Lost the cultural debate on homosexuality

[gardenswithkids]

I am watching CNN and basketball player Tim Hardaway made some anti-gay comments about the a gay player. …I don’t think the way he responded was loving, but I am amazed by how it seems univerally accepted that homosexuality is normal, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a bigotted fool…

The specifics of what Hardaway said aside, this situation does *not *show that homosexuality is universally accepted, otherwise he wouldn’t have made any anti-gay comments in the first place. Rather I think it shows that at some guteral level, most people find homosexual activity unacceptable. That is why we don’t hear words like “sodomy” used in the discussion by the other side because they don’t want to draw attention to the actual acts that they say are okay. Down deep, most other members of our society still know sodomy is wrong, even if the comentators on CNN are to afraid to say it.

Have we lost the culture war? What are we to do?

No, we haven’t lost the culture war. I see you brought up Peter Kreeft in a later post. Have you read Kreeft’s book How to Win the Culture War ? Good book. First he advices us to recognize that there is a culture war–this isn’t just a “cultural debate” as the thread title called it. It is a war, and we don’t fight *against *homosexuals–we fight *for *them, because it is their very souls at stake, (to say nothing about their physical health, as sodomy harms the GI tract.)

What are we to do? The point I like best that Kreeft makes is simply stated, we should be saints. Not mousy, little, “nice” people–but saints. You know, the kind of people who speak the truth in love, even under threat of being called “intollerant” or “bigoted”. We must speaks and *live *in such a way that even the spiritually blind might see and the spiritually deaf might hear.

 

[Kendy]

The specifics of what Hardaway said aside, this situation does *not *show that homosexuality is universally accepted, otherwise he wouldn’t have made any anti-gay comments in the first place. Rather I think it shows that at some guteral level, most people find homosexual activity unacceptable. That is why we don’t hear words like “sodomy” used in the discussion by the other side because they don’t want to draw attention to the actual acts that they say are okay. Down deep, most other members of our society still know sodomy is wrong, even if the comentators on CNN are to afraid to say it.

I hope you are right.

No, we haven’t lost the culture war. I see you brought up Peter Kreeft in a later post. Have you read Kreeft’s book How to Win the Culture War ? Good book. First he advices us to recognize that there is a culture war–this isn’t just a “cultural debate” as the thread title called it. It is a war, and we don’t fight *against *homosexuals–we fight *for *them, because it is their very souls at stake, (to say nothing about their physical health, as sodomy harms the GI tract.)

What are we to do? The point I like best that Kreeft makes is simply stated, we should be saints. Not mousy, little, “nice” people–but saints. You know, the kind of people who speak the truth in love, even under threat of being called “intollerant” or “bigoted”. We must speaks and *live *in such a way that even the spiritually blind might see and the spiritually deaf might hear.

I suppose this is all we can do, but I am just shocked by how much ground we have lost.

 

[Exalt]

Have we lost the culture war?

…Nations are passing laws that restrict what people can say about homosexuality…

Just because gay people want some equality in terms of adoption and civil marriage doesn’t mean they want to restrict your freedom of speech. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Which nations are passing such laws? Certainly not the U.S.

…what Hardaway said aside, this situation does *not *show that homosexuality is universally accepted, otherwise he wouldn’t have made any anti-gay comments in the first place. Rather I think it shows that at some guteral level, most people find homosexual activity unacceptable. That is why we don’t hear words like “sodomy” used in the discussion by the other side because they don’t want to draw attention to the actual acts that they say are okay. Down deep, most other members of our society still know sodomy is wrong, even if the comentators on CNN are to afraid to say it.

…(to say nothing about their physical health, as sodomy harms the GI tract.)

Why are you so obsessed with anal sex? It’s as if you think homosexuality is defined by anal sex. But it’s not. Most of the gay men I know don’t practice it. Of course, all gay women don’t practice it.

 

[Mirdath]

Why does it have to be a ‘war’ in the first place? Pretty much all of us have the same sort of backyard-picket-fence dream in mind for our respective lives, no matter our religion, ethnicity, gender, or orientation. Can’t we all just realize we may not think exactly alike and get along?

 

[Kendy]

Just because gay people want some equality in terms of adoption and civil marriage doesn’t mean they want to restrict your freedom of speech. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Sweeden, and possibly Canada.

Which nations are passing such laws? Certainly not the U.S.

Why are you so obsessed with anal sex? It’s as if you think homosexuality is defined by anal sex. But it’s not. Most of the gay men I know don’t practice it. Of course, all gay women don’t practice it.

No one is obsessed with anal sex. And is it possible for catholics to have a discussions about what concerns us without having people challenge us on that? The church has spoken on this issue, we accept her teachings, now, the only thing that concerns us is how do we address the culture?

 

[Kendy]

Why does it have to be a ‘war’ in the first place? Pretty much all of us have the same sort of backyard-picket-fence dream in mind for our respective lives, no matter our religion, ethnicity, gender, or orientation. Can’t we all just realize we may not think exactly alike and get along?

We cannoy just agree to disagree on something we think attacks the sacrament of marriage and the fabric of society.

 

[Sixtus]

I think that anyone who condemns what appears to be homosexuality are incredibly naive as they simply do not know the facts. They are condemning without knoweldge. That is not justice but lynching.

I advocate tolerance, inclusivity and ‘not making judgments of others’, not only is this forbidden by Christ Mk 11: 25,

I am XX genotype. But I have a male body [albeit I do not shave], 1 in every 600 live births this anomaly occurs, but only 1 in 30,000 gets detected medically and treated.

We are offered the alternatives of a physical sex change or to receive male hormone to make us appear more ‘man-like’. Of course we are sterile as we do not have viable testicles, but it does raise a very serious question that 'if we engage in a relationship with a male, am I homosexual, or relationship with a woman am I lesbian?

You see there is no clear answers. So people should not judge if they see two apparent men together as they just do not know whether one of them is in fact a woman.

 

[Sixtus]

I think that anyone who condemns what appears to be homosexuality are incredibly naive as they simply do not know the facts. They are condemning without knoweldge. That is not justice but lynching.

I advocate tolerance, inclusivity and not making judgments of others, this forbidden by Christ Mk 11: 25, you might also want to check out Mt 7:1-2.

I am XX genotype. But I have a male body, 1 in every 600 live births this anomaly occurs, but only 1 in 30,000 gets detected medically and treated.

We are offered the alternatives of a physical sex change or to receive male hormone to make us appear more ‘man-like’. Of course we are sterile as we do not have viable testicles, but it does raise a very serious question that 'if we engage in a relationship with a male, am I homosexual, or relationship with a woman am I lesbian?

To prevent you insulting me as has already happened elsewhere, we are not transvestites!!!

You see there is no clear answers. So people should not judge if they see two apparent men together as they just do not know whether one of them is in fact a woman.

 

[Kendy]

I think that anyone who condemns what appears to be homosexuality are incredibly naive as they simply do not know the facts. They are condemning without knoweldge. That is not justice but lynching.

I advocate tolerance, inclusivity and not making judgments of others, this forbidden by Christ Mk 11: 25, you might also want to check out Mt 7:1-2.

I am XX genotype. But I have a male body, 1 in every 600 live births this anomaly occurs, but only 1 in 30,000 gets detected medically and treated.

We are offered the alternatives of a physical sex change or to receive male hormone to make us appear more ‘man-like’. Of course we are sterile as we do not have viable testicles, but it does raise a very serious question that 'if we engage in a relationship with a male, am I homosexual, or relationship with a woman am I lesbian?

To prevent you insulting me as has already happened elsewhere, we are not transvestites!!!

You see there is no clear answers. So people should not judge if they see two apparent men together as they just do not know whether one of them is in fact a woman.

Your situation is unique and outside of the bounds of what I want to discussion.

 

[Augustine22]

Until enough people in the majority get far enough out of their happy zone to DO something, the tide will keep going this way. Most people have basically pretty decent lives and they don’t want to take it on because its unpleasant. I think that’s it in a nutshell. The majority doesn’t care enough yet…hopefully they will before its too late.

 

[blessedtoo]

I am watching CNN and basketball player Tim Hardaway made some anti-gay comments about the a gay player. Now, I don’t think his comments were wise. He basically said, “Yes, I am homophobic. I don’t like gays” to an accusation of bigotry.

I don’t think the way he responded was loving, but I am amazed by how it seems univerally accepted that homosexuality is normal, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a bigotted fool.

After the intreview, a panel of sports commentors got together to condemn him. One said, it doesn’t make sense to him that that a black man would want to exclude someone. I guess they are now the same thing.

Anyway, all of this is concerning me. Nations are passing laws that restrict what people can say about homosexuality, catholic charities are being forced to accept gay adoption, and the majority of catholics I know are in favor of gay marriage.

Have we lost the culture war? What are we to do?

Kendy

I really feel your pain, my friend. And agree completely. I was listening to talk radio today and this was the #1 topic of discussion. One of the commentators mentioned that in the NBA, there are countless players who have criminal records for drugs, assault, and spousal abuse, not to mention how many players have numerous children from numerous women. Yet there is no public outcry about the way these folks live their public lives. But if someone says something anti-gay, it’s the only topic of conversation and that person is reviled by society. Like you, I am not going to defend his comments about hating gays. It was reprehensible. But I think his response speaks to the overall culture of male dominated sports more than anything else.

As someone who lived the “lifestyle” for many years (long time ago), has a sister who identifies as “lesbian” and has many leftover friends from back in the day, I have been on both sides of this issue. And I do fear that we have lost the war. I can’t imagine anything, short of divine intervention, turning back the clock on this march toward cultural decline. The homosexual community is well organized, well financed, and well placed. Their “pride” emboldens them to speak out in ways that would have been impossible even 15 years ago. Because they have the full support of 90 percent of the media, their cause will always be represented in a positive light. Our small voices in the wilderness will continue to be marginalized and decried as prejudiced and bigoted. What I find most depressing is the prevalance of this attitude of acceptance and “tolerance” among Catholics. These days, I am not so much concerned about the conversion of the culture at large as I am about the re-conversion of Catholics.

 

[WenckebachCath]

May I just give a little perspective here and call your attention to the fact the the heterosexual community really doesn’t have a leg to stand on to be debating homosexuality. Our own moral state of affairs is so bleak that we would be hypocrites to be pointing fingers.

Societal moral standards have been in retreat for many years. I would equivocate this last battle over homosexuality to Custer’s Last Stand. It is futile in my opinion.

 

[blessedtoo]

May I just give a little perspective here and call your attention to the fact the the heterosexual community really doesn’t have a leg to stand on to be debating homosexuality. Our own moral state of affairs is so bleak that we would be hypocrites to be pointing fingers.

Societal moral standards have been in retreat for many years. I would equivocate this last battle over homosexuality to Custer’s Last Stand. It is futile in my opinion.

So because heterosexuals have fallen so far, we should let the downward spiral continue without opposition? Because we all sin, we should just stay quiet while more and more sin is heaped upon the society in which we live? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[WenckebachCath]

So because heterosexuals have fallen so far, we should let the downward spiral continue without opposition? Because we all sin, we should just stay quiet while more and more sin is heaped upon the society in which we live? Am I understanding you correctly?

No, you are not. I am explaining why the heterosexual community has lost the fight. There aren’t enough people who even care because most heteros are hedonistic and steeped in their own sins.

We’ve already lost this war. It started with the Pill, then legalized abortions, liberalized divorce laws, and so forth. This is the last taboo to fall, unless pedophilia and polygamy gain acceptance…

 

[blessedtoo]

No, you are not. I am explaining why the heterosexual community has lost the fight. There aren’t enough people who even care because most heteros are hedonistic and steeped in their own sins.

We’ve already lost this war. It started with the Pill, then legalized abortions, liberalized divorce laws, and so forth. This is the last taboo to fall, unless pedophilia and polygamy gain acceptance…

I honestly can’t disagree with you.

 

[wjp984]

Do you really think that anyone should be “giving children out”. Children are human beings; not some kind of commodity to be “given out”. Each child that needs to be cared for away from his/her parents should be placed with a family that will best fulfil that individual child’s needs. Some of those children will need a female parent, some will need a mother and a father, and some will have other needs that could be served with a single sex couple or a single parent. The discussion is not regarding whether particular couples/individuals should be “given” a child, but rather which is the best placement for the individual child.

Best wishes, C.

Well I highly doubt there is any child that is best with a gay couple or a single parent.

 

[emile]

I am watching CNN and basketball player Tim Hardaway made some anti-gay comments about the a gay player. Now, I don’t think his comments were wise. He basically said, “Yes, I am homophobic. I don’t like gays” to an accusation of bigotry.

I don’t think the way he responded was loving, but I am amazed by how it seems univerally accepted that homosexuality is normal, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a bigotted fool.

After the intreview, a panel of sports commentors got together to condemn him. One said, it doesn’t make sense to him that that a black man would want to exclude someone. I guess they are now the same thing.

Anyway, all of this is concerning me. Nations are passing laws that restrict what people can say about homosexuality, catholic charities are being forced to accept gay adoption, and the majority of catholics I know are in favor of gay marriage.

Have we lost the culture war? What are we to do?

Kendy

The church as far as I know is against pre marital sex. Does it really matter who is doing it,eg male to male female to female male to female, it should be a concerted effort against all of them not just one group

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Why are you so obsessed with anal sex? It’s as if you think homosexuality is defined by anal sex. But it’s not. Most of the gay men I know don’t practice it. Of course, all gay women don’t practice it.

Why then bother to be gay? People run around pretending to lust after men and then they don’t perform? What’s the point? No one, at least no one I know, objects to men having men as friends or women having women as friends. The issue is precisely about men having sexual intercourse with men and women with women. Beyond that there is no issue except as the gay activists try to make one up.

If I had an unnatural attraction for a person of the same sex but remained chaste, as you suggest that they do, I’d stay as far away from the typical activist as I possibly could.

You know this. Why are you playing this game?

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

May I just give a little perspective here and call your attention to the fact the the heterosexual community really doesn’t have a leg to stand on to be debating homosexuality. Our own moral state of affairs is so bleak that we would be hypocrites to be pointing fingers.

Societal moral standards have been in retreat for many years. I would equivocate this last battle over homosexuality to Custer’s Last Stand. It is futile in my opinion.

Sexual desires, neither natural or perverse, define me. I am in Christ. Christ is who and what defines me. I am a human being. I am not a hypocrite and neither are those who are truely in Christ.

You may be right about your last comment. But can we sit by and watch this perversion? I’m certainly not saved by society. I’m saved by Christ in the Church. Do you think we need to return to a fortress mentality in order to survive?

CDL

 

[mlchance]

Today’s irony brough to you by (with emphasis added):

What is so wrong with allowing gays to be together and live in a state of mortal sin if that is their choice?

Unlike abortion where a human’s life is at stake, this mortal sin…

– Mark L. Chance.