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Ginger2
Guest
All the Gospels were written in the first century - according to my Catholic Bible, all of the NT was written within the first century.
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Ginger2
Guest
I don’t think that was the point. However, there were some warnings in the NT as to false teachings rising up.
The point as I understand it, is teaching against false doctrine, but where is there mention in the 1st century, of what appears to protestants to be new teachings?
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Jlcastagna
Guest
And those teachings were condemed by the writers of the NT.
- Like I said if John thought any of the teachings that protestants think appear as new teachings were false then he would have condemed them as false.
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Metaron
Guest
The Greek word πρεσβυτερος (presbyteros) is used in the New Testament for people who perform the priestly functions in the Church. It means elder. The English word that developed over time from presbyter is priest. (Note the progression from presbyter to prester to priest.) It is a contraction of presbyter. The qualifications for presbyters are given in 1 Timothy 5. The office, function, and name came into the Church from the ancient synagogue.
After this word was developed, in modern English translations it was used to translate the word hierateuma as well.
After this word was developed, in modern English translations it was used to translate the word hierateuma as well.
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Ginger2
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Oh! I see what you are saying. :newidea:
But, John could only address false ideas that surfaced while he was still alive. If a new idea didn’t come up until the third or fourth century, none of the Apostles would have been there to dispute it.
It is these ideas, that appear to be unheard of in the days of Jesus and the Apostles, that I believe are questioned by most Protestants.
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Rightlydivide
Guest
To paraphrase Senator McCain,
John the Apostle was tied up and not always available.
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Jlcastagna
Guest
As I would say: John the Apostle was not always tied up and was available.
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Ginger2
Guest
I guess I am not following you.
There have always bee heresies since the beginning.
Everyone is descended from Adam. How did pagan cultures rise up if not for false man-made ideas about God?
The OT talks about “false prophets among you”
2 John also: 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
It appears to me they dealt with heresies as they came up.
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Ginger2
Guest
The question at hand, in my opinion, is so-called new revelations about what the Apostles actually taught, yet appears to have been lost for a time.
How do we know whether a specific tradition was actually taught if there is no mention of it from the first century, but suddenly proclaim by someone two three or four hundreds years later.
Also, what if the first mention of a specific tradition/teaching is a denial by a bishop and that denial is not contested fro hundreds of years?
Who should we believe?
How do we know whether a specific tradition was actually taught if there is no mention of it from the first century, but suddenly proclaim by someone two three or four hundreds years later.
Also, what if the first mention of a specific tradition/teaching is a denial by a bishop and that denial is not contested fro hundreds of years?
Who should we believe?
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Philthy
Guest
Thank you for your kind words!
It helped that I have a copy of the letters to read through!
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Philthy
Guest
Apparently you didnt read the OP very carefully - or perhaps you are psychic, because my guess is that the OP actually meant to scrutinize Catholic beliefs - not simply look at the extrabiblical traditions of the early church contained in those 2 letters. Which is fine - its just odd that such wasnt mentioned in the OP…
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Ginger2
Guest
I can’t speak to other people’s motives. This is just my understanding and a question that I share.
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mgrfin
Guest
You want it in writing? The kind of arrogance of Thomas the Twin.
Like the early Church had elementary schools, high schools and Universities. You have to have infrastructures to have what it is you want to see.
These folks were trying to hide themselves, and went ‘underground’. There were no printing presses. And if as people say, St. Paul only wrote 14 epistles over 40 years, you are asking for lesser lights, uneducated, unlearned people to turn out threatises.
You’re not going to get it.
And if you are not a believer, if wouldn’t do a thing for your lack of faith if I produced series of writings. As a matter of fact, if you are an unbeliever, you are unconvinced by what writings are already there, like the Gospels and Letters.
So, you are right, if that makes you happy - there is little in the way of ‘writings’. But there was the Faith.
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
Who ever said that Thomas Aquinas, Bernard, and Ambrose were infallible? Christ promised that his Church would be infallible. Not St. Augustine, not Aquinas, not Bernard, not Ambrose. As a matter of fact Augustine foresaw errors occuring, but said whatever was said, the Church had to be heard first and foremost.
Look I make errors all the time, although I have studied Dogmatic and Moral Theology for years. That is why humans are human.
But, none of these authors’ writings are proscribed. When you have original thought on a subject, there is going to be some straying. But, I’m not scandalized by such a thing. On the contrary.
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
Could you point out some of these statement of Aquinas, Bernard and Ambrose that would not agree with present day Catholicism?
BTW present day Catholicism the same as it was in the 13th Century.
Please respond.
peace
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mgrfin
Guest
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Ginger2
Guest
rule of faith
The standard or norm which enables believers to determine what they must believe. The remote rule of faith is the revealed Word of God, as contained in Holy Scripture and Divine Tradition; the proximate rule of faith is the teaching of the Church drawn from both these sources. The Vatican Council has declared that:
“all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church either by a solemn judgment or by her ordinary and universal teaching, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed” - New Catholic Dictionary
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mgrfin
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Ginger2
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I’m not swimming. I was drowning, but then Jesus pulled me into the boat.
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Jlcastagna
Guest
Was that the ark of Peter or a raft drifting away from the ark with only some of the truth. Because if its the raft that was not Jesus it was a false prophet claiming to be Him.
Until we get to Heaven , we’re all unfinished Christians.
May the peace and love of our Lord be with you, see you on the other side of the Tiber.
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