that body of work what the doctrine is. you can’t hide behind only standard works are binding doctrine on this. the LDS leaders have already stated that simply isn’t true on many occasions.
That’s easy for a Mormon: “Is there any evidence Moroni didn’t bury the plates in New York?”
You can also check this out about archeology and the book of mormon. This was very recent at the FAIR conference, I believe:
It is quite true that the hemispheric model was prevalent during the last few years but the LGT was hotly debated too previously. To my knowledge, the hemispheric model held sway for quite some time but the LGT theory was always out there. McConkie was a hemispheric supporter, I believe.
It hasn’t been proven wrong at all and the book of mormon is still out there claiming its truth. Of course, people can wish it away, but it is more difficult to prove it wrong. As I have said, the only way that the lds church will be proven wrong is if a manuscript is discovered in original handwriting complete with rough drafts. But that is unlikely now.
What’s problematic is the assertion there are LDS “scholars” when it comes to this subject.
so was joseph smith and spencer kimball. LGT has been limited to apologists. no GA’s have openly embraced it in my knowledge.