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adolfo123
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I am losing my Faith because things said about the Holy spirit in the New Testament; I find to be very alike to Greek Mythology…
How have this be?>>???
How have this be?>>???
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yinekka
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What exactly from the New Testament about the Holy Spirit sounds like Greek mythology?
What Greek myths?
What Greek myths?
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adolfo123
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looks like a bird (dove), fire(Pentecost) , power of ressurection
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Wowbagger
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It’s going to be very difficult to help you here–and I’m not trying to criticize–unless you speak slowly, in detailed, complete sentences, with normal English spelling and grammar.
At this point, I just have no idea what you’re getting at, and I think that’ll be the same for most readers. Explain your dilemma/thought/problem/reflection fully, and then maybe the rest of us will be able to comment on it.
At this point, I just have no idea what you’re getting at, and I think that’ll be the same for most readers. Explain your dilemma/thought/problem/reflection fully, and then maybe the rest of us will be able to comment on it.
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Epoxy
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Christianity is nothing like Greek Mythology, my friend.
You can read many philosophical texts but quite frankly I haven’t. Christianity I believe is the one and only true religion.
Pray to God, ask for forgiveness and read the bible so you can receive the graces of the Risen Christ.
You can read many philosophical texts but quite frankly I haven’t. Christianity I believe is the one and only true religion.
Pray to God, ask for forgiveness and read the bible so you can receive the graces of the Risen Christ.
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Nita
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Scripture doesn’t say the Holy Spirit “looked” like a dove, it says the Holy Spirit “hovered” like a dove, “descended” like a dove. We don’t know exactly what was seen - it just says that "he saw the Holy Spirit descending… (Mt. 3:16
If you note carefully, it never says he saw something that “looked” like a dove.Don’t have time to respond to more right now as it’s time to leave for Mass. Will take up the next two points later if no one else responds by then.
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Nita
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My apologies – I should know better than to answer in a rush. I’ve made mistakes doing that before. I got as far as checking out Mt. and Mark - but trying to save time, didn’t check Luke.Scripture doesn’t say the Holy Spirit “looked” like a dove, it says the Holy Spirit “hovered” like a dove, “descended” like a dove. We don’t know exactly what was seen - it just says that "he saw the Holy Spirit descending… (Mt. 3:16
Don’t have time to respond to more right now as it’s time to leave for Mass. Will take up the next two points later if no one else responds by then.
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St. Luke’s gospel makes it seem more possible that the visible shape seen may have been that of a dove (altho again, the text never actually states that a dove is what was seen, and that the dove was the Holy Spirit).
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove upon Him;… (Douay)
The Greek dictionary says the word translated “as” is a particle of comparison. Can be defined/translated “as, like, as though, as if,…” So it seems to have the sense of comparing it to a dove.
Regardless, in the first two situations that you mention (dove and fire) something invisible (Holy Spirit) was visibly seen. This would be because God, who is spirit and invisible, desired to manifest Himself to a person/s visibly. He could have chosen any form. So, it becomes a great point for meditation to ponder why He chose a dovelike manner at Baptism; why He chose a wind and firelike manifestation at Pentecost.
I’m not knowledgeable about Greek mythology so don’t know what particular myths you’re referring to.
Consider however that certain characteristics are associated with various material objects. Thus in choosing to visibly manifest something invisible, one would tend to choose a form that characterized (or was analagous or associated with) in some way the invisible person or action. This would be true when presenting actual realities (eg Holy Spirit as dove, fire; visible signs in the Sacraments) or fictional stories (eg. mythologies of pagan gods and their activities).
Regarding the resurrection, I’m not sure what you are referring to. Could you be more specific? If you mean that other cultures also believed in a resurrection, I would not find that surprising.
Hope some of this helps.
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adolfo123
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The mystical Bird Phoenix ; bird, fire, resurrection…
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Nita
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I’m going to have to google it and check it out. As you can see, I haven’t spent time reading mythology.
Generally, stories in other mythologies that resemble Scriptural events don’t bother me. For some (eg the flood) there may have been an original common source which over time gets varied in the different cultures. As a matter of fact, especially in regards to the flood, the very fact that it appears in almost all cultures is to me a further proof of its actual occurrence!
A couple of other points to consider:
- God has worked in special ways in our human history, tangibly manifesting Himself and His will (OT times - Jews; NT times - the Church). But that doesn’t mean He totally separated Himself from other peoples and cultures. He loves everyone and desires them to know the truth. He may well have been present spiritually - supporting and helping direct their thoughts when they tended towards the truth. It would help them to accept the truth when it would be presented to them; they would have been familiarized with the concept.
- Unfortunately, Satan is also present and working in the world. His method is usually deception in the form of taking the truth and twisting it. (eg. His words to Eve in the garden.) We don’t know how much info Satan has been given about human history and God’s intervening presence in it, but you can be sure he’s been busy working to subvert whatever he does know, by putting forward distortions of it.
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adolfo123
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st. clement used the phoenix to compare the resurrection of the body…
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PJM
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Dear friend in Christ,
We can’t be of assistance until you share what it is that is of GRAVE concern to you.
If you can suppy specifics, their are many of us who who be willing to discuss your issues with you
Love and prayers,
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adolfo123
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the phoenix and the holy spirit: bird, fire, resurrection ., the same …this is Greek mythology…Dear friend in Christ,
We can’t be of assistance until you share what it is that is of GRAVE concern to you.
If you can suppy specifics, their are many of us who who be willing to discuss your issues with you
Love and prayers,
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Nita
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Yes. Did you find the writing where he talks about it being an “emblem” or analogy to the resurrection? If not, here’s a website with his writing: newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm Just scroll down to Chapter 25
Amazing how God works.
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adolfo123
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How is this amazing… that our faith is based in Greek stories and not revealed truth …
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Nita
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But our faith isn’t based on Greek mythologies!!
In a sense it’s the other way around - even tho in earthly time the Greek mythology came first.
What’s amazing is that in some way God seems to have placed within the human spirit the concept of resurrection after death. It gets expressed in various myths - some closer to the truth in their presentation of it than others. The more closely it aligns with the true event (in this case, Jesus resurrection) the more amazing I find it.
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adolfo123
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SO can i say In the name of the Father , The Son, and the Holy Phoenix…???But our faith isn’t based on Greek mythologies!!
In a sense it’s the other way around - even tho in earthly time the Greek mythology came first.
What’s amazing is that in some way God seems to have placed within the human spirit the concept of resurrection after death. It gets expressed in various myths - some closer to the truth in their presentation of it than others. The more closely it aligns with the true event (in this case, Jesus resurrection) the more amazing I find it.
would it matter if i become of another religion if it all truth ???
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juliamajor
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Either you don’t want to understand or your trolling. I’ll go for the latter. There are such things are archetypes- universal symbols that humanity as a whole can relate to even though the are not the same and don’t mean the same thing. Just because things have a surface similarity doesn’t mean in substance there are the same. People can relate to symbols recognize that they represent strength, wisdom etc. You are very wrong about the dove- look to Genesis, fire- burning bush–look to Exodus.
Study of the Holy Spirit is called ‘pnematology’ from two Greek words “pnema” meaning ‘breath’ ology- from ‘Logos’ Word. In OT holy spirit is referred to as ‘Ruach’ breath, wind,spirit.Very similar to the Greek pneuma-breath,wind spirit. Besides there are many images in the Bible that are associated with the HS. Water, anointing, fire, clouds and light, a seal, finger of God-&dove. Many of these are used as theophanies in the OT- a manifestation of God. Judaism ,being about 500 yrs old, iconography predates greece.
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juliamajor
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Besides Phoenix origins aren’t from the Greeks- referred as ‘benu’ in Egyptian texts
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NotWorthy
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Well, since it was Jesus that resurrected, your appropriate mis-interpretation should be “Father, Phoenix, and Holy Spirit”
But we do see all these signs in the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit, the Shekina Glory Cloud, led the people through the wilderness in the form of a fire cloud. How far did that pre-date the Greek mythologies? The Jewish Scriptures spoke of the Resurrection of the Body (through various prophets).
How many of the Greek gods killed themselves in order to save mankind? How many Greek gods were perfect (I’ll give you a hint… **none **of them)?
I think your fears are a little mis-placed, my friend.
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Nita
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Of course it matters - because not all religions contain the fullness of truth; the Catholic Church does. TRUTH matters.
Many have only small seeds or shadows of truth. For example, in speaking to the Greeks, St. Paul points out some kernels of truth in their religious myths. See Acts 17:22-34. Regarding the phoenix bird: why would you abandon belief in a real person, Jesus, who truly demonstrated His divine powers, truly died and truly rose - to believe instead in a fictional species of bird that does not exist and has never existed.
Know that you are not the first person to have their faith shaken as they come across teachings and myths in pagan religions. If you truly desire the truth, then beg God for it (and keep begging). If your desire is sincere, He’ll respond. Many times these tests to our faith end up serving as a means to strengthen it.
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