Looking for Pre-Nicene Patristic Resource

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Richard_Lamb

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I was recently given a chalenge to provide eveidence of pre-niene fathers and theyr over whelming support for Catholic Dogma. Basically looking for a resource where I can find such teachings as Inmaculate Conception, The sacraments, The papacy and the likes. If possible I would like something that offers quick references and is avaialble online…
 
This is probably stating the obvious but Catholic Answers is a good online place to start: www.catholic.com/library/fathers_know_best.asp

The articles on the various Catholic doctrines found in the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia often include Scriptural and Patristric references.

William A. Jurgens’ book, The Faith of the Early Fathers, Volume 1, is excellent offline resource. It provides a large selection of passages from the writings of the pre-Nicene and Nicene eras that support Catholic beliefs. The doctrinal index in the back is especially helpful.
 
Richard_Lamb said:
I was recently given a chalenge to provide eveidence of pre-niene fathers and theyr over whelming support for Catholic Dogma. Basically looking for a resource where I can find such teachings as Inmaculate Conception, The sacraments, The papacy and the likes. If possible I would like something that offers quick references and is avaialble online…
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Define “overwhelming.”

Some people, no matter how much evidence and examples you give will always want more. Some won’t be satisfied with anything less than a notarized 1st century document that says something like “I, St. Miscellaneous, and the 450 undersigned, solemnly attest that (insert your favorite contested doctrine here) was verbatim, word for word, out of whole cloth, in exactly the same form as will be taught in the 21st century, taught by Jesus and the apostles and believed by the Church since Day One.”

Maybe.:rolleyes:
 
Richard_Lamb said:
I was recently given a chalenge to provide eveidence of pre-niene fathers and theyr over whelming support for Catholic Dogma. Basically looking for a resource where I can find such teachings as Inmaculate Conception, The sacraments, The papacy and the likes. If possible I would like something that offers quick references and is avaialble online…
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You want to pick up a copy of The Faith of the Early Fathers by William A. Jurgens. It is a three-volume work, and Vol. 1 deals with the Pre-Nicene and Nicene period.

I think for about $50 you can buy the whole set.
 
Another good place to look is Joe Gallego’s Corunum web site:

cin.org/users/jgallegos/contents.htm

Joe is an expert on the early church fathers and the source of his famous Papacy.zip (Now available in HTML format) that is a most excellent read on the papacy and the primacy of Peter and his successors…

You would have to go through and look for the dates given for their writings, and I think you will find many Pre-Nicene fathers there.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
 
Excelent page this is what I am looking for. by the way good to see you long time no see.
 
Richard_Lamb said:
Excelent page this is what I am looking for. by the way good to see you long time no see.
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If you were talking to me, been busy on CARM. 😃

I’m sure you know the place! :bigyikes:

Been taking a rest for Advent, but I’ll probably go back (being a glutton for punishment) after the New Year.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!
 
Fidelis said:
Define “overwhelming.”

Some people, no matter how much evidence and examples you give will always want more. Some won’t be satisfied with anything less than a notarized 1st century document that says something like “I, St. Miscellaneous, and the 450 undersigned, solemnly attest that (insert your favorite contested doctrine here) was verbatim, word for word, out of whole cloth, in exactly the same form as will be taught in the 21st century, taught by Jesus and the apostles and believed by the Church since Day One.”

Maybe.:rolleyes:
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👍 exactly!

I just love that St. Miscellaneous. I always pray to him for various and diverse needs…😃
 
I was recently given a chalenge to provide eveidence of pre-niene fathers and theyr over whelming support for Catholic Dogma. Basically looking for a resource where I can find such teachings as Inmaculate Conception, The sacraments, The papacy and the likes. If possible I would like something that offers quick references and is avaialble online…
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Try scripturecatholic.com/

For example, on this site one can find pre-Nicene Fathers who support the Dogma of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation as well as the Marian Dogmas.

I do believe these are all quotes from pre-Nicene Fathers who support the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception found here
scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#tradition-II

**“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).**

“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.” Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

Addendum: OKay, the Council of Nicea was 325AD, so only the first two quotes count. But I say, these two quotes DO point to Mary being free of sin.

Scripture Catholic is AWESOME!!!

Hope this helps.

God Bless!
 
William_Putnam said:
If you were talking to me, been busy on CARM. 😃

I’m sure you know the place! :bigyikes:

Been taking a rest for Advent, but I’ll probably go back (being a glutton for punishment) after the New Year.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!
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Yes that is what I was refering to I remember your from Carm…
 
Fidelis said:
Define “overwhelming.”

Some people, no matter how much evidence and examples you give will always want more. Some won’t be satisfied with anything less than a notarized 1st century document that says something like “I, St. Miscellaneous, and the 450 undersigned, solemnly attest that (insert your favorite contested doctrine here) was verbatim, word for word, out of whole cloth, in exactly the same form as will be taught in the 21st century, taught by Jesus and the apostles and believed by the Church since Day One.”

Maybe.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The poster on the other site was refering to Trents and Vatican ones ussage of similar terms when referecing the ECF’s. I have sincelearned that this councils were using the thers apecifically in reference to scriptural interpretetation…

The poster in question is trying to make a false seaparation between the RCC and the ECF’s caliming that they were Catholic but not Roman Catholic. I have already told him that before the Schism with orthodoxy you were aitehr Catholic and in communion with Rome or in shcism or heresy…
 
GoldenArrow said:
"He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption." Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

"This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one." Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).
Click to expand...
I think St. Irenaeus’ comment, written about A.D. 189, that Mary’s womb was “that pure womb which regenerates men unto God, and which He Himself made pure” ( 4:33:11Against Heresies), should also be added to the list of Pre-Nicene Fathers supporting the concept of Mary’s Immaculate Conception.
%between%
 
I have no idea who this fellow is, below, but he was quoted on a blog about the translation of “Hail, Full of Grace.” You may want to look up a bio on Gregory Thaumaturgus. He wrote this about Mary.
**
Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-270 AD):**
O purest one. O purest virgin where the Holy Spirit is, there are all things readily ordered. Where divine grace is present the soil that, all untilled, bears bounteous fruit in the life of the flesh, was in possession of the incorruptible citizenship, and walked as such in all manner of virtues, and lived a life more excellent than man’s common standard thou hast put on the vesture of purity has selected thee as the holy one and the wholly fair; and through thy holy, and chaste, and pure, and undefiled womb. Since of all the race of man thou art by birth the holy one, and the more honourable, and the purer, and the more pious than any other: and thou hast a mind whiter than the snow, and a body made purer than any gold.

bringyou.to/apologetics/a116.htm

God Bless!
 
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