Losing the rose-tinted glasses about Catholicism

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Eruvande

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It occurred to me today, while watching a news programme, that I have been guilty of seeing Catholicism with a somewhat overly optimistic viewpoint. Coming out of Protestant beliefs, as I have, it’s alarmingly easy to romanticize things in the Catholic church, like the unity of belief among Catholics. I watched a story where one Catholic made a nasty comment about those, like myself, who still consider abortion to be a tremendously important topic, insinuating that if you care about abortion to any great degree, you must not care about people outside the womb that are suffering, which I’ve always found an odd argument.

Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at mass, and I guess my point is, Catholicism may well be true (I am more and more convinced of that) but it sure doesn’t exempt it from human issues. That’s even evident on CAF. It’s a good realization to get to, I think, as much as I love simple piety, I need to remember that there will be things which will raise my blood pressure because not everyone will believe things the way I do.
 
Eruvande said:
It occurred to me today, while watching a news programme, that I have been guilty of seeing Catholicism with a somewhat overly optimistic viewpoint. Coming out of Protestant beliefs, as I have, it’s alarmingly easy to romanticize things in the Catholic church, like the unity of belief among Catholics. I watched a story where one Catholic made a nasty comment about those, like myself, who still consider abortion to be a tremendously important topic, insinuating that if you care about abortion to any great degree, you must not care about people outside the womb that are suffering, which I’ve always found an odd argument.

Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at mass, and I guess my point is, Catholicism may well be true (I am more and more convinced of that) but it sure doesn’t exempt it from human issues. That’s even evident on CAF. It’s a good realization to get to, I think, as much as I love simple piety, I need to remember that there will be things which will raise my blood pressure because not everyone will believe things the way I do.
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As a convert myself, I know exactly what you’re talking about!
 
Welcome to the family? :o

That is what the Church is: Family. Layers of Family. And we squabble sometimes but we are stuck with each other. I don’t always like my brothers and sisters in Christ but I love them. ❤️ Sometimes can’t do that without the supernatural power of God :o but I can’t do lots of things without God.
 
From the very early days of the Church…there has been “human” problems…just read the New Testament…

Nothing new. God does not remove free will. The Apostle Paul etc all confronted various problems…

But such does not remove the Splendor of the Church.
 
Remember this:
The people that hurt you or you perceive are hurting you?

Just people. Not God.

God is never going to harm you. All of us in His church need to be on our best behavior.
But you know how that goes, even in the best of families…

God bless you.
 
Eruvande said:
Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at mass
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This is true to some extent. People at mass are not as friendly as those at protestant services. I will give you some reasons why; though not acceptable ones. Many Catholics feel obligated to attend mass every Sunday, regardless of their situations. Some went to bed late, some will be late, some don’t have desirable cloths ready, and others may not be worthy to receive the Eucharist. There are many insignificant reason and excuses people will use. BUT they still go to mass.

Many Protestants won’t go to a Sunday service if they will be late, don’t feel good, they are in a bad mood, they know their friends aren’t going, etc. So basically many Protestants only go when there are no obstacles. Thus they are more likely to be friendly. I know as many of my family members are Protestants.

Also remember the Catholic mass is worship and therefore more serious. Many Protestants go for the entertainment which is admittedly more fun; and I am friendlier when I am being entertained.

God bless.
 
Eruvande said:
It occurred to me today, while watching a news programme, that I have been guilty of seeing Catholicism with a somewhat overly optimistic viewpoint. Coming out of Protestant beliefs, as I have, it’s alarmingly easy to romanticize things in the Catholic church, like the unity of belief among Catholics. I watched a story where one Catholic made a nasty comment about those, like myself, who still consider abortion to be a tremendously important topic, insinuating that if you care about abortion to any great degree, you must not care about people outside the womb that are suffering, which I’ve always found an odd argument.

Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at mass, and I guess my point is, Catholicism may well be true (I am more and more convinced of that) but it sure doesn’t exempt it from human issues. That’s even evident on CAF. It’s a good realization to get to, I think, as much as I love simple piety, I need to remember that there will be things which will raise my blood pressure because not everyone will believe things the way I do.
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Oh heck yes. The Catholic Church is not a romantic place. If any, you’ll probably see us fail majorly in the fellowship department. Unity of belief is also often presented in an idealistic manner, as if all Catholics share the same beliefs. You will find some pretty unpleasant people and those who dissent from Catholic teaching.

The key difference is that Catholicism does not accommodate where the Catholic Church has spoken. That’s why even though we will have dissenters who will push for contraception, female priests, support abortion and homosexual marriage, etc. they are just that: dissenters. Even heretics. Other Christian communities have caved and made those things acceptable at an official level. Not so in the Catholic Church.

The unfriendliness thing is unfortunate, but where there is the unfriendly Catholic, there is also the friendly Catholic. But friendliness and fellowship, while bonuses are not why one joins the Church. One should know that the Church on earth has sinners for its members. One joins the Church because one believes the Church has the Truth, not because of the people who are in it.
 
Look at the second line in my sig. I, too, lost the rose-tinted glasses about Catholicism recently.

You are not alone, and you are in my prayers.
 
=Eruvande;13027384]It occurred to me today, while watching a news programme, that I have been guilty of seeing Catholicism with a somewhat overly optimistic viewpoint. Coming out of Protestant beliefs, as I have, it’s alarmingly easy to romanticize things in the Catholic church, like the unity of belief among Catholics…
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Just remember how in the Old Testament that the Jews also turned away from God in droves many times.
Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at Mass, and I guess my point is, Catholicism may well be true (I am more and more convinced of that) but it sure doesn’t exempt it from human issues. That’s even evident on CAF. It’s a good realization to get to, I think, as much as I love simple piety, I need to remember that there will be things which will raise my blood pressure because not everyone will believe things the way I do.
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Frankly, many Protestant denominations are better at this than we are. :o

May I ask what the rudeness in Mass is all about?

The thing is for me, I do not go to Mass to socialize with others but to worship God.
. I watched a story where one Catholic made a nasty comment about those, like myself, who still consider abortion to be a tremendously important topic, insinuating that if you care about abortion to any great degree, you must not care about people outside the womb that are suffering, which I’ve always found an odd argument.
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This a classic, linear analysis by American progressives that you will hear endlessly. :rolleyes: It is nothing more than a false choice question of American politics: If one supports the idea that abortion is murder (and it is in almost every case), you cannot possibly be pro-poor people because the reason EVERYONE in the first world, where trillions of dollars are spent helping them to no end in sight, has an abortion is because it’s either that, or the kid grows up in poverty or will starve or something like that. :rolleyes:

It’s such an extremist, drama queen style designed to get pro-life folks to back off their arguments so the pro-choice side can dominate the debate since it can’t win on a even playing field.
 
Eruvande said:
It occurred to me today, while watching a news programme, that I have been guilty of seeing Catholicism with a somewhat overly optimistic viewpoint. Coming out of Protestant beliefs, as I have, it’s alarmingly easy to romanticize things in the Catholic church, like the unity of belief among Catholics. I watched a story where one Catholic made a nasty comment about those, like myself, who still consider abortion to be a tremendously important topic, insinuating that if you care about abortion to any great degree, you must not care about people outside the womb that are suffering, which I’ve always found an odd argument.

Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at mass, and I guess my point is, Catholicism may well be true (I am more and more convinced of that) but it sure doesn’t exempt it from human issues. That’s even evident on CAF. It’s a good realization to get to, I think, as much as I love simple piety, I need to remember that there will be things which will raise my blood pressure because not everyone will believe things the way I do.
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We are all sinners and all of us can be real stinkers from time to time - even the saints we know in this life. But you must accept all the Church’s moral teaching, including that on abortion and contraception, if you want to enter the Church. And I realize that many Catholics violate the Church’s teaching on these points. They are living in serious sin, so don’t imitate them. By the way these things are morally wrong even for Protestants and non-believers. These are God’s laws, not the Church’s, the Church simply reminds us that this is what God demands.

Sorry you don’t feel comfortable at Church. The Catholic Church is lot different from Protestant Churches. Protestants stress fellowship, Catholics stress worship and communion. Our " fellowship " occurs outside of Mass. It usually takes place in our acts of service to the Church and in volunteer activities. So unless you personally know someone at a particular Church, it can seem rather lonely. But it does take time to get to know people.

Prayers
Linus2nd .
 
mo3 said:
This is true to some extent. People at mass are not as friendly as those at protestant services. I will give you some reasons why; though not acceptable ones. Many Catholics feel obligated to attend mass every Sunday, regardless of their situations. Some went to bed late, some will be late, some don’t have desirable cloths ready, and others may not be worthy to receive the Eucharist. There are many insignificant reason and excuses people will use. BUT they still go to mass.

Many Protestants won’t go to a Sunday service if they will be late, don’t feel good, they are in a bad mood, they know their friends aren’t going, etc. So basically many Protestants only go when there are no obstacles. Thus they are more likely to be friendly. I know as many of my family members are Protestants.

Also remember the Catholic mass is worship and therefore more serious. Many Protestants go for the entertainment which is admittedly more fun; and I am friendlier when I am being entertained.

God bless.
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A lot depends on the parish and its composition. In a lot of urban areas, people don’t know the people next door or in the next pew, either one, though that’s not true everywhere. In more rural areas, there can sometimes be a very close “community” among parishioners, but there was one anyway, with people related to each other and all of that.

But I’ll say that in my parishes (I go to two) most people do go to Mass, whereas in the same area not very many protestants go to church regularly, and there’s a lot of church switching. Yes, new members are welcomed effusively, but there is a much stronger money component in a lot of those churches and if you don’t pony up, things chill down. In some, you’re even asked to leave if you aren’t contributing as much as they think you should.

In some protestant churches, the whole effort is to get people a sort of adrenaline high going. That’s not true in Catholic churches at all. The focus is on worship and on the Eucharist in a way that protestants generally don’t even attempt to create.

I’ll never forget something I read somewhere in some Catholic tract or other, to the effect that Communion is the closest thing there is on this earth to being in heaven. In heaven, we’re in union with God. On earth, Communion is the closest thing to that. I’ll admit that I’m not the most sociable coming out of church from Mass. I do greet people, and I talk to them some. I do get involved in some of the orgnized things. But as to coffee and donuts, they have better ones at the convenience store. But I really do like to look around me in the line to Communion and think about those souls going up to the nearest thing to heaven on this earth. They’re not talking or joking or shaking hands. They’re thinking about what they’re about to do. And so do I. That’s just not really a social occasion except in a “communion of saints” sort of way, and I do think of it in that way. I don’t know how many of them really are saints, but I like to think that in some way or other all of them really are. And that impresses me a lot more than coffee and donuts ever will.

“Communion of saints”. I really like that.
 
Eruvande said:
It occurred to me today, while watching a news programme, that I have been guilty of seeing Catholicism with a somewhat overly optimistic viewpoint. Coming out of Protestant beliefs, as I have, it’s alarmingly easy to romanticize things in the Catholic church, like the unity of belief among Catholics. I watched a story where one Catholic made a nasty comment about those, like myself, who still consider abortion to be a tremendously important topic, insinuating that if you care about abortion to any great degree, you must not care about people outside the womb that are suffering, which I’ve always found an odd argument.

Couple that with the continued unfriendliness at mass, and I guess my point is, Catholicism may well be true (I am more and more convinced of that) but it sure doesn’t exempt it from human issues. That’s even evident on CAF. It’s a good realization to get to, I think, as much as I love simple piety, I need to remember that there will be things which will raise my blood pressure because not everyone will believe things the way I do.
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Reading about the lives of the saints shows me what the grace of God can do in Catholics that focus on the Lord and make use of all the graces that can come through prayer and the sacraments. That is truly inspiring to me.

It is hard for me to understand about the “unfriendliness at mass” that you mention. Perhaps that is because I was baptized Catholic as an infant and grew up understanding that when we walk into the church, our Lord is present in the Blessed Sacrament and we should be preparing to receive Him in the mass. We were told to not talk in church, or perhaps a few words in a whisper if it was necessary.

At my parish we have a social time three out of four Sundays a month. The hall is filled with parishioners sitting together at the round tables and getting to know one another.

I am still learning how to focus on growing in my faith and not to look at others and be annoyed by where they are in their spiritual lives (or where I think they are.)

Our Lord Jesus Christ, His holy Mother, and all the angels and saints are with us on our spiritual journey. May we all grow in His love together!
 
The Church (like the world) would be awesome without humans in it. :rolleyes: (not sure who to attribute that to)
 
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints.

The fact that some “Cafeteria Catholics” / dissent Catholics still come to Church or even identify with the Church is a good thing (though sometimes frustrating).

We have to keep in mind that when a Protestant doesn’t like the demographics of his/her community, they find a new church to attend. However, Catholics can’t. We are either Catholic, in communion with Rome, or we are not. So Catholics who might believe that the Church is the right Church, but that the Bishops are wrong don’t have anywhere else to go.

The key for devout Catholics is to get involved with Adult Faith Formation. Push for Lighthouse Catholic Media kiosks in your parish, push for Symbolon (and the new formed.org coming this summer), push for more and more opportunities to get involved with the New Evangelization and bring the faith to cradle Catholics who never learned it.

The late 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s really did a number on cradle Catholics learning the faith. Baby Boomers rebelled and their kids (like me) were lost due to all the kumbaya fluff.

Hang in their and be part of bring bringing all Christians to the fullness of Faith and belief in everything the Church teaches. Only then, can we battle the steamrolling secular culture.

God Bless! May The Lord grant us wisdom and understanding. Amen.
 
The good news is, your faith isn’t founded on how polite this or that person is. Your faith is founded on Christ. No matter how many Judas’ there are, the rock, the foundation, will remain steadfast. :o
 
Hi,

I understand your discontent! I don’t know if this helps, but I think that the Lord once spoke to my heart about this. In essence, He said that it is when we are less focused on Him, less in contact with Him through our personal prayers that we lose sight of what Catholicism truly means. It’s like we become disconnected somewhere in our soul. Our head and heart are not in unison, and we forget that the whole reason for the Church is God. It’s all about Him. I can’t even fully fathom what I am even saying right now, because I am guilty of focusing too much on people in the Church - who cannot truly satisfy my eternal longing for perfect love - rather than Christ Himself.

I find what helps me is to pray first about everything that is concerning me, and then to read scripture, or a prayer book. He usually answers me in amazing ways. But, He may speak to you through a different means than He does with me.

Even now, you are looking for relief, answers, and maybe contentment and comfort from people, correct? From us? There isn’t anything wrong with that. But, remember to talk to Him about this often also. 🙂
 
SolomonGrundy said:
Why do you (we) go to mass?
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Personally? I go to mass to be in the presence of Jesus. I know it’s not a social club.
SuperLuigi said:
May I ask what the rudeness in Mass is all about?
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Oh, I’ve been rebuffed while trying to say ‘hello’ to strangers who were hanging around, talking to their friends after the mass. I’m hoping as I become a regualr face things might change, but even if they don’t, I ok, I don’t go to make friends, nice as that would be.

I think also it’s the fact that I go to 5pm Saturday mass, and most folk just want to be gone after mass, and that’s ok too
TruthSeeker92 said:
Hi,

I understand your discontent! I don’t know if this helps, but I think that the Lord once spoke to my heart about this. In essence, He said that it is when we are less focused on Him, less in contact with Him through our personal prayers that we lose sight of what Catholicism truly means. It’s like we become disconnected somewhere in our soul. Our head and heart are not in unison, and we forget that the whole reason for the Church is God. It’s all about Him. I can’t even fully fathom what I am even saying right now, because I am guilty of focusing too much on people in the Church - who cannot truly satisfy my eternal longing for perfect love - rather than Christ Himself.

I find what helps me is to pray first about everything that is concerning me, and then to read scripture, or a prayer book. He usually answers me in amazing ways. But, He may speak to you through a different means than He does with me.

Even now, you are looking for relief, answers, and maybe contentment and comfort from people, correct? From us? There isn’t anything wrong with that. But, remember to talk to Him about this often also. 🙂
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This is excellent advice and a perceptive point at the end. Yes, I suppose I am posting this in the hopes that others would say they understood where I am coming from, and it has been an encouragement to see some have said that they do. But ultimately, my relationship with Christ, through his church, is about Him.
 
This thread hits too close to home. Being a cradle Catholic and insufficiently catechized, then rediscovering the faith, you’re thinking, I’m back baby! Only to realize that there are some extremely bad Catholics out there. Whatever, Church of sinners and all that. I’m getting used to it. I’ve recently read up on the Pelagian heresy… that was enough for me.
 
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