Losing My Faith in YHWH

[MrZetterlund]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place. And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen? Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me? And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

 

[MrZetterlund]

:snowing:

 

[simspt]

Hi my friend
been there before.
A book that was recently recommended to me by PATG in this forum has been very helpful. You might want to check it out.
And God said What?: An Introduction to Biblical Literary Forms - the Catholic adult education textbook on scripture analysis and history written by Margaret Ralph,

 

[MrZetterlund]

Hi my friend
been there before.
A book that was recently recommended to me by PATG in this forum has been very helpful. You might want to check it out.
And God said What?: An Introduction to Biblical Literary Forms - the Catholic adult education textbook on scripture analysis and history written by Margaret Ralph,

Does it really touch on these particular subjects I brought up? I kinda feel like a Mormon. Too much of a gap of evidence. Fundamental evidence at that. Why does truth say one thing, and history say another? God forgive me… :snowing:

 

[momor]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place. And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen? Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me? And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

Where do you get your information that none of the evidence you cite exists? I’m not saying it does exist, I just don’t know that it doesn’t.

With regards to the Hebrews in Egypt, I have heard it theorized that Pharoah removed all reference to them because of the *** kicking he got. Doesn’t look good on a deity’s resume, you know.

 

[JCnMe]

You are on a journey of Faith-and it’s possible at times to lose sight of where you are going…as far as the great Flood- most cultures and religions have stories about it…this book will help strengthen your faith and help you find what you are looking for
stores.lulu.com/GodsGallery coupon code IDES will save you 10% in March

 

[astro_girl]

Hi my friend
been there before.
A book that was recently recommended to me by PATG in this forum has been very helpful. You might want to check it out.
And God said What?: An Introduction to Biblical Literary Forms - the Catholic adult education textbook on scripture analysis and history written by Margaret Ralph,

Thanks for this reference. I am also in an uncomfortable place w/my beliefs. I pray it is very temporary. I 'd like to check out the above-mentioned reference. Is this an easy to read text, and are there any similar types of Catholic education books available w/out having to refer to, say, one of the Catholic study bibles?

 

[Michael_Vernon]

Hey Mr Zetterland, about seven years ago I went through a very similar experience. It lasted about a year and before it was over I had questioned everything I had ever believed about GOD. It was horrible. I know if I had died then, I would have gone straight to hell, because I felt like hell; but GOD didn’t let me die and HE didn’t abandon me in that hole. Then one day I just started praying, “LORD Jesus, help me!”, and in a few days the darkness started to lift and basic beliefs started falling back into place like a little chapel being built by bricks falling from Heaven. Now my Faith, and my understanding of the Faith is greater than ever before. We can easily over-intellectualize this stuff. Our human brains and our human knowledge are much, much too limited for us to rely on them completely; and don’t look to other humans to do what only the Holy Spirit can do. If you are at your wits end, Help is on the way.

 

[Robbinson]

Hi - I’m sorry you are struggling - we all do at times in our walk. However I do think that a number of your statements may be based on misinformation:

Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place.

Actually, there is a great deal of physical evidence of the flood and there are a number of books written about it including some backed up with science (chemistry and geology). Did you know there are sea fossils on the top of mount everest, for example? Interestingly, there are a number of religions spread around the world that also have, as part of the religious and traditional heritage, a story of a great flood.

And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen?

I believe Jesus meant that just as with Noah - when the people ignored his warnings of a coming flood and then suddenly, without warning, the wrath of the flood (destruction came), so it will be when Jesus returns (the people will ignore the prophecy and warnings and then he will come suddenly in judgement).

Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me?

There is very significant archeological evidence which supports many of the stories as reported in the book of Exodus - including the jewish people being there, recordings of the names of pharohs and other Egyptions noted in the story of the Exodus.

[QUOTEAnd what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!
[/QUOTE]

It depends on what “giants” means. Some take it literally as in “Giant” people, some believe it refers to “giants” in faith - or it could just have been a race of “tall” (not really “giant”) people like Amazon’s today.

God is multi-dimensional (as revealed in the bible), but it is our nature, I think, to try to put him in a box and create an image that suits us best.

I believe the bible is the Word of God - its transformed my life in ways that provide the empirical proof that I need - but then again, Jesus said to Thomas, blessed who those who believe, and yet do not see.

Blessings and wishing you the best in your walk of faith as you continue to explore your doubts and beliefs.

Brian

 

[JPCalifornia]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place. And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen? Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me? And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

Tell me if I am wrong but have you ever read the entire Bible more than 2 times. There is a very good reason why some of us are fundamentalist. I believe that it all took place just as the Bible said it did and believe me. The New Testament points out that the Lord and His disciples believed it as well. The evidence is there for those that care to look for it but we are not diligent to do it. JP

 

[feargalmac]

Why not have a look at these links.

drfalesbaa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=31

arkdiscovery.com/noah%27s_ark.htm

The first covers some of your points regarding the Jews in Egypt, and the second is self - explanatory.

 

[crazzeto]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place. And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen? Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me? And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

you can’t really seperate the Old Testament from the new, so I guess I would caution you there. But I would answer this, with regard to Noah,

God wanted to flood out humanity primarly, and he didn’t necessarly need to flood the whole world to do that. From our perspective the whole world, our whole world was flooded, perhaps in reality it was, or perhaps in reality there was just a very large regional flood (for which there is plenty of evidence).

More over, cultures all over the world tell of a flood story. This is rather odd if such a thing never happend, particularly given how similar all the story is.

I’m not up on the latest evidence of the hebrews in Egypt, but last I knew there was not any great dispute about their existance there.

Could you please share where your getting your information? I have a feeling you’ve come across some athiestic media.

 

[momor]

I came out of a multi-year crisis of despair about a year ago. I was certain I was going to hell and I was sooooo angry at God. The only thing I seemed to be able to wish for was that I had never been created. I absolutely couldn’t pray. I kept starting and stopping because it seemed like it was so empty and futile. I believe I was experiencing a little of what hell must be like emotionally - the lack of God.

Finally I just knelt down beside my bed (a novel idea, yes?) and asked God to show me how to pray. I put it out of my mind and went to sleep. Within a couple of days I came across a website divineoffice.org and started to pray the Liturgy of the Hours 3x day. Shortly after that I found out about the Divine Mercy message and began to read St Faustina’s diary.

That was the beginning of a complete conversion of mind and heart. I have learned things about my faith that I never knew or understood before, despite 8 years of Catholic school and almost 40 years of weekly Masses.

That was a long-winded way of saying that I believe that sometimes God empties us so He can fill us back up again.

 

[simspt]

Thanks for this reference. I am also in an uncomfortable place w/my beliefs. I pray it is very temporary. I 'd like to check out the above-mentioned reference. Is this an easy to read text, and are there any similar types of Catholic education books available w/out having to refer to, say, one of the Catholic study bibles?

Here is a link to Amazon reviews of this book. Personally it has been very helpful.

amazon.com/God-Said-What-Introduction-Biblical/product-reviews/0809141299/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[Masters_Servant]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place. And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen? Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me? And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

Have you ever been anywhere where there was not either sea sand and/ or rocks with sea fossils? I haven’t. In the Rocky Mountains, there have been dozens of shark teeth found, now how did they get there? you just need to open your eyes.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Man, there’s alot I could respond to here. Let’s Do Work.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Where do you get your information that none of the evidence you cite exists? I’m not saying it does exist, I just don’t know that it doesn’t.

With regards to the Hebrews in Egypt, I have heard it theorized that Pharoah removed all reference to them because of the *** kicking he got. Doesn’t look good on a deity’s resume, you know.

LOL! Haven’t considered that.

Hey Mr Zetterland, about seven years ago I went through a very similar experience. It lasted about a year and before it was over I had questioned everything I had ever believed about GOD. It was horrible. I know if I had died then, I would have gone straight to hell, because I felt like hell; but GOD didn’t let me die and HE didn’t abandon me in that hole. Then one day I just started praying, “LORD Jesus, help me!”, and in a few days the darkness started to lift and basic beliefs started falling back into place like a little chapel being built by bricks falling from Heaven. Now my Faith, and my understanding of the Faith is greater than ever before. We can easily over-intellectualize this stuff. Our human brains and our human knowledge are much, much too limited for us to rely on them completely; and don’t look to other humans to do what only the Holy Spirit can do. If you are at your wits end, Help is on the way.

I sort of feel right now as if Jesus is more authentic than God of the Old Testament, ya know? Looking through history, Jesus actually appears to have many gods similar to Him, and He even has a place in Buddhism. (sort of.) Almost as if He’s a deity that keeps returning to the human race. And it makes YHWH seem like a man-made God. I sort of worry that He’s a God made up by the Israelites to represent their history. It pains me to admit that. T_T But God knows my heart’s thoughts already. So there’s no reason to hide it. It’ll only grow. The books I trust right now the most in my Bible are Proverbs and the New Testament.

Actually, there is a great deal of physical evidence of the flood and there are a number of books written about it including some backed up with science (chemistry and geology). Did you know there are sea fossils on the top of mount everest, for example? Interestingly, there are a number of religions spread around the world that also have, as part of the religious and traditional heritage, a story of a great flood.

I’ve heard this, already. Those sea fossils are there because tey’re a result in a sliding of the tectonic plates that made them travel from the ocean floor/wall to the mountain top. That’s why they have molten rock on them. They did a documentory on it on Discovery channel. Besides, that’s not really proof of a flood. A flood wouldn’t bring rocks from the sea floor to a mountain top. It’s irrelavent. I’m deeply depressed because there is supposed to be a sediment layout left by the flood. Which is why geologists dismiss the story as a myth. (not creation scientists.)

There is very significant archeological evidence which supports many of the stories as reported in the book of Exodus - including the jewish people being there, recordings of the names of pharohs and other Egyptions noted in the story of the Exodus.

Not acording to archeologists.

But I must admit, alot of the Hebrew sources do sound very Egyptian. Example, the Exodus can be interprited into war plans similar to Egyptian military tactics.

God is multi-dimensional (as revealed in the bible), but it is our nature, I think, to try to put him in a box and create an image that suits us best.

I believe the bible is the Word of God - its transformed my life in ways that provide the empirical proof that I need - but then again, Jesus said to Thomas, blessed who those who believe, and yet do not see

.

Yeah. I have the same emotional connection. Which is why I’m so stubborn with my belief. But the difference between me and Thomas is this, Thomas didn’t know. But it’s kinda like I want to believe what I KNOW didn’t happen. I don’t just not believe it. It’s lie finding Jesus’ corpse on the fifth day. :snowing:

Blessings and wishing you the best in your walk of faith as you continue to explore your doubts and beliefs.

Thank you, Brian, God Bless.

God wanted to flood out humanity primarly, and he didn’t necessarly need to flood the whole world to do that. From our perspective the whole world, our whole world was flooded, perhaps in reality it was, or perhaps in reality there was just a very large regional flood (for which there is plenty of evidence).
More over, cultures all over the world tell of a flood story. This is rather odd if such a thing never happend, particularly given how similar all the story is.

Yes, I had wondered if perhaps the flood happened at the Melt Down of the last Ice Age which would cause a major increase in the water levels. Thus be the reason for so many flood myths. But the Bible makes it clear it was a global flood. Example, why would the dove return if it were only a regional flood?

Could you please share where your getting your information? I have a feeling you’ve come across some athiestic media.

Lol, no. No atheists. Mainly the discovery and History channel and personal research.

 

[StrawberryJam]

There are many reasons why a person would find the God of the hebrew scriptures to be troubling to the conscience. I am not sure if athiests are the cause of this, or the christians proclaimed by the catholic church to be heretical for thinking it as well, and I am not arguing for either position here now.

I would ask, how does one reconcile the abrahamic God of the hebrew scriptures with Jesus? Just on the basis that the church says so?

 

[MrZetterlund]

There are many reasons why a person would find the God of the hebrew scriptures to be troubling to the conscience. I am not sure if athiests are the cause of this, or the christians proclaimed by the catholic church to be heretical for thinking it as well, and I am not arguing for either position here now.

I would ask, how does one reconcile the abrahamic God of the hebrew scriptures with Jesus? Just on the basis that the church says so?

It demands an over all understanding. God’s laws were liberal in the Old Testament, and Jesus’ laws were more strict, but more liberal in forgiveness. You have to remember, in the Old Testament the only form of reconciliation for sin was to sacrafice a lamb over the altar, to pay back what you’ve stolen with your hand, or be stoned to death. But in the OT, God’s laws were more liberal. He permitted divorce and hating your enemy. Jesus said “Moses wrote you this precept because your hearts were hard;” to the Scribes when questioned about divorce. Here we can see that God allowed Moses to write laws on behalf of the general public. But Jesus forbade the precepts of divorce, and said hating someone is just like being a murderer. I once heard someone say, “I think the old Testament is much harder to follo than the New Testament. How can you be nice to somebody you know will put you down?” Anything ceremonial or traditional in the Old Testament was practically changed into something fulfilled by New Testament understanding, or removed. Jesus Said “Not a jot or stroke of pin will dissapear until all is fullfilled,” and what did Jesus do? Come to Fulfill.

God of the Old Testament is a judge, a protector, a condemner, and a competing entity with many blocks of wood that men have filled the God-sized holes in their hearts with. Many see God as ruthless, but He may be so ruthless because He’s so loving. Even though God’s authority is well established by His actions, His love is appearent as well. Jesus was sort of His big outreach to the human race to draw us closer to Him with our hearts. Labeling God as religious ocustoms i what He hates. That’s why Jesus’ law was so strict, it demanded the circumcision of the heart to establish the relationship with God, not the fleshy outward appearence of your religious background.

But Jesus warns us several times of God’s wraths, that is a great access point of reconciliation. God always warns first. Jesus is God’s biggest covenant ever made, and His biggest warning ever given.

 

[StrawberryJam]

It demands an over all understanding. God’s laws were liberal in the Old Testament, and Jesus’ laws were more strict, but more liberal in forgiveness. You have to remember, in the Old Testament the only form of reconciliation for sin was to sacrafice a lamb over the altar, to pay back what you’ve stolen with your hand, or be stoned to death. But in the OT, God’s laws were more liberal. He permitted divorce and hating your enemy. Jesus said “Moses wrote you this precept because your hearts were hard;” to the Scribes when questioned about divorce. Here we can see that God allowed Moses to write laws on behalf of the general public. But Jesus forbade the precepts of divorce, and said hating someone is just like being a murderer. I once heard someone say, “I think the old Testament is much harder to follo than the New Testament. How can you be nice to somebody you know will put you down?” Anything ceremonial or traditional in the Old Testament was practically changed into something fulfilled by New Testament understanding, or removed. Jesus Said “Not a jot or stroke of pin will dissapear until all is fullfilled,” and what did Jesus do? Come to Fulfill.

God of the Old Testament is a judge, a protector, a condemner, and a competing entity with many blocks of wood that men have filled the God-sized holes in their hearts with. Many see God as ruthless, but He may be so ruthless because He’s so loving. Even though God’s authority is well established by His actions, His love is appearent as well. Jesus was sort of His big outreach to the human race to draw us closer to Him with our hearts. Labeling God as religious ocustoms i what He hates. That’s why Jesus’ law was so strict, it demanded the circumcision of the heart to establish the relationship with God, not the fleshy outward appearence of your religious background.

But Jesus warns us several times of God’s wraths, that is a great access point of reconciliation. God always warns first. Jesus is God’s biggest covenant ever made, and His biggest warning ever given.

The abrahamic God was “liberal” in your understanding of belief?

I need to re-read all the babies skulls being bashed on rocks, incest, mass murdering, and well- a real whammy of a list of horrid sins condoned by the abrahamic God in the Hebrew Scriptures. Nothing “liberal” about these things, and so much more in there.