Lord of the Rings Catholic themes

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Considering he was very much Roman Catholic, I would think so.
 
I found a lot of Catholic themes in Lotr but was told on another online Catholic forum, ‘You’re wrong, it’s just elves.’
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
I found a lot of Catholic themes in Lotr but was told on another online Catholic forum, ‘You’re wrong, it’s just elves.’
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Haha, sounds like whoever said that wasn’t very familiar with the author’s background. He was a devout Catholic and responsible for converting C.S. Lewis to Christianity.

As a matter of fact, rumor has it that they both wrote their respective stories on a bet / dare about who could right a better fantasy novel as an allegory to Christianity. I don’t know that it’s necessarily true, but I find it pretty easy to believe since they were good friends.
 
dmar198 said:
It’s a very cool video, but C.S. Lewis never converted to Catholicism. (For those who didn’t watch the video, it says he did, due to the influence of Tolkien.)
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True, he converted C.S. Lewis from atheism to Christianity, but C.S. Lewis ultimately chose Anglicanism over Catholicism.
 
smichhertz said:
True, he converted C.S. Lewis from atheism to Christianity, but C.S. Lewis ultimately chose Anglicanism over Catholicism.
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That’s probably true, but not totally certain. His father was virulently anti-Catholic, and Lewis carried that with him as a sort of patrimony. Some claim he converted at the very end. Others say he didn’t.

Great literature stands the test of time precisely because, in the course of telling a story, the author tells great truths about great things, and in a way that appeals to the imagination. They might be about the human condition, the human psyche, human feelings, spirituality, any number of things. But they do that, and they employ the “instrument” of an otherwise engaging story to tell it in a way that isn’t mere polemic, but makes a deeper connection than to the intellect alone.

Literature that fails to do it (and far and away most does) sinks to deserved obscurity.

I’m no literary person, but LOTR does more than tell a fascinating and imaginative tale. It does more than simply deliver and portray religious themes. It also draws “connective tissue” between human ways and the ways of the spiritual world.

Possibly part of the fascination with LOTR is that Tolkien shifts the aspects of the more familiar religious persona, which divorces the characters from being simple sterotypes so we can “register” the characteristics of spiritual beings and principals separately from the characters.

So, for example, while Frodo is Christlike in some ways, he isn’t in other ways. Gandalf is Christlike in some ways, and not in others. The elves are angelic in some ways and not in others. The hobbits are almost like primordial denizens of Eden, but the parallel is not complete. Smeagal is “sort of” Adam-like, but very much not in some ways. His dual self is very human, but it’s not derivative of Sauron’s evil. Gollum is us when we taste the forbidden fruit. The Ring is the forbidden fruit, and the power is sort of “knowledge of good and evil”-like; “you will be like unto God”, but its destruction does not return Eden and is more personal and conceptual. (“Do not expect to be like unto God”. “Do not expect that you will return to a literal Eden by your efforts, however heroic.”)

Is Saruman the quintessential capitalist ruler of a “dark and dismal land”, and does all “industry” serve Sauron? Maybe. Did the dwarves, in digging themselves a rich underground kingdom, release the Balrog inevitably, or did they do it only because they became enamored of their own powers? One gets the feeling that Gimli’s description of a dwarf life of rich ale and “meat on the bone” really did accurately describe the proper fruits of effort and industry. But something went wrong. Did they reach too far for a return to an Eden they thought they could create with their own hands? Something evil was unearthed, fallen elves invaded and death of the dwarf civilization ensued. The dwarves were “industrialists” too, and created a magnificent civilization for themselves…until they went too far. But we know it was not inevitable that they went too far. They just did.

We are left to piece together in our own minds what’s “too far”. Is everything but the Shire “too far”? Is that Tolkien’s “Distributist” Eden? Well, if so, the “world of men” is hopelessly outside even the Shire, and we know that existence is not ours.

Nobody is exactly in the pigeonhole in which our minds try to put them. And perhaps that’s designed so as not to distract us into intellectualizing and simplifying, so we can see the morals and principles of the story in a purer way.

Yeah, I like LOTR a lot. 🙂
 
Ridgerunner said:
That’s probably true, but not totally certain. His father was virulently anti-Catholic, and Lewis carried that with him as a sort of patrimony. Some claim he converted at the very end. Others say he didn’t.

Great literature stands the test of time precisely because, in the course of telling a story, the author tells great truths about great things, and in a way that appeals to the imagination. They might be about the human condition, the human psyche, human feelings, spirituality, any number of things. But they do that, and they employ the “instrument” of an otherwise engaging story to tell it in a way that isn’t mere polemic, but makes a deeper connection than to the intellect alone.

Literature that fails to do it (and far and away most does) sinks to deserved obscurity.

I’m no literary person, but LOTR does more than tell a fascinating and imaginative tale. It does more than simply deliver and portray religious themes. It also draws “connective tissue” between human ways and the ways of the spiritual world.

Possibly part of the fascination with LOTR is that Tolkien shifts the aspects of the more familiar religious persona, which divorces the characters from being simple sterotypes so we can “register” the characteristics of spiritual beings and principals separately from the characters.

So, for example, while Frodo is Christlike in some ways, he isn’t in other ways. Gandalf is Christlike in some ways, and not in others. The elves are angelic in some ways and not in others. The hobbits are almost like primordial denizens of Eden, but the parallel is not complete. Smeagal is “sort of” Adam-like, but very much not in some ways. His dual self is very human, but it’s not derivative of Sauron’s evil. Gollum is us when we taste the forbidden fruit. The Ring is the forbidden fruit, and the power is sort of “knowledge of good and evil”-like; “you will be like unto God”, but its destruction does not return Eden and is more personal and conceptual. (“Do not expect to be like unto God”. “Do not expect that you will return to a literal Eden by your efforts, however heroic.”)

Is Saruman the quintessential capitalist ruler of a “dark and dismal land”, and does all “industry” serve Sauron? Maybe. Did the dwarves, in digging themselves a rich underground kingdom, release the Balrog inevitably, or did they do it only because they became enamored of their own powers? One gets the feeling that Gimli’s description of a dwarf life of rich ale and “meat on the bone” really did accurately describe the proper fruits of effort and industry. But something went wrong. Did they reach too far for a return to an Eden they thought they could create with their own hands? Something evil was unearthed, fallen elves invaded and death of the dwarf civilization ensued. The dwarves were “industrialists” too, and created a magnificent civilization for themselves…until they went too far. But we know it was not inevitable that they went too far. They just did.

We are left to piece together in our own minds what’s “too far”. Is everything but the Shire “too far”? Is that Tolkien’s “Distributist” Eden? Well, if so, the “world of men” is hopelessly outside even the Shire, and we know that existence is not ours.

Nobody is exactly in the pigeonhole in which our minds try to put them. And perhaps that’s designed so as not to distract us into intellectualizing and simplifying, so we can see the morals and principles of the story in a purer way.

Yeah, I like LOTR a lot. 🙂
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Wow, great post! This should be on a plaque somewhere!
 
Does anyone know if there is a hidden satire or meaning behind the Lord of the Rings books?
JRR Tolkien was a devout Catholic and he spent 40 years writing the Lord of the Rings.
He was also a member of the Inklings and a close friend of CS Lewis (who portrays Jesus Christ as the lion Aslan in his books).

When you look at it, the map of Middle Earth is like similar to that of Western Europe.
The following countries are thus represented:
Gondor = Italy
Minas Tirith = Rome
Isengard = Constantinople
Minas Ithil = Alexandria
Mordor = Palestine
Shire = England

The characters may be portrayed as such:
Gandalf = Pope
Aragorn = Christian Roman Emperor (eg Charlemagne or Constantine)
Sauron = Muslim leader (eg Saladin or Suleiman the Magnificent) or Satan
Saruman = Patriach of Constantinople
Sharkey’s men at the Shire = Protestants
Denethor = Other Roman Emperor(s)
Frodo = Jesus Christ
Samwise Gamgee = St Peter the Apostle
Gollum = Judas Iscariot
Orcs = Muslims/Turks

The story may represent the history of the Crusades as well as the history of the Catholic Church.
Among the areas covered are:
Treason of Isengard = Scism between the Roman Catholic and the Greek Orthodox Churches.
Destruction of Isengard by treants = Plundering of Constantinople by crusaders.
Plundering of the Shire = Iconoclasm and plundering of Church property by Protestants.

The war with Mordor represents the Crusades, which are ongoing and will result in stalemate or defeat if not for the actions of Frodo in bringing the ring to Mount Doom (Jesus bringing the burden of sin on the cross at Golgotha/Calvary.)
Frodo is accompanied by his servant, the faithful Samwise Gamgee (portraying St Peter) and the treacherous Gollum (portraying Judas Iscariot). Thanks to Gollum’s (and Judas’) greed, the mission of Frodo (and Jesus) was successful.

Following on from my interpretation as above.
The five Istari (or Wizards) may represent the five ancient Apostolic Sees of ancient Christianity.
The five Istari are:
Saruman the White (representing the Patriarch of Constantinople)
Gandalf the Grey (representing the Patriarch of Rome / Pope)
Radagast the Brown (representing the Patriarch of Jerusalem)
Alatar & Pallando the Blue (representing the Patriarchs of Antioch and Alexandria – not sure which is which)
 
Compare the following elements of European history with the Lord of the Rings:
  1. Council of Elrond = Council of Clermont
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade#Council_of_Clermont
    Compare launch of War of the Ring by Gandalf with the launch of the First Crusade by Pope Urban II.
  2. Death of Boromir = Song of Roland
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Roland
    Compare the death of Boromir at the hands of the orcs with the death of Roland
    at the hands of the Muslims/Turks.
  3. Battle of Pellinor Fields = Battle of Vienna
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Sobieski
    Compare The Battle of Pellinor Fields in which Theoden arrives to relief Minas Tirith from Sauron’s armies with the Battle of Vienna in which the Polish King, Jan Sobieski arrives to relief Vienna from the armies of the Muslims/Turks.
  4. Coronation of Aragorn = Coronation of Charlemagne
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne#Imperial_coronation
    Compare the coronation of Aragorn by Gandalf with the coronation of Charlemagne as Emperor by Pope Leo III
 
Leekhongian,

Somewhere in his writings Tolkien expressly indicates that his work is not the kind of detailed allegory, with all the exact one-to-one correlations, that you describe.

That being said, as readers we are obviously free to perceive them and imagine the story that way.

That’s perfectly fine; I’m just pointing out that Tolkien himself didn’t intend it as an encoded allegory.
 
Also compare the following elements of Catholic/Christian history with the Lord of the Rings
  1. Compare the Istari with the Pentarchy
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentarchy
    The Istari or Wizards are Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando. (The last two are named in Wikipedia).
    The Pentarchy are the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria.
  2. Compare the Treason of Isengard with the Great (East-West) Schism
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism
    Gandalf and Saruman fell out with each other. Compare this with the Great Schism between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.
  3. Compare the Destruction of Isengard with the Sack of Constantinople
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade#Sack_of_Constantinople
    The Ents destroyed Isengard while the Crusaders sacked Constantinople.
  4. Compare Plundering of the Shire by Sharkey’s men with the Rise of Protestantism in England
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism#Anglicanism
    King Henry VIII broke away from the Roman Catholic Chruch and formed Anglicanism.
 
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