Lost In My First Latin Mass

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budgie2 said:
I appreciate what you say that Latin is a universal language. But it is not currently spoken anywhere in the world apart from in the Catholic Church. Why not choose a language which is currently widely spoken in the world such as English or vote to see which is the most widely spoken language in the Catholic Community. Latin does make us look out of date. Or choose a language spoken by a community within your church and rotate for example Hispanic, Vietnamese. It’s more useful to learn a language spoken by other parishioners and helps you to get to know them better.
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Lol, because we need to stop looking so out of date. What, with our 2000 year old priesthood, or our centuries old buildings and traditions.

Or, it’d be more useful to teach EVERYONE one language, instead of tiny groups different languages and dialects.
 
budgie2 said:
ps.
There are a few other reasons why we use the ordinary language of the people. Christianity should be understandable. If we do not understand the language we are guilty of putting a barrier in between the parishioners and God and blocking a person’s way into heaven. Although I may feel comfortable in a Latin mass other parishioners may not understand it or an outsider may not understand it. Language can be a barrier and can make God feel distant. Even if we do understand Latin it might be more beneficial to pray in our native tongue as if we pray in a foreign language we may be concentrating on the words and the language itself rather than the meaning of the prayer. Sometimes it might be in accordance with love of neighbour to hear mass in a foreign language if it helps us to get closer to other members of our community although we can still pray in our language. Hope this helps.
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To completely destroy your statement - I feel far better “in touch” with God at the EF than the OF.

And, I go to Mass in Germany, because I’m studying abroad here. It does not help me to go to Mass in the OF.

I go to the EF, and I have actually met/made some decent acquaintances.
 
As others have said and far better than I, just keep going, get your good missal and pay attention and you will begin to understand. I started attending a TLM about a month ago. I am getting more comfortable every week and I have a 2 year old. I had attended a few TLM’s here and there and I used to sing in a woman’s schola at my old parish, so I know a tiny bit of latin.

I know the most striking thing especially in a low mass, is getting used to not hearing the priest and the contemplative nature of the mass. I have been reading some articles from Latin Mass magazine from several years ago and I have really begun to realize that the the changes of Vatican II really changed the experience of the mass (I am a convert and am just realizing some of this so sorry if I phrase anything wrong). In the TLM the focus is not on the personality of the priest, but he is leading the prayer and it is just so much more reverent.
 
budgie2 said:
I appreciate what you say that Latin is a universal language. But it is not currently spoken anywhere in the world apart from in the Catholic Church. Why not choose a language which is currently widely spoken in the world such as English or vote to see which is the most widely spoken language in the Catholic Community. Latin does make us look out of date. Or choose a language spoken by a community within your church and rotate for example Hispanic, Vietnamese. It’s more useful to learn a language spoken by other parishioners and helps you to get to know them better.
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This is exactly why I’m glad to see TLM is still around and in fact making a comeback. Taking votes to determine the most popular is bad for the church. Trust me, I’m a converted Episcopalian, look what voting has done for them.
 
budgie2 said:
ps.
There are a few other reasons why we use the ordinary language of the people. Christianity should be understandable. If we do not understand the language we are guilty of putting a barrier in between the parishioners and God and blocking a person’s way into heaven. Although I may feel comfortable in a Latin mass other parishioners may not understand it or an outsider may not understand it. Language can be a barrier and can make God feel distant. Even if we do understand Latin it might be more beneficial to pray in our native tongue as if we pray in a foreign language we may be concentrating on the words and the language itself rather than the meaning of the prayer. Sometimes it might be in accordance with love of neighbour to hear mass in a foreign language if it helps us to get closer to other members of our community although we can still pray in our language. Hope this helps.
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I agree, personal prayer should be in your native tongue - it is way easier to communicate more fully with God this way. I have tried to pray the Rosary, etc. in Latin, and I do find that I am focusing more on trying to understand what I am saying than actually meditating on the mysteries.
However, Latin can be quite beneficial, because we are a Catholic Church, Catholic coming from the Greek for ‘universal’. Because of the universality of the Church, we need a universal language that is not the vernacular, or everyday language, of any country, because the Church does not prefer any country or group of people over the other.
OraProNobisIHM said:
Lol, because we need to stop looking so out of date. What, with our 2000 year old priesthood, or our centuries old buildings and traditions.

Or, it’d be more useful to teach EVERYONE one language, instead of tiny groups different languages and dialects.
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Isn’t it our traditions that make us Catholic? Or would you rather forgo these Traditions and move down the the nearest Protestant church down the road? Worldwide congregation count: probably around 100.
Catholics keep this Traditions because this is what Jesus told us to do. This is what the Apostles, the people who have spent the most earthly time with Jesus, in their Wisdom given to them at Pentecost have told us to do. We are bigger than trying to fit in with the rest of the denominations, or heck, even the whole world. We do what we do because Jesus told us to do it, and if we are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, so be it. Amen.

And yes. That one language is Latin =D
 
budgie2 said:
I have never been to a Latin mass but my mum likes them. At Pentecost, the apostles were given the gift of languages and each person heard the gospel in their own native tongue. So Vatican II made the right move but nice to learn our history. I studied languages at university and Latin is called a dead language. We should be speaking living languages not dead languages in Church. Sorry. Oops.
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Ecclesiastical Latin, i would think, could not be called a dead language because it is the language of Catholics. as far as i can see there are plenty of Catholics to go around, yes?
 
Latin is only described as a “dead language” due to the fact that unlike English, the use and/or definitions of particular words are unable to be changed by the people using them on the street corners every day.

English is very much “alive” and evolving, making it easily misunderstood and misinterpreted by many people.
Instead of referring to English as “live” and Latin as “dead”, I prefer to say that English is “muddy” and Latin is “rock solid”.

Contrary to what a few would have us believe, Latin is very much alive in the world, especially the Roman Catholic Church,…always has been,…always will be. Please don’t think of Latin as any kind of “barrier”, at the age of 55 it’s not as easy for me to learn new subjects as it was when I was in my twenties,…but having attended the Traditional Mass for two years now, with a little effort on my part I have no trouble at all following the Mass with or without my missal.
 
kfinks said:
Thanks for above. I still get lost in a couple of places while watching the Mass on EWTN (I have the Barionius Press).

You used the phrase “propers of the day”. Does this include the propers of the saints for the weekday Masses? Also, if there is no proper of the saints an a specific weekday, which propers are used?

Where do the prayers at the end of the Mass come from? They seem to change every day as well?

Thanks…
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Code: 
The daily Mass on EWTN is the “Novus Ordo” Mass, not the Traditional (Tridentine Mass)
Just to be clear, the 1962 Barionius Missal is used for the Traditional Mass, not the Novus Ordo Mass.To follow along with the Novus Ordo Mass you would need a Novus Order (New Mass) Missal,and not the 1962 Traditional Mass missal.

The prayers that were always used at the end of a Traditional “Low” Mass are on page 975 in the 1962 Barionius Missal.
I believe EWTN recites the prayer to St Michael at the close of the Novus Ordo daily Mass
This prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel, originally composed in Latin, was written by Pope Leo XIII in 1886. Between then and 1965, it was recited after every Low Mass at Pope Leo’s order.
In recent years, a number of parishes have begun reciting the prayer once more, and many individual Catholics have kept the practice up. Both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have urged the faithful to pray it daily, and especially after Mass.
Prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel

Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

.
 
Remember nothing in life worth having comes easy. It takes awhile to learn the Tridentine Mass, but once you’re there it is awesome. The Novus Ordo contains the essential elements and is a licit Mass but in comparison it is liturgy-lite. Definitely bring a Latin-English Missal, study the Mass at home, and continue your journey back into our tradition and culture. May God bless you.
 
I grew up with the Latin Mass. Went to one with my husband to refresh my memory and decided why I like th NO better. I can understand and participate more fully with the NO. Although I do respect those who cherish the Latin Mass. I am thankful we have both.
 
turtleoompa said:
I grew up with the Latin Mass. Went to one with my husband to refresh my memory and decided why I like th NO better. I can understand and participate more fully with the NO. Although I do respect those who cherish the Latin Mass. I am thankful we have both.
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That was one of the most enjoyable posts I’ve read all day,…thank you for sharing that.

I came into the Church in 1978 via a very liberal parish in a very liberal Archdiocese,…a couple of years ago I discovered a “traditional community” featuring an FSSP priest and have absolutely fallen in love with not only the Mass but the parishoners,…thank you for respecting my choice, I also respect you and your preference.

Wouldn’t it be nice if other members here felt the same way.
 
turtleoompa said:
I grew up with the Latin Mass. Went to one with my husband to refresh my memory and decided why I like th NO better. I can understand and participate more fully with the NO. Although I do respect those who cherish the Latin Mass. I am thankful we have both.
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I too like this post. Hopefully we’ll have both forms readily available to all parishioners soon.
 
turtleoompa said:
I grew up with the Latin Mass. Went to one with my husband to refresh my memory and decided why I like th NO better. I can understand and participate more fully with the NO. Although I do respect those who cherish the Latin Mass. I am thankful we have both.
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Well said! You have an opinion, yet you respect both views.
 
turtleoompa said:
I grew up with the Latin Mass. Went to one with my husband to refresh my memory and decided why I like th NO better. I can understand and participate more fully with the NO. Although I do respect those who cherish the Latin Mass. I am thankful we have both.
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I agree with everyone else so far. Most of the Catholics I know share your reasonable opinion and lovely attitude. It was so strange to come to this CAF board and discover the animosity and sometimes hostility between Catholics over their preferences in Mass. I found it very upsetting and I still do.
 
I can appreciate everyone’s thoughts and sentiments. I myself was brought up with the Latin Mass and was never able to feel comfortable with the Novus Ordo. Quite frankly, it felt foreign to me. Actually, it felt too casual for me with people showing up in torn jeans and sandals and unkempt hair and guitars playing. Felt like it should take place at a picnic in the park.

As a result, I stopped going for many years. Tried now and again but just couldn’t do it.

I found a Tridentine Mass and started attending regularly. I must say I had forgotten when to kneel, when to sit, when to stand. I tried both the High Mass and the Low Mass. Finally figured out I preferred the Low Mass. The music of the High Mass kept getting me off track because it seemed to be out of sync with the Priest.

It did take a few Sundays for me to get back into the swing of it but that was alright. I had to relearn a lot of things and found that it invigorated my faith on many levels.

I was glad to resurrect my old St. Joseph Daily Missal which has the Latin on the left pages and English on the right pages. Hope you are able to give it the time that it sometimes takes for everything to fall into place. :harp:
 
Thankyou. I truely enjoy these forums. It is great to have a venue where we can have healthy discussions regarding the Mass and our faith, as well as other perspectives outside of our faith. I agree hostility does not belong in these forums. We are Catholics and should be “universal” with respect for one another. Have a blessed day everyone!
 
I am sorry, but having Masses in the vernacular has nothing to do with Pentecost…in fact, if anything, it goes against what happened at Penetecost…them speaking to the various groups of people in one language but all of them understanding was not only a miracle of the Holy Spirit, it also showed the universality of their teaching…the meaning of Catholic is Universal…part of that universality used to be a common language shared throughout the Church (Latin)…therefore if you went to Mass, no matter where in the world you chose to go, you would understand what was being said and what was happening at all times…and which readings were going to be read (liturgical calendar)…I know what you are going to say…and my answer is that it isn’t very hard to learn. Just takes a little effort…and it is good to have Latin since it is a dead language, there is no need to keep printing Bibles and other Church text, because the language isn’t constantly evolving or or developing dialects and slang in various parts…which is what constantly happens in the vernacular…constantly evolving and changins.
budgie2 said:
I have never been to a Latin mass but my mum likes them. At Pentecost, the apostles were given the gift of languages and each person heard the gospel in their own native tongue. So Vatican II made the right move but nice to learn our history. I studied languages at university and Latin is called a dead language. We should be speaking living languages not dead languages in Church. Sorry. Oops.
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