Lord of the Rings

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I’m sure this has been done before, but there is so much out there!

Can you identify any Catholic themes found in any of the Lord of the Ring movies?

:hmmm: Rod
 
This is a great resource for this…

Mythic Truth

I especially like the theme of the First and the Last as this person discusses.

This is a beautiful website, and this person has done a fabulous job.
 
LOTR is thick with them. The most obvious is the humble hobbit bearing all of the pain and suffering of Middle-Earth (representing Jesus Christ). “The Silmarillian”, Tolkien’s prequel to LOTR, also has much symbolism, such as Melkor being jealous of other creations of Iluvatar (God) and becoming the evil Morgoth (Lucifer turning to Satan).
 
The Return of the King had the most profound effect on me from a Christian perspective.Especially the last few scenes brought to life on the Big Screen.

Frodo stated something like “and when you begin to understand, you can’t go back.” I had chills as the ending wrapped up (in the movie version more so than the book…something about that visual dramatic stuff!)

Frodo was changed, much like we’re all changed and transformed into a new creature that cannot quite look at things the same ever again after meeting Jesus. Also, watching Frodo and his fellow Hobbits see a whole kingdom bow at their feet, I couldn’t help but hear “and the last shall be first” echo in my mind. A new kingdom and reign was established because of the humility and tenacity of a simple hobbit. There’s no doubt he proved the Proud have a hard time doing God’s business!

K
 
Frodo is the Suffering Christ, Gandalf is the Risen Christ, Aragorn is Christ the King. All 3 characters have qualities and experiences that parallel Jesus: Frodo as stated suffers to save Middle Earth, Gandalf lays down his life for his fellow men and comes back from the dead, he also ws the only Istari to have been to heaven but that is another story and you have to read through all of Tolkien, Aragorn well is the King of Kings, King over all men and all other Kings, and one sign of the true King is that he will be a healer, Aragorn breaths on Eowyn and Faramir to restore them in the House of Healing.
There is alot more throughout the all his books.I loved them.
Kathy
 
One small point: the importance of fullfilling oaths.

I loved the way all the men of Rohan were willing to ride off and die because they had made a vow, even though they received no aid from Gondor. In this day of rampant divorce and failed marriages, how important it is that spouses take the focus off of themselves as individuals and their personal needs. Excuses such as “not being happy” or “needing to focus on me” are self-serving and not worthy of the covenant one makes with God in a marriage. Men (and women), mount up and ride. Fulfill your oaths.

End of sermon.
 
Two of the many philosophical insights in LOTR are:

On End of Life (Return of the King; at a lull in the battle, when the good forces seemed to be losing)

Pippin – I didn’t think it would end this way.

Gandalf – End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. Death is just another path … one that we all must take. The grey rain rolls back … and all turns to silver glass. And then you see it.

Pippin – What Gandalf? See what?

Gandalf – White shores and beyond … a far green country … under a swift sunrise.

Pippin – Well … that isn’t so bad.

Gandalf – No. No, it isn’t.

On Prayer (Fellowship of the Ring; after ringwraiths were wiped out by the water wave on the river)

Arwen - No. No! Frodo, no. Frodo, don’t give in. Not now.

What grace is given to me … let it pass to him. Let him be spared. Save him.
 
(continuation of my last post)

On Planned and Accidental Occurrences and Responsibility for Present Action (Fellowship of the Ring, Moria; after spotting Gollum trailing them)

Frodo – It is a pity that Bilbo did not kill him (Gollum) when he had the chance.

Gandalf – Pity? It is a pity that stayed. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all the ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

Frodo – I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had ever happened.

Gandalf – So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the ring. In case you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.

On Good In This World (Two Towers; Osgiliath, after Sam saves Frodo from submitting the ring to a Nazgul)

Frodo – I can’t do this, Sam.

Sam – I know it’s all wrong. By rights we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones really mattered. Full of darkness and dangers they were. And sometimes you don’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end it’s only a passing thing … this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back (to evil), only they didn’t. They kept going, because they were holding on to something.

Frodo – what are we holding on to Sam?

Sam – that there is some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.
 
How about Minas Tirith as a type of the Church?

It was sieged heavily and seemed beyond all hope, it swayed – but in the end it would never fall…

Just a thought… :cool:
 
How about the reproduction of orcs and uruk-hais? They reproduce without mothers. Does that not suggest cloning or genetic manipulation?

Tom
 
what about the lembas.

bread for the journey, one bite will sustain you for a very long time.
 
THE Ring = sin
rings = power (the weak are corrupted, the wise are not)
 
JRR was different in his approach that his friend and fellow Christian C.S. Lewis. Lewis wrote allegory; in fact, he was an expert on the subject. JRR wrote myth, and really did not much care for allegory. He used to deny that any character in his work represented someone explicitly.

The observation on the attributes of Christ – suffering, resurrection, kinship – being reflected in some of the characters is a good one. It was the way he wrote.

To me one of the greatest Catholic ideas in LOTR is the whole idea of the anti-quest. The aim was not to gain the ring but to destroy it; not to gain the horrible power it bestowed, but to have done with that power once and for all. Rather than seeking to save something, thereby losing everything worthwhile, the aim was to lose something, in order to save that which was important. A very Catholic Christian sentiment.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
not a christian theme, but its interesting anyway.

in norse myth Odin surrenders an eye to gain infinite wisdom

in LOTR Sauron gives up his entire being save an eye to gain earthly power
 
These are awesome replies! Exactly what I am looking for. Hmmm… are there any other movies with hidden Catholic or Christian themes? Hope to hear some replies. 🙂
 
tgliang said:
(continuation of my last post)

On Planned and Accidental Occurrences and Responsibility for Present Action (Fellowship of the Ring, Moria; after spotting Gollum trailing them)

Frodo – It is a pity that Bilbo did not kill him (Gollum) when he had the chance.

Gandalf – Pity? It is a pity that stayed. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all the ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

Frodo – I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had ever happened.

Gandalf – So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the ring. In case you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.

On Good In This World (Two Towers; Osgiliath, after Sam saves Frodo from submitting the ring to a Nazgul)

Frodo – I can’t do this, Sam.

Sam – I know it’s all wrong. By rights we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones really mattered. Full of darkness and dangers they were. And sometimes you don’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end it’s only a passing thing … this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back (to evil), only they didn’t. They kept going, because they were holding on to something.

Frodo – what are we holding on to Sam?

Sam – that there is some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.
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The quote is actually:

Do not be too eager to deal out death IN judgment.

I’m sorry, but I saw this and it’s one of my pet peeves. So many people alter this quote to take the “judgmentalism” out of it. So many people claim it is terrible to judge. When we are often asked to make good judgements.

Tolkien is brilliant here. One judgment we are not to make lightly is the judgement for death. Gandalf is showing Frodo that the reality of a judgement of death is irreversable and should be taken VERY seriously.
 
I like the part in ROTK when Aragorn led an army of the dead and later freed them. Kinda like purgatory in a manner.
 
If you haven’t read the books–do it! The movies lost a lot, in my opinion. I didn’t even bother seeing ROTK since I knew the scourging of the Shire wasn’t going to be in there. There’s so many themes not included in the movies that you’re missing out by not reading the books.
 
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Almeria:
There’s so many themes not included in the movies that you’re missing out by not reading the books.
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Wow! Sounds interesting. Thanks for the advice, I’ll have to check that out.
 
If you can, also read The Similarion. The creation story in there is the best I’ve ever read. The book is rather dry, but some of the stories are absolutely amazing.
 
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