Lost Hymns of the Catholic Church

[Don9of11]

I have been following the many threads about music on this forum and I am surprised that there aren’t more churches singing Marian Hymns, Hymns to the Sacred Heart, Communion Hymns, Feast Day Hymns, Hymns to Our Blessed Lord, Saint Hymns and the many Latin Hymns and Motets. Why don’t we have St.Gregory or St.Basil hymnals any more? Have church musicians forgotten about these hymns or how to write them? Why don’t organist want to play them?

 

[Sarabande]

I have been following the many threads about music on this forum and I am surprised that there aren’t more churches singing Marian Hymns, Hymns to the Sacred Heart, Communion Hymns, Feast Day Hymns, Hymns to Our Blessed Lord, Saint Hymns and the many Latin Hymns and Motets. Why don’t we have St.Gregory or St.Basil hymnals any more? Have church musicians forgotten about these hymns or how to write them? Why don’t organist want to play them?

I’m assuming you are talking about the hymns from those two hymnals and other more traditional hymns? I think there are a lot of reasons. For some, it may be because they don’t know about them anymore, since they only know what is in the hymnals at their churches. Other times, they are following what their pastor wants. So, if he doesn’t want those more traditional-sounding hymns, you aren’t going to get them. This in particular of certain Latin hymns. There are a couple Latin hymns which some parishes still do, but most of the time it is translated into the vernacular. In regards to motets, you need a choir for them. Some parishes don’t have choirs or a choir that has the abilty to do them, or a choir director who knows how to get a choir to sing a motet. All these figure in.

In regards to a St. Gregory Hymnal or St. Basil Hymnal, I can’t answer as to why we don’t have those particular ones anymore. There are some really lovely hymns in them. They also have versions of 4-part hymns/motets set as 2-part/3-part hymns or just a single voice. One in particular that I can remember without grabbing mine is the “Ave Verum Corpus” by Mozart in the St. Gregory Hymnal. They have it in 4-part and 2-part harmony for a smaller choir or one that doesn’t have the ability to do 4-part. A personal story regarding these St. Gregory Hymnals. I once worked for a little parish which got a new pastor. When he went into the choir/organ loft, he discovered that there was a stash of hard-covered St. Gregory Hymnals for congregation and for choir still in beautiful shape. The music in there wasn’t “relevant” or “cool” enough for him so he decided to throw them out. I salvaged a few of them from the trash, but I imagine that he isn’t the first pastor to do something like that, especially from his generation.

Anyway, I’m sure there are other reasons, which I’ll leave to others to describe.

 

[NPC]

I think misinterpretations of Church guidelines (yet again) are one of the main reasons why much great music has been lost. I know that in Ireland at least many choirs which had specialised in chant and polyphony fizzled out after Vatican II, with many priests using council documents as an excuse - though I don’t think anyone has ever found the one which says that churches have to abandon their great choral traditions! I know that in other countries even cathedrals ripped out their pipe-organs in the wake of Vatican II - again something which was uncalled for as the Church constantly teaches that the organ is to be held in the highest esteem. I would say, as an organist, that the demise of good hymn-singing went somewhat hand in hand with the destruction of many fine church organs. Also, in the wake of Pope Leo’s motu proprio in 1903 which re-emphasised the central role of chant in the liturgy, many new churches were built without pipe-organs as it isn’t necessary to accompany chant on the organ - so I think in some ways the problems with quality hymnody in church go back further than Vatican II.

As for church-music composers themselves - there are certainly some good ones out there, but as far as I can tell at the moment, they are in the minority. The attitude seems to be one of “we have to get with the times”, but to hell with the sense of the sacred. We get “Sister Act” style music which, if you recall from the movie, did indeed fill the church, but the people were acting like they were at a rock concert. I fail to see why one would go to church to experience something divine but yet be content to listen to exactly the same style of music that they would hear in their local public house. Too much church music today is simply not fit for it’s purpose - and the primary purpose of sacred music is not to keep the people happy.

Now, to follow that rant - it’s not all doom and gloom. I’ve been associated with many cathedrals and churches as a chorister and an organist and thankfully I’ve generally experienced good quality polyphony, chant and strong hymns. I have access to a good range of hymnals, but am not too familiar with the ones used in the U.S. (though I have heard several people criticising them on C.A.F.). There are many good quality hymnals available, but I think churches and their choir directors are often content to simply use the most popular one, which in my experience is rarely the best! Personally, I always choose hyms very carefully - not just according to the season or feastday, but also to the meter. Meter is very important and is the key to a good strong hymn. A steady meter gives direction to the hymn and it helps the people to sing with gusto. Hymns which merely meander and lack definite meter tend to drag and become dull, and few people have the confidence to really sing out in case others begin to take liberties with the rhythm! To answer your last two questions: I am one organist who has not forgotten our great traditional hymns and I am always searching through old hymnals to find unknown treasures. I’ll do my best to ensure that they aren’t lost!!

 

[idrum677]

Many of the works your describe take more practice than the average OCP chart topper.
The problem is, few people want to dedicate their time to the choir, or any other ministry for that matter. I’m in a relatively good sized parish for my area and we have 8 in our choir. No one wants to put in the necesary time or commit to every Sunday. Its too bad because there are so many great pieces that we can’t do because if it.

 

[Don9of11]

I have been a choir member for some 30 years, I see it as a vocation, not something I have to do but rather enjoy doing. It’s true that the latin chants and motets are difficult to master and take much practice and I understand that many have never heard the chants as well as never having heard of other traditional melodies like

Mother Dearest Mother Fairest
Mother Dear O Pray For Me
O Sacrum Convivium
Adoramus te Christe
Ave Verum
Veni Jesu,
O Cora Moris
In This Sacrament Sweet Jesus
Sweet Sacrament Divine
O Queen of the Holy Rosary
Rose of the Cross
Mary Dearest Mother
Beautiful Angel

I could go on as I am sure most of you could with such hymns. The music in the missalettes doesn’t even compare to the melodies listed here. It just seems that something fundamental is missing in our music today; a sense of devotion?

Is there a way to incorporate or preserve these melodies, reintroduce them to church music composers. Maybe if they heard them they would try and work them in somehow.

 

[A_R_Smith]

Ever since I was a small child, I have always harbored a profound love for Gregorian and Byzantine chant…I’ve dreamed of being in a choir which performed the full chants off the Mass, or if not, at least a parish that holds a reverence for them, though my voice is ill-suited to singing in general due to scarring on my larynx. Put bluntly, it’s raspy and almost masculine, the scar tissue itself causes my voice to crack alrmingly while speaking or singing. I would love nothing mor than to raise my voice in this ancient form of worship but I probably will never have the chance. Besides, the nearest parish offering the Tridentine form of the Mass is too far for me to drive without increasing the financial strain on my family.

Thank God that my parish, though Novus Ordo, chants 99% of the prayers/songs (and the doxology!) in the old manner, mostly recited in Latin.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Many of the works your describe take more practice than the average OCP chart topper.
The problem is, few people want to dedicate their time to the choir, or any other ministry for that matter. I’m in a relatively good sized parish for my area and we have 8 in our choir. No one wants to put in the necesary time or commit to every Sunday. Its too bad because there are so many great pieces that we can’t do because if it.

And I think our idea of how often those types of hymns were sung at an average parish is a bit off also. Much of the music the OP describes was written for choirs in convents and monesteries or oratories that had many trained voices with plenty of time to rehearse. In the average town parish, Mass usually didn’t have any music at all. The priest would chant, but there likely wasn’t a choir or possibly even an organ.

Choirs of lay people are a relatively recent invention and like many other things they have fallen foul of our culture’s busyness. If you work a 9 hour day with a 2 hour round trip commute, you aren’t likely to want to devote an entire evening each week, plus hours every weekend to choir practice.

Certainly there are some easy to sing tunes among older hymns (all those repurposed drinking songs come to mind! ), but on the whole Mozart wasn’t writing for the average untrained voice in the pew!

 

[Don9of11]

If you work a 9 hour day with a 2 hour round trip commute, you aren’t likely to want to devote an entire evening each week, plus hours every weekend to choir practice.

I don’t think this is true of everyone. I had a 50 minute drive to work everyday and still managed to make practice. We used to practice one day a week usually tuesday evenings from 6:30 to about 8 and maybe a couple extra practices during Christmas or Easter. But as I said, I enjoy choir, I don’t think of it as something I have to do.

I know that if your married and have children a long day would make it difficult. But at the same time, those same workers will go out of they’re way to make it to the gym, or the ball field, or soccer practice.

I am not a big chant person and we didn’t do a lot of that in my 30 years. The hymns in my list are typical of ordinary times. For Christmas and Easter we had other selections. We would sing mass in the latin, usually the last Sunday of the month was latin Sunday, so I am familiar with some of it. Only a few of us in our choir could read music and so most of our members sing by memory. You don’t have to know how to read music to be in a choir, it certainly helps if you can and it doesn’t take long to show others what to look for and pay attention too.

Our organist who retired a few years ago said it best. “Enjoy it while it last, because when it gone, it will be gone”

 

[benedictgal]

Many of the works your describe take more practice than the average OCP chart topper.
The problem is, few people want to dedicate their time to the choir, or any other ministry for that matter. I’m in a relatively good sized parish for my area and we have 8 in our choir. No one wants to put in the necesary time or commit to every Sunday. Its too bad because there are so many great pieces that we can’t do because if it.

Actually, the older songs are much easier to sing than the drek from OCP. Eagles Wings, for one thing, has too many notes and too many weird stuff going on (lyrics aside) to make it easily singable. A lot of Bob Hurd’s stuff sounds more like something from the 1970s rather than Sacred Music.

On the other hand, the Attende Domine, O Sun of Justice, and O Come, O Come Emmanuel are simple chants that the faithful can easily pick up. In fact, I found myself singing along with the choir as they chanted the Attende Domine at the Papal Ash Wednesday Mass as I was listening to it on my computer.

The problem is that bad taste seems to prevail, as well as a clever marketing ploy from OCP, which seems to think that their stuff is the greatest thing on the planet.

 

[Trad_Julia]

I am totally blind, do not read music, and have been singing in choirs for nearly 20 years. The latest is a Medieval and Renaissance-style schola with 6 members on a good day, only one of whom is a man. We’ve managed to practice for an hour Wednesday evenings, an hour on Sundays, and nearly all of us work fulltime.
Granted, many of us are trained singers, but if not, we improvise, or we learn by ear. This business of a choir director not being able to get a choir to sing motettes and chant and so-on is frankly bogus. It’s not up to the director to coax adults to sing what he picks; it’s up to the adults to have the dedication to singing, a love for the music, and enough respect for the director to sing his selections well, and with few complaints.