Looking towards more help w/ Middle Ages

[da_nolo]

Synod of Toulouse is claimed to be evidence towards Chruch’s desire to keep education and the Bible away from lay Catholics and possible the poor. does it?

a website with the document?
scrollpublishing.com/store/Inquisition.html

 

[Tantum_ergo]

No. For one thing, the supposed “synod of Toulouse” with that particular 13th century date was not directed at the entire Catholic world, and the Bible that was ‘forbidden’ was a FAKE bible which had been assembled by the Albigensians/Cathars, riddled with error.

Let’s say that you have in your home a nice generic King James Bible or Douay Rheims or whatever, a nice authorized complete (so far as your faith tradition supports) bible.

Now suppose somebody comes into your home, and your church, and your religious schools, with a bible that contains PARTS of the Bible, as well as some texts that are not IN the Bible, and that OTHER parts have been changed so much that instead of reading, say, that Jesus fed the 5000 with loaves and fishes, it says that the angel Moroni did so while Jesus applauded. And that in the 10 commandments it says instead of thou shalt not commit adultery, “thou shalt not marry, but instead shall only engage in sex outside of marriage for flesh is vile and only spirit will endure” etc.

And that person said, “Here’s a nice new copy of the Bible that I INSIST that you take, and use, as your Bible from now on. It is the real true Bible. Take it and destroy the false ones you now have.”

You’d be inclined to tell him to put that Bible of ‘his’ where the sun doesn’t. . .ahem.

Anyway, just because a book has a shiny “BIBLE” printed on the cover doesn’t mean that what’s inside is the true Bible, and any Christian who found a bible like the ‘new’ one offered would certainly not want to ‘replace’ his Bible with this ‘new’ one, would he?

Well, the Pope (and the bishops) in 13th century France didn’t want to see THEIR people being confused by those heretics who presented them with FAKE bibles and called them ‘real’ ones. So the FAKES were banned.

 

[Apollos]

Synod of Toulouse is claimed to be evidence towards Chruch’s desire to keep education and the Bible away from lay Catholics and possible the poor. does it?

a website with the document?
scrollpublishing.com/store/Inquisition.html

When you’re dealing with an Albigensian heresy supported by the local secular government (the Count of Toulouse) that is threatening to take half the country out of the Church, it’s wise to tighten the reins a little bit. The crisis is long over, by the way, and the synod’s rules are no longer in effect.

And Tantum ergo is right, the synod of Toulouse was just for southern France anyway, because the Albigensians weren’t really a problem elsewhere.

Keep in mind, also, that the Church already had universities and other types of schools up and running long beforehand all over Europe, so the whole thing about the Church being anti-education is just ignorant.

 

[JackVk]

When you’re dealing with an Albigensian heresy supported by the local secular government (the Count of Toulouse) that is threatening to take half the country out of the Church, it’s wise to tighten the reins a little bit. The crisis is long over, by the way, and the synod’s rules are no longer in effect.

And Tantum ergo is right, the synod of Toulouse was just for southern France anyway, because the Albigensians weren’t really a problem elsewhere.

Keep in mind, also, that the Church already had universities and other types of schools up and running long beforehand all over Europe, so the whole thing about the Church being anti-education is just ignorant.

On top of that, the printing press hadn’t been invented yet, so the common lay person was illiterate. People weren’t being censored, they just couldn’t read. And the time the printing press was invented coincided with Luther’s 95 theses.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

On top of that, the printing press hadn’t been invented yet, so the common lay person was illiterate. People weren’t being censored, they just couldn’t read. And the time the printing press was invented coincided with Luther’s 95 theses.

Not QUITE. The printing press was invented around 1450 and the first Bible printed by Gutenberg in 1455. Luther’s theses were ‘nailed’ in 1519. . .that’s over 60 years later. Considering the average life span of a person was considerably shorter in those days that is practically 3 generations between.

So the average charge that “Once people could read FOR THEMSELVES they rejected Catholicism” is bogus. The Bible had been printed, and thus been more widely available as it was then cheaper as well, printing costing much less than the practice before of hand lettering a Bible which could take 2 years–and in the vernacular in many countries, not solely in Latin–for 3 generations before Luther’s theses or Calvin’s questions. .

 

[da_nolo]

No. For one thing, the supposed “synod of Toulouse” with that particular 13th century date was not directed at the entire Catholic world, and the Bible that was ‘forbidden’ was a FAKE bible which had been assembled by the Albigensians/Cathars, riddled with error.

Let’s say that you have in your home a nice generic King James Bible or Douay Rheims or whatever, a nice authorized complete (so far as your faith tradition supports) bible.

Now suppose somebody comes into your home, and your church, and your religious schools, with a bible that contains PARTS of the Bible, as well as some texts that are not IN the Bible, and that OTHER parts have been changed so much that instead of reading, say, that Jesus fed the 5000 with loaves and fishes, it says that the angel Moroni did so while Jesus applauded. And that in the 10 commandments it says instead of thou shalt not commit adultery, “thou shalt not marry, but instead shall only engage in sex outside of marriage for flesh is vile and only spirit will endure” etc.

And that person said, “Here’s a nice new copy of the Bible that I INSIST that you take, and use, as your Bible from now on. It is the real true Bible. Take it and destroy the false ones you now have.”

You’d be inclined to tell him to put that Bible of ‘his’ where the sun doesn’t. . .ahem.

Anyway, just because a book has a shiny “BIBLE” printed on the cover doesn’t mean that what’s inside is the true Bible, and any Christian who found a bible like the ‘new’ one offered would certainly not want to ‘replace’ his Bible with this ‘new’ one, would he?

Well, the Pope (and the bishops) in 13th century France didn’t want to see THEIR people being confused by those heretics who presented them with FAKE bibles and called them ‘real’ ones. So the FAKES were banned.

Thank you so much. do you (or perhaps another person out there) know of some books or websites by chance? if not that is okay, I will continue to search for the truth. thank you again and God Bless

 

[rwoehmke]

Synod of Toulouse is claimed to be evidence towards Chruch’s desire to keep education and the Bible away from lay Catholics and possible the poor. does it?

Imagine if you will that a large number of people in the New England States were being led astray by a group of educated authority figures who had an erroneous interpretation of the Bible; perhaps even to the extent that they published their own version with notes supporting their position. Imagine that this “movement” was sptreading and gaining adherents in other nearby locations. The Bishops of New England and nearby states call for a synod ( a localized limited meeting of Church authorities). In this synod they forbid people from reading the bible and being misled. This has happened several times in the history of the Church. It is kind of a time out for people to catch their breath, collect their thoughts,and to receive whatever discipline is required to correct the conflagration of error from growing and spreading. Temporary, localized, and obviously grist for whoever has an axe to grind forever after.