Looking is immoral!

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Hi, I was reading this very insightful writing of St Alphonsus.

saintsworks.net/Modesty%20and%20Purity%20-%20St.%20Alphonsus%20Maria%20de%20Liguori%20-%20Modesty%20of%20the%20Eyes.html

And I’ve concluded that ‘looking’ is immoral. However, there are some who dispute this saying that if Jimmy Akin says it’s ok, or if Fulton Sheen looked at a girl or two himself, it must be ok. To which I say, if a saint is beatified, it will not be /because/ of his mistakes, but despite of the fact that he made mistakes. Saints can make mistakes too and say wrong things also. However, the writing of St Alphonsus also has the words of several saints, and it seems from the writings of these saints, the mostly unanimous opinion among the saints is, that looking is immoral. Thoughts?
 
I’m not sure it’s appropriate to extend this beyond its scope, which seems, unless I’m mistaken, to be aimed at religious:

“From these examples may be seen the folly and temerity of some religious…”

and

“It is not lawful,” says St. Gregory, “to behold what it is not lawful to covet.”

and

“To practise modesty of the eyes is the duty of a religious”

The religious should not allow their sight to open their hearts towards sexual temptations, since they are devoted to celibacy. For non-religious, it is different. Of course, there is still some food for thought for non-religious in those writings.
 
underacloud said:
I’m not sure it’s appropriate to extend this beyond its scope, which seems, unless I’m mistaken, to be aimed at religious:

“From these examples may be seen the folly and temerity of some religious…”

and

“It is not lawful,” says St. Gregory, “to behold what it is not lawful to covet.”

and

“To practise modesty of the eyes is the duty of a religious”

The religious should not allow their sight to open their hearts towards sexual temptations, since they are devoted to celibacy. For non-religious, it is different. Of course, there is still some food for thought for non-religious in those writings.
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It is within the realm of human possibility to behold and admire beauty, and yet not covet.
 
Stylites said:
It is within the realm of human possibility to behold and admire beauty, and yet not covet.
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I don’t disagree, but many saints, such as St Gregory, hold a stricter view and one that can be admirable within the context of religious life, devoted to God in a special way and closing off distractions.
 
Looking is not immoral. God has created both man and woman in his own image and likeness, and after creating them he said, good. However, here the question is, the intention of looking at another, makes it so. If one looks at another with goodness of heart and mind it is really good, but if one looks at another lustfully it is indeed immoral.
 
Yes, because we all know a beautiful woman is the most vile and disgusting thing on the planet. It is unnatural to look at a beautiful woman.
 
Proverbs 6:27 Can a man take embers into his bosom, and his garments not be burned?

Peace
 
jimmy said:
Yes, because we all know a beautiful woman is the most vile and disgusting thing on the planet. It is unnatural to look at a beautiful woman.
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Ah the irony :o Good point. Indeed, the problem is with the intention. While it is a very good practice to mortify our senses, in special way our sight (see Mt 6:22-…), the intention must be right, otherwise, if someone attractive walks by and all we do is look away, who knows what terrible sins of thought we’re committing in the meanwhile 😛

Even our Lord was very clear when He said: if anyone looks at a woman “lustfully” (“ad concupiscendum eam”) 🤷

Personally I try to either immediately think of the Blessed Virgin (a thought that usually has the power of driving away all lust) and, at the same time, learn to see all women as sisters. Then again, I’m not saying all should try this, that’s just my way, and it sort of works on good days 🤷 Truth is, we cannot achieve chastity by ourselves, it takes a direct gift from the Holy Spirit, who loves, sometimes, to test us by fire 😃
“Ne nos inducas in tentationem,
sed libera nos a malo.”
 
Rocks_91 said:
if Jimmy Akin says it’s ok, or if Fulton Sheen looked at a girl or two himself, it must be ok
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Do you have examples of what these men said about “looking” or were you using them hypothetically?
 
Rocks_91 said:
Hi, I was reading this very insightful writing of St Alphonsus.

saintsworks.net/Modesty%20and%20Purity%20-%20St.%20Alphonsus%20Maria%20de%20Liguori%20-%20Modesty%20of%20the%20Eyes.html

And I’ve concluded that ‘looking’ is immoral. However, there are some who dispute this saying that if Jimmy Akin says it’s ok, or if Fulton Sheen looked at a girl or two himself, it must be ok. To which I say, if a saint is beatified, it will not be /because/ of his mistakes, but despite of the fact that he made mistakes. Saints can make mistakes too and say wrong things also. However, the writing of St Alphonsus also has the words of several saints, and it seems from the writings of these saints, the mostly unanimous opinion among the saints is, that looking is immoral. Thoughts?
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Looking at a woman or her beauty incurs no sin. It’s what you do with such look in your mind in relation to lust.

There are two kinds of beauty…one being superficial sexual beauty and the beauty of a woman’s heart grounded in compassion, empathy, humility and the love of God etc.

Its the weak passions of a man’s senses that are his undoing.

Which is why Jesus speaks of this in Matthew Chapter 5: 27-30
haydock1859.tripod.com/id19.html

27 You have heard that it was said to them of old: *Thou shalt not commit adultery.

28 But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.

29 *And if thy right eye cause thee to offend, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is better for thee that one of thy members should perish, than that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand cause thee to offend, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is better for thee that one of thy members should perish, than that thy whole body should go into hell.
 
I suspect looking/admiring is okay.

Coveting is not. Lusting is not.

The problem here is that looking can lead to impure thoughts. . .once that happens, we have sinned.
 
Rocks_91 said:
Hi, I was reading this very insightful writing of St Alphonsus.

saintsworks.net/Modesty%20and%20Purity%20-%20St.%20Alphonsus%20Maria%20de%20Liguori%20-%20Modesty%20of%20the%20Eyes.html

And I’ve concluded that ‘looking’ is immoral. However, there are some who dispute this saying that if Jimmy Akin says it’s ok, or if Fulton Sheen looked at a girl or two himself, it must be ok. To which I say, if a saint is beatified, it will not be /because/ of his mistakes, but despite of the fact that he made mistakes. Saints can make mistakes too and say wrong things also. However, the writing of St Alphonsus also has the words of several saints, and it seems from the writings of these saints, the mostly unanimous opinion among the saints is, that looking is immoral. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think one of the reasons that Catholicism has historically had such a negative attitude towards sex, is that much of the theology concerning sex and sexual desire was created by and (to a large extent) for priests and other religious.

The Catholic Church for a long time was a virtually closed system that was continuously reinforcing the same old ideas and concepts.

I think Pope John XXIII was trying to address this problem when he started the Second Vatican Council. Based on things like his public statement that:
“I want to throw open the windows of the Church so that we can see out and the people can see in.”

Link to source:
newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/John_XXIII#Vatican_II
 
jere610 said:
**I suspect looking/admiring is okay.

Coveting is not. Lusting is not. **

The problem here is that looking can lead to impure thoughts. . .once that happens, we have sinned.
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Yes, but men aren’t even supposed to Lust after their wives.
So even marital sex is tainted by sin, because without Lust procreative sex cannot occur.
 
Quote:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
R_C said:
👍👍👍
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In other words, sexual pleasure is wrong if you want or enjoy it *too much *(as defined by celibate priests):rolleyes:
 
jimmy said:
So beauty is from the devil. It is an evil that should be avoided.
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1 Corinthians 10:

20No, I mean that what they sacrifice, [they sacrifice] to demons,* not to God, and I do not want you to become participants with demons.o 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of demons.p 22Or are we provoking the Lord to jealous anger? Are we stronger than he?q

Seek the Good of Others.* 23“Everything is lawful,” but not everything is beneficial.* “Everything is lawful,” but not everything builds up.r

Peace
 
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