Lost the cultural debate on homosexuality

[Digger71]

Well, let me ask you then how do you think folks handled this issue in the year 1430 AD, before “therapy” existed?

in 1430 ad the concept of a sodomite was someone so perverse that they had sex with men, animals, anything to spite the natural order of the universe and God in particular. This perversity of mind was dangerous to everyone. Men having sex with men was the final stage of the depravity of the soul.

or so I read somewhere. But then I read elsewhere that the Church pursecuted sodomites not homosexuals (the characteristics of the sodomite as outlined above, as opposed to two blacksmiths quietly getting on with it).

shrug

 

[Texas_Roofer]

It would be foolish to refuse antibiotics in the treatment of an infection on the grounds that the Holy See has not infallibly approved this medication or this particular course of treatment. A doctor might trot out all the verses from the Catechism, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas about how such a refusal would gravely contradict the just and natural love of self man is meant to have. Still, one might reply that if everything the Church teaches is strictly construed, that there is no infallible command to love oneself and thus no moral obligation to heal one’s own body. If one is going to embrace a rather legalistic interpretation of the Catechism, one might quite easily turn the entire ethic of one’s self-regard into an embrace of decay rather than eternal life.

In the same way it is uncharitable in the extreme to denigrate or to withhold from individuals with same-sex attractions the therapeutic aid that could very well help them deal with their situation on the grounds that the Church has not specifically embraced it. It is a gross underestimation of such people and an insult to their human dignity to assume that the healing of their sexuality is eternally beyond them.

Is reparative therapy the only way one may experience the healing of one’s sexuality? Perhaps it is not. I am certainly open to the possibility that there are other methods of affecting the same end. This, however, does not impeach the reality that the sexuality in one with same-sex attractions must be healed in order for the practice of chastity to become possible. I happen to prefer reparative therapy because it has a solid psychological foundation and shows the greatest promise. If, however, someone were to come out with some sort of pill or genetic therapy that eliminated same-sex attractions, I would quickly embrace that as well. My point is that it does not matter how one heals one’s sexuality but it does matter that one heals it.

Really ? Would you like to share a personal experience now?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Michael, my brother, I don’t know if you’ve read this entire thread or if you’ve visited other threads with the same theme, but the concept that our brother, OtherEric continues to push is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone with SSA to achieve chastity.

What do you mean when you say “achieve chastity”?
Can one achieve “charity” as if it were a permanent state? I suppose so, but that person would certainly be a great saint. So yes the Church teaches we are all called to sainthood. What I think I am pushing for is the striving to achieve it, whereas some posters put forth notions that genetics make it immutable. For example, I am an alcoholic, but I live spiritually as sober as churchmouse, not “dry” where you long for a drink if you whiff beer, but Christian sobriety. I still avoid occassions of sin for once weakened I may be vulnerable to be enslaved again, but I do this out of prudence not out of any interior struggle. Just so, homosexuals or others with afflictions can draw toward perfect chastity and leave their disorder behind through grace

I reject out of hand that evolution trumps grace and I am speaking of grace not miracles.

---

Reference to WWJD. If that is someone’s rule of action then are they prepared to be the just judge? Are they prepared to promise the good thief they meet they will be in paradise today? Are they prepared to heal the blind? Where is the Biblical foundation for WWJD? (It may be there I just don’t know it)

WWJD is not picking up your cross and following Him. It opens the door for practicing a dangerous attitude of trying to be your own God and your own morality. I adore Him as best I can and I honnor Him and I want to be like Him, but I am not Him Who alone made the once and for all sacrifice Who alone with the Trinity is Lord. OTOH I frequently think “would Jesus approve of me doing or thinking X”? Which is the WWMD attitude of “Do whatever He tells you”.

Perhaps I am splitting a hair here, but for me (maybe only for me what do I know) it is an important hair.

Yikes. I’m late for work. GTG

God bless all. You make me think. I’ll get you folks for that!

 

[urban-hermit]

If a trait in life is rooted in the genes then no, the individual cannot rise above that no matter what the law says.

While research continues, there is not currently any evidence that homosexuality is genetic. This is currently in the category of “belief”, as it is believed without evidence by many people. Perhaps someday that will be proven. I personally doubt it, but we need to work with what is currently, not what we think may be someday.

One thing we do know for a fact is that what humans find sexually attractive can and sometimes does change and evolve over time, even without formal therapy. Therapy seeks to learn ways to effect the change an individual desires.

Also, the malleability of sexuality is greater during adolescence. Probably you already know that since you are a teacher.

You have said that reparative therapy doesn’t work. You are wrong. We know it works, and we know change in what a person finds sexually attractive can and does occur, even without formal therapy. The questions that remain and are hotly contested are how often does change occur and to what degree.

Alcoholism is not always a good analogy for homosexuality. There are parallels, but they are different problems.

Considering America is a highly secularized society and although the majority say they believe in God, most of that majority do not attend any church. So the Church cannot reach these people the good old-fashioned way. …

Actually, the Church can and does reach people who do not attend Mass. This is accomplished by the old-fashioned method known as “you” and “me”.

It is one thing to seek to effect a change in behavior and quite another to club someone over the head with how bad they are. …

Reparative therapy has changed a lot in the past few decades, and continues to evolve. You might want to stay up on that before categorizing it so definitively. Otherwise you might get caught with old, outdated, and culturally irrelevant information.

 

[urban-hermit]

Well, let me ask you then how do you think folks handled this issue in the year 1430 AD, before “therapy” existed?

What a good question! This was posted in another forum by a fellow Catholic with SSA issues:

On 5/29/06, sprite913 wrote:
Most opponents of the Catholic Church believe that she has suppressed and oppressed those with SSA throughout history, in some sort of DaVinci conspiracy against the truth. It is more honest to say that she has always had the right attitude on the issue.

I’m reading “The Life of St. Philip Neri” by his disciple Antonio Gallonio. Neri was much like Padre Pio in that he knew a man’s sins even before he confessed them. He also knew their temptations and faults. The book mainly focuses on Philips charismatic gifts and miracles. Here’s what I just discovered while reading this “medieval” biography. References to the ‘holy Father’ are to Philip himself.

“One of his disciples in virtue experienced Philip’s assistance, when he was greatly disturbed because he thought he was in imminent danger of falling into sin. Because Philip knew him to be a man of moral integrity, he asked him to look after a very attractive teenage boy, and to share his bedroom with him (sleeping in separate beds), because the lad was timid and afraid to be alone. The disciple obeyed the holy Father’s bidding, but was extremely anxious about doing so, knowing the snare the devil might set. While he was in anguish about the peril he was in, he suddenly saw the holy Father unexpectedly one night, although he was a long way away in body, and seeing him he was amazingly relieved at having him present. Philip sat down on the bed he was sleeping in, to increase the gladness he felt, and asked him how he felt. ‘Badly, Father,’ he replied, ‘I am surrounded by temptations.’ Then Philip touched his chest, and made the sign of the Cross from there down to his loins, telling him to be of good heart, because all the fires of temptation and all the anxiety of his soul were already gone. And saying that, he vanished from sight. The disciple remained there, after Philip had gone, filled with joy as if bathed in a great light. The vision was not fruitless; his later actions and behavior showed how deep this virtue of chastity had become, and the greatest proof of that is that from then on he felt as safe with the teenager as if he were his brother or son.”

“There was a certain young man who experienced something similar around the same time, because his thoughts were so distracted by impure imaginations, which became such an obsession that he could find no way to be rid of them; he got to the pitch that he was in constant peril of lapsing into sordid sins. Accordingly he begged for the help of our holy Father, considering that his best hope of help lay in him. Philip clasped him to his breast, and he became at once free from all anxieties about temptation. Nor was this the only benefit he gained, for he found himself so inspired with the fire of divine love that he was able to devote all his spare time to prayer.”

Saint Philip Neri, pray for us!, that we might be made worthy of the promises of Christ!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

*Reparative Therapy

The term “reparative therapy” refers to psychotherapy aimed at eliminating homosexual desires and is used by people who do not think homosexuality is one variation within human sexual orientation, but rather still believe homosexuality is a mental disorder. The most important fact about “reparative therapy,” also sometimes known as “conversion” therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a “cure.”*

apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html#2

(American Psychological Association )

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Reparative Therapy

The term “reparative therapy” refers to psychotherapy aimed at eliminating homosexual desires and is used by people who do not think homosexuality is one variation within human sexual orientation, but rather still believe homosexuality is a mental disorder. The most important fact about “reparative therapy,” also sometimes known as “conversion” therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a “cure.”

apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html#2

(American Psychological Association )

Are these the same folks who thought lobotomy was a curative in the 50s? It is more likely this opinion by this group is not based on science but on permissive morality regading sexuality due to the “sexual revolution”.

 

[blessedtoo]

in 1430 ad the concept of a sodomite was someone so perverse that they had sex with men, animals, anything to spite the natural order of the universe and God in particular. This perversity of mind was dangerous to everyone. Men having sex with men was the final stage of the depravity of the soul.
shrug

My question really wishes to address the method by which the person afflicted with SSA would have been advised to utilize to remain chaste prior to the advent of pschotherapy. An earnest disciple of Christ seeking to refrain from homosexual behavior would have had to avail himself of other curative processes which would have included prayer, devotion, Confession, penance, and other religious practices. Were these folks “doomed” without the “advantages” of psychotherapy?

 

[blessedtoo]

What I think I am pushing for is the striving to achieve it, whereas some posters put forth notions that genetics make it immutable. For example, I am an alcoholic, but I live spiritually as sober as churchmouse, not “dry” where you long for a drink if you whiff beer, but Christian sobriety. I still avoid occassions of sin for once weakened I may be vulnerable to be enslaved again, but I do this out of prudence not out of any interior struggle. Just so, homosexuals or others with afflictions can draw toward perfect chastity and leave their disorder behind through grace

We have no disagreement here. I “achieve” chastity every day that I remain chaste. That is how I am using this phrase. And neither I, nor the Church, put forth the notion that SSA is genetic. Indeed, it is irrelevent to the issue what the cause is for a person is called to chastity regardless. I understand what you are saying about the “interior struggle” and I agree. However, as a recovering alcoholic, you did not start out with this grace, I am sure. In the beginning, when called to sobriety, I feel quite certain that it was a struggle to overcome interior temptation. But, after right practices and consistent “sobriety”, the interior struggle can and will subside. As with any compulsion or weakness, when one begins to overcome it, a struggle may be the first process. With consistent success, the person begins to build confidence, esteem and courage. With prayer and God’s grace, this same person will find that it is no longer a “struggle” and no longer just an “avoidance or suppression”, but rather an integrated part of the soul’s wish to be a child of God striving for Christian perfection.

 

[Other_Eric]

Well, let me ask you then how do you think folks handled this issue in the year 1430 AD, before “therapy” existed?

How people may have handled this disorder in 1430 A.D., I do not know. I do, however, note with approval the story, related by urban-hermit, about St. Phillip Neri and his supernatural cures of individuals with deranged sexual appetites in order that they could live in chastity. It seems that even in that day and age it was recognized that unnatural temptations, whether acted upon or not, had to be absent in order to live a holy life.

I suppose, at this, you might accuse me of relegating all same-sex attracted individuals who have lived before the advent of reparative therapy to damnation based on their objective inability to achieve the chastity that they were called to. I do not claim to know the results of the particular judgments of any of these individuals, nor will I be cajoled into speculating on that matter. I think that the inability of the Church to canonize even one individual from its nearly two-thousand-year history who was known to have this disorder tends to speak for itself.

In the end, it does not matter how people in the past have handled this disorder is irrelevant since we do not live in the past we live in the present. The tool of reparative therapy is a blessing from God that it would be foolish to blithely dismiss. We are morally obliged to make use of whatever gifts we are given in order to aid us in following Christ. Neither difficulty nor expense dissolves one’s responsibilities in this matter.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Other:

. The tool of reparative therapy is a blessing from God that it would be foolish to blithely dismiss. We are **morally obliged **to make use of whatever gifts we are given in order to aid us in following Christ. Neither difficulty nor expense dissolves one’s responsibilities in this matter.

Misguided moral obligation may be the most harmful sin to man, it certainly creates a great deal of pain in the world.

If you were pushed into “reparative therapy” I ask you to consider the real calling is to walk away. If you are pushing others, I ask you to meditate. Only after long meditation can you approach an objective look. God was present before SSA or Reparative Theories so no one is alone nor were they ever alone.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It has but it could use a bullhorn in regards to the virtue of chastity. This age seems to reject chastity as a virtue.

I think the Chuch has lost its bullhorn – or at least many Bishops have. The Chuch in America, at least, seems to be hiding under the bed, hoping the moral issues of the day will go away.

 

[Other_Eric]

Misguided moral obligation may be the most harmful sin to man, it certainly creates a great deal of pain in the world.

If you were pushed into “reparative therapy” I ask you to consider the real calling is to walk away. If you are pushing others, I ask you to meditate. Only after long meditation can you approach an objective look. God was present before SSA or Reparative Theories so no one is alone nor were they ever alone.

Again, the gifts that God gives us, we are morally obliged to use. Christ illustrates this starkly in Scripture:

It will be as when a man who was going on a journey called in his servants and entrusted his possessions to them. To one he gave five talents; to another, two; to a third, one–to each according to his ability. Then he went away. Immediately the one who received five talents went and traded with them, and made another five. Likewise, the one who received two made another two. But the man who received one went off and dug a hole in the ground and buried his master’s money.

After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them. The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the additional five.

He said, “Master, you gave me five talents. See, I have made five more.”

His master said to him, “Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.”

(Then) the one who had received two talents also came forward and said, “Master, you gave me two talents. See, I have made two more.”

His master said to him, “Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.”

Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, “Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.”

His master said to him in reply, “You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return? Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten. For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.” (1)

To encourage anyone to complacency without investigating reparative therapy for themselves betrays either indifference, ignorance or both.

(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. Matt. 25:14-30. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm

 

[kmabba]

As to Michael, really now. Medicine is a physical science and therefore rigorous study and research occurs before any statement is made by psychiatrists or pediatricians. The same is true for psychology. Come on. It is this sort of attitude I was referring to as heavy-handed. And by the way, lobotomy is still used to treat disorders like major depression, bipolar and obsessive-compulsive disorders. And excuse me? I do believe Jesus was the first to pick up that cross of sacrifice and if one is not prepared to accept him as one’s penultimate role model in human conduct that person is no Christian. Remember, he had two natures. It is ludicrous to suggest that I or any true Christian would be so arrogant as to claim Jesus’ divine nature as their own.

To urban hermit: Surely during the fall-out of the sex scandals you heard that the Roman Catholic Church holds little sway within secularized American society and now, in the aftermath, even less so. Let’s be realistic about this because it an issue of great importance to the 21st century Church. Living where I came from, the Catholic Church had great influence. Living where I do now, it has none and is mocked and berated.Your view is highly quixotic and geographically determined. Vern expressed this wonderfully.
As to research, there is plenty. Try Wikepedia under: Genetic basis for homosexuality as a beginning. Texas Roofer makes a good point too.

To blessed to: Whether homosexuality is a mental disorder or is part of a genetic code is not immaterial to the discussion at hand. There are two arguments going on here simultaneously, etiology and the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment, which begs the question can gays be cured? The second argument revolves around what can the Church bring to this issue and you make an excellent point about what happened before psychotherapy came about. If they were wise, they sought out the solitude of the desert of their own heart and worked it out with Jesus there.

And now, I have said all I have to say. It was interesting.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

As to Michael, really now. Medicine is a physical science and therefore rigorous study and research occurs before any statement is made by psychiatrists or pediatricians. The same is true for psychology. Come on. It is this sort of attitude I was referring to as heavy-handed. And by the way, lobotomy is still used to treat disorders like major depression, bipolar and obsessive-compulsive disorders.

It seems they have a radically different view of sexuality than Christ who’s admonition was not even to look without chastity.

And excuse me? I do believe Jesus was the first to pick up that cross of sacrifice and if one is not prepared to accept him as one’s penultimate role model in human conduct that person is no Christian. Remember, he had two natures. It is ludicrous to suggest that I or any true Christian would be so arrogant as to claim Jesus’ divine nature as their own.

You define who is and is not Christian? wow. I am speechless. It is NOT ludicrous to suggest that those who believe they can act with the authority of Jesus, which is acting as WWJD would become prone to pride. Every Christian who started his own church in opposition of Christ’s church claimed more authority than his due. Every Christian who claims another Christian is not a Christian claims more authority than his due. Every Christian who judges his fellow Christian claims authority that belongs to Christ alone.

Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life. He shows us the Way and He is the Way. We are to walk the Way and follow the way but there is only One Way, Jesus’ Way, not your way or my way and to pretend we are Him is demonstrably dangerous. Every knee should not bow to Luther’s judgement or Manichaean jusgement or yours or mine, but to Jesus alone is judgement given.

I think maybe it is better to avoid trite sayings all together if they cause us to judge each other.

The hypostatic union is a great mystery.

 

[urban-hermit]

As to Michael, really now. Medicine is a physical science and therefore rigorous study and research occurs before any statement is made by psychiatrists or pediatricians. The same is true for psychology. Come on. …

i see you don’t want to engage in a protracted debate, kmabba, and I don’t blame you, knowing how these kinds of threads usually go, but i just want to propose for your consideration that politics plays a part in any controversial publication even in medical journals. They are very hesitant to say anything negative about the effects of abortion, for example. Homosexuality suffers from this same political influence. I just ask that you not put blind faith in the American Psychological Association. Their therapies don’t seem to be helping a large number of Americans who, pardon my bluntness, often pay for therapy for years on end and stay as crazy as when they started. And these are the people who criticize Narth. We obviously have differing opinions but I hope maybe you will at least consider my point of view here.

To urban hermit: Surely during the fall-out of the sex scandals you heard that the Roman Catholic Church holds little sway within secularized American society and now, in the aftermath, even less so. Let’s be realistic about this because it an issue of great importance to the 21st century Church. Living where I came from, the Catholic Church had great influence. Living where I do now, it has none and is mocked and berated.Your view is highly quixotic and geographically determined.

I still think we are living in the age of the laity, and this is precisely why. The news media has basically become a propaganda machine with its own “dogma” - a sort of group-think - and they continually seek to undermine and discredit Catholic and Christian morality. It really is up to “you” and “me” to be missionaries in our own spheres of influence, I really believe that, as idealistic and “quixotic” as it may sound.

As to research, there is plenty. Try Wikepedia under: Genetic basis for homosexuality as a beginning.

Sorry but Wikipedia is not authoritative at all. These articles are just written by regular people. Yes, they’ve done some research, but they are generally not experts in their field. Wikipedia can be useful for general information. But with regard to current social issues such as homosexuality and marriage, which suffer from a dearth of true research, Wikipedia merely reflects subtle but foundational misunderstandings that permeate Western culture, which is slowly destroying itself by any objective estimation.

Thank you for answering my comments and sorry if I expressed them somewhat indignantly.

 

[kmabba]

Wikepedia was referenced for a summary of the positional statements of groups such as the American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association. I’m well aware of Wikepedia’s shortcomings.

I don’t quibble with each of us being a missionary within our “spheres of influence”. We are called to be witnesses, no doubt about it. And yes, there is a liberal media and there is also a conservative media. It is good for us to be aware of the bias of a particular magazine, newspaper, or news station as it will influence their presentation. Once in a blue moon there will actually be a straight up, unbiased in any way report. But that’s not very often. So the group-think applies to both sides. And yes, unfortunately, politics permeates and underlies everything in modern American life. Politics definitely drive funding for research.

Thanks for taking a swipe at my father! Just a joke. Having been raised by a psychology professor with a clinical background I, too, am often unimpressed with the profession. (Oh the stories I could tell!.) I agree that the “I’m ok, you’re ok” pop psychology approach is just as useless as fire and brimstone pummelings. The first lets everybody off the hook and the other leaves people often feeling defensive (in which case they won’t listen) or filthy, horrible people (and they become withdrawn and depressed). Either way, they often say what they think the “counselor” wants them to say.

You bring up a point that I find interesting and hadn’t thought of before and that’s the boundaries of laity involvement which I agree has in some instances gone way overboard. But if that is what the faithful want, then why are people leaving the Catholic church and a very large percentage of them turning up in Orthodox churches who are not as open to laity engagement? There’s a disconnect in there somewhere don’t you think?

Thanks for the post!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Again, the gifts that God gives us, we are morally obliged to use. Christ illustrates this starkly in Scripture:

To encourage anyone to complacency without investigating reparative therapy for themselves betrays either indifference, ignorance or both.

(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. Matt. 25:14-30. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm

Other Eric
This is spin and poor spin at that so have you tried Reparative Therapy? Or is there someone very close to you, who you wish to push into Reparative Therapy?

God made you the way you are, and it had nothing to do with Reparative Theories

 

[urban-hermit]

…I agree that the “I’m ok, you’re ok” pop psychology approach is just as useless as fire and brimstone pummelings. The first lets everybody off the hook and the other leaves people often feeling defensive (in which case they won’t listen) or filthy, horrible people (and they become withdrawn and depressed). Either way, they often say what they think the “counselor” wants them to say.

You have listed some of the pitfalls which can cause therapy to fail. My point is that it sometimes works. I know 2 people who have succeeded with reparative therapy and are happily married. I know one other who has not felt same-sex impulses for 20 years now and received that grace through prayer alone. I suppose it’s possible they are lying or in some sort of denial, but I know these people fairly well and I do believe them. Maybe the reason most people are so dubious is that reparative therapy is still very much outside the mainstream of the field of psychology. But I don’t think they are using fire and brimstone. I think the key to success is that the person has to want to change. That’s necessary. But still it’s not a guarantee. Father John Harvey, a respected expert, said not too long ago that he finds about 3 in 10 motivated individuals are able to “come out of the condition” with therapy. That’s not every time, and that’s not never. It’s about 30%. It could be as study progresses that the success rate will go up.

You bring up a point that I find interesting and hadn’t thought of before and that’s the boundaries of laity involvement which I agree has in some instances gone way overboard. But if that is what the faithful want, then why are people leaving the Catholic church and a very large percentage of them turning up in Orthodox churches who are not as open to laity engagement? There’s a disconnect in there somewhere don’t you think?

Well I would say, whether people are going to Catholic or Orthodox or Protestant or whatever churches, the laity has to be more involved nowadays because society no longer looks to the clergy for leadership. It’s not just the sex scandal that caused that change, it’s been since the 60’s and even the 50’s when they took prayer out of schools. God is no longer a given in society. And so religious leaders are not as influential as they once were. But individuals and groups of citizens still have influence, and so that is how Christ has to be present in the public square.

 

[Digger71]

My question really wishes to address the method by which the person afflicted with SSA would have been advised to utilize to remain chaste prior to the advent of pschotherapy. An earnest disciple of Christ seeking to refrain from homosexual behavior would have had to avail himself of other curative processes which would have included prayer, devotion, Confession, penance, and other religious practices. Were these folks “doomed” without the “advantages” of psychotherapy?

If you think epilepsy is a sign of demonic possession a excorcism is required, if you think it is a medical condition, then drugs are required.

See the importance of the world view?