Lost the cultural debate on homosexuality

[gardenswithkids]

No, you are not. I am explaining why the heterosexual community has lost the fight. There aren’t enough people who even care because most heteros are hedonistic and steeped in their own sins.

We’ve already lost this war. It started with the Pill, then legalized abortions, liberalized divorce laws, and so forth. This is the last taboo to fall, unless pedophilia and polygamy gain acceptance…

You might explain why the heterosexual community has largely lost the WILL to fight, but the battle is not yet lost. Don’t give up so easily.

Heterosexuals are weakened by our own sin. The most quoted Bible verse these day is “judge not lest you be judged”. Most don’t wish their own sins to be judged, so they allow others to wallow in sin as well. Our own personal battles with chastity and purity matter, because those sins weaken us and rob us of our will to fight the larger cultural battles.

Once we overcome our own tendency to sins against chasity and charity, removing the logs from our own eyes, then we can help others. And we must fight this battle valiently with compassion, because if we loose it you have correctly identified the next battle field.

 

[Kendy]

These days, I am not so much concerned about the conversion of the culture at large as I am about the re-conversion of Catholics.

Aint that the truth.

 

[Kendy]

May I just give a little perspective here and call your attention to the fact the the heterosexual community really doesn’t have a leg to stand on to be debating homosexuality. Our own moral state of affairs is so bleak that we would be hypocrites to be pointing fingers.

Societal moral standards have been in retreat for many years. I would equivocate this last battle over homosexuality to Custer’s Last Stand. It is futile in my opinion.

It is absolutely not futile. The more ground we lose, the more work we have to do. We need to do everything in our power to prevent the normalization of homosexual relationships.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

No, you are not. I am explaining why the heterosexual community has lost the fight. There aren’t enough people who even care because most heteros are hedonistic and steeped in their own sins.

We’ve already lost this war. It started with the Pill, then legalized abortions, liberalized divorce laws, and so forth. This is the last taboo to fall, unless pedophilia and polygamy gain acceptance…

Ok, I agree with you, but we cant just throw up our hands and accept defeat.

 

[Irish_Becca]

Don’t lose hope. Opposition to gay marriage is increasing, according to polls.

cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml

And that’s a CBS (i.e., liberal) poll. The best thing we can do is continue to be vocal on the 'Net and in the “real world.” We’re doing God’s work.

I think it is laughable to compare the plight of African-Americans to gays. The two don’t even come close! I wonder what the feelings are among black people about that?

 

[Kendy]

You might explain why the heterosexual community has largely lost the WILL to fight, but the battle is not yet lost. Don’t give up so easily.

Heterosexuals are weakened by our own sin. The most quoted Bible verse these day is “judge not lest you be judged”. Most don’t wish their own sins to be judged, so they allow others to wallow in sin as well. Our own personal battles with chastity and purity matter, because those sins weaken us and rob us of our will to fight the larger cultural battles.

Once we overcome our own tendency to sins against chasity and charity, removing the logs from our own eyes, then we can help others. And we must fight this battle valiently with compassion, because if we loose it you have correctly identified the next battle field.

Recently, the Sundance Film Festival exploring bestilality in a “nonjudgemental perspective.”

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

Don’t lose hope. Opposition to gay marriage is increasing, according to polls.

cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml

And that’s a CBS (i.e., liberal) poll. The best thing we can do is continue to be vocal on the 'Net and in the “real world.” We’re doing God’s work.

I think it is laughable to compare the plight of African-Americans to gays. The two don’t even come close! I wonder what the feelings are among black people about that?

Well, feelings vary. Some are upset by it, and some see a connection.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I think it is laughable to compare the plight of African-Americans to gays. The two don’t even come close! I wonder what the feelings are among black people about that?

Okay, a bit off topic, but I want to ask since some compare the “plight” of homosexuals to African-American. There was a time in the history of the U.S. when white actors wore “black face”, which now people consider very racist. Does anyone else think the whole transvestite, cross dressing thing by some homosexual men makes a mockery of real womanhood? I think men dressing up as women compares to white actors in blackface, and I find it offensive.

 

[Titus]

Don’t lose hope. Opposition to gay marriage is increasing, according to polls.

cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml

And that’s a CBS (i.e., liberal) poll. The best thing we can do is continue to be vocal on the 'Net and in the “real world.” We’re doing God’s work.

I think it is laughable to compare the plight of African-Americans to gays. The two don’t even come close! I wonder what the feelings are among black people about that?

The darkest hour is just before the dawn. And of course it is ridiculous to compare black people to homosexuals, one is natural, unchosen, God-given; the other is a choice (to do the sexual acts, not the preference).

Catholics must always ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’, This doesn’t mean avoiding the difficult truth- we are not helping if we do so.

 

[Lrning]

Just reading this thread brings up that gnawing fear deep inside me. I’m afraid for my children’s future. Our society is, for the most part, morally bankrupt. My children will be going to a high school that has a gay/straight alliance and sponsors gay pride activities. They’ll grow up with media that portrays people in sinful situations and manages to glamorize those situations. Can you even find a prime time program that doesn’t include adultery, fornication, or homosexuality? And yet, my children are also what gives me hope for the future of our society. I will do my best to make sure they love the sinners and hate the sins.

It also helps to listen to good Catholic radio. We have Relevant Radio here, and it’s great to know there are so many others out there that feel the same way.

I’ll also be checking out Peter Kreeft’s book.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

If you look at human history in regard to social issues you will see repeated cycles

*One party or parties subjugates a specific party

The requirement needed to maintain subjugation become increasingly hideous as the oppressed party attempts to achieve freedom

The “other parties” separate from the original support of subjugation, this usually results in the originator becoming extreme to maintain their subjugation advantage.

The extreme actions turn the greater society against the originator, which is usually done by promoting the subjugated party

Society reaches equilibrium or repeats the cycle. *

So in your specific question your real answer may be that as a heterosexual you did not know of the suffering by homosexuals, now you see the society turning against the bulling, beating, shame, etc. So society is refusing to condone the poor treatment of people who are homosexual.

btw Do you know what psychiatrists same abut “gay-hate”? Look it up it is rather interesting.

 

[Philthy]

There is a much bigger war going on in the world - the promotion of homosexuality as normative is simply a battle within that war. The full meaning of the term “human being” is the larger fight which precludes and encompasses all battles of human sexuality. Its relationship to human procreation as being distinctly and essentially separate from animal procreation needs to be understood before one can address what is fundamentally wrong with homosexuality. John Paul 2 has provided an increcible gift to the Church and paved much of this path through his “Theology of the Body” - but that will take time, continued effort and prayer.
There is a lot of cleaning house that needs to be accomplished with respect to heterosexuality before we can hope to preach to homosexuals - don’t forget that. Christian complacency with fornication, adultery and divorce is a stumbling block to providing the effective witness to those people involved with other sexual disorders (pornography, homosexuality, etc) and, IMHO, needs to rigorously addressed before much serious progress can take place.

 

[Other_Eric]

Don’t lose hope. Opposition to gay marriage is increasing, according to polls.

cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml

And that’s a CBS (i.e., liberal) poll. The best thing we can do is continue to be vocal on the 'Net and in the “real world.” We’re doing God’s work.

I think it is laughable to compare the plight of African-Americans to gays. The two don’t even come close! I wonder what the feelings are among black people about that?

A poll that is nearly three years old cannot be used to accurately gauge the mood of the electorate today. Recently, we have seen a decline in support for state-level marriage amendments, (1) most dismally illustrated by the conduct of a former marriage defender in Arizona:

State Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, signed on to a bill this month calling for a ballot measure asking voters to define marriage in the state constitution as between as man and a woman. But this week he back-pedaled, calling the move a mistake; (2)

four states are preparing to grant marriage-in-everything-but-name to same-sex couples; (3) homosexual activists are becoming more and more politically savvy about how to advance their agenda; (4) and even popular Republican governors are backing away from the defense of marriage. (5)

In all, the fight against perversion is not going well for the defenders of Truth and there are indeed some very dark times ahead.

(1) Martiga, Lohn. “Roe Anniversary Shows Influcence of Social Issues Shrinking.” Associated Press. January 22, 2007. StarTribune.com. Available online at: startribune.com/587/story/953009.html

(2) Scarpinato, Daniel. “Gay Marriage Debate Stirs Anew In Legislature.” Arizona Daily Star. January 20, 2007. Available online at: azstarnet.com/allheadlines/165467

(3) Foust, Michael. “Same-Sex Civil Unions Could Pass in 4 States This Year; Activists Optimistic About Chances.” Bp News. February 16, 2007. Baptist Press. Available online at: bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=24980

(4) Green, Joshua. “They Won’t Know What Hit Them.” The Atlantic Online. March, 2007. The Atlantic Monthly, Volume 299, No. 2; 76-83. Available online at: theatlantic.com/doc/200703/tim-gill?ca=88YxnWRy8GBMLC3GT6PoO%2B6N8QoZcM7MtDEL6QWSaAQ%3D

(5) “Gov. Crist Thinks GOP Shouldn’t Spend Money on Marriage Amendment.” First Coast News. February 14, 2007. Available online at: firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=75875

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

I really feel your pain, my friend. And agree completely. I was listening to talk radio today and this was the #1 topic of discussion. One of the commentators mentioned that in the NBA, there are countless players who have criminal records for drugs, assault, and spousal abuse, not to mention how many players have numerous children from numerous women. Yet there is no public outcry about the way these folks live their public lives. But if someone says something anti-gay, it’s the only topic of conversation and that person is reviled by society. Like you, I am not going to defend his comments about hating gays. It was reprehensible. But I think his response speaks to the overall culture of male dominated sports more than anything else.

As someone who lived the “lifestyle” for many years (long time ago), has a sister who identifies as “lesbian” and has many leftover friends from back in the day, I have been on both sides of this issue. And I do fear that we have lost the war. I can’t imagine anything, short of divine intervention, turning back the clock on this march toward cultural decline. The homosexual community is well organized, well financed, and well placed. Their “pride” emboldens them to speak out in ways that would have been impossible even 15 years ago. Because they have the full support of 90 percent of the media, their cause will always be represented in a positive light. Our small voices in the wilderness will continue to be marginalized and decried as prejudiced and bigoted. What I find most depressing is the prevalance of this attitude of acceptance and “tolerance” among Catholics. These days, I am not so much concerned about the conversion of the culture at large as I am about the re-conversion of Catholics.

I especially like the final sentence of the above post. Indeed, our primary concern should be our own ongoing reconversion. In concrete terms, all Catholics should study the *Catechism of the Catholic Church *and pray. We should especially pray to Our Lady of Fátima.

Preserving the Catholic balance between compassion for those experiencing same-gender attraction on the one hand, and uncompromisingly upholding the Church’s teachings on chastity on the other hand, parallels another challenge.

That other challenge is finding the right relationship between the need to remain in contact with the larger society (in order to bring it to the Faith) on the one hand, and the need to preserve our own faith and sanity and those of our families on the other hand.

I’d like to propose a new turn for this discussion: to what extent should Catholics, in order to safeguard their faith and their chance for salvation, withdraw again into the catacombs?

This question is urgent for the following reason: the open persecution of Catholics in the United States has already begun. Just ask any pharmacist who’s also a serious Catholic.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[swemperor]

I’m gay. I didn’t choose to like guys, and all I want is to be a good Catholic. I don’t want to have a boyfriend or join the gay community. I like to think of it as a challenge from God and all I really want is acceptance. Will I go to hell or be rejected from the Church for something I did not choose?

 

[quixoticly]

Catholics must always ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’, This doesn’t mean avoiding the difficult truth- we are not helping if we do so.

I think there’s also a misconception on how Catholics view homosexuals and sin and sinners in general. I was talking to a friend the other day and somewhere we came upon the subject of homosexuality and I said something along the lines of “I disapprove of homosexuality.” Then my friend said “you hate gays?” Then I said “I don’t hate gays, I hate their homosexuality.”
If people believe Catholics hate sinners, then they might start thinking…“Is this really love?” I think we should convey moreso that we don’t hate gays or sinners, we hate their sin, we want them to be with God after they die.

Also, on another point, if we just allow sin to plague our society without accurate, convincing apologetics to counter it, then why did Christ establish the Catholic Church? Did he not create the new Church to spread the word of God and to bring sinners out of their sin? A lazy view of “God doesn’t want us to help sinners because in the process we would be ‘judging’ them” should not be with Catholics. Let us love the sinners and help them to get into heaven and be with God.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I’m gay. I didn’t choose to like guys, and all I want is to be a good Catholic. I don’t want to have a boyfriend or join the gay community. I like to think of it as a challenge from God and all I really want is acceptance. Will I go to hell or be rejected from the Church for something I did not choose?

Someone who struggles with same sex attraction absolutely can be a good Catholic. You are called to live a life of chastity, just as all of us are. We are human beings, and we can rise above our sexual impulses to live holy lives. This debate is partly about people like you–some seem to think that humans must act on all sexual attractions, while we believe that humans do not have to be slaves to their sex drives.

I understand the organization called Courage ministers to Catholics with same sex attraction, helping them live chaste in accordance with Catholic teachings. Perhaps that group might offer you additional help. God bless you. couragerc.net/

 

[perez639]

I’m gay. I didn’t choose to like guys, and all I want is to be a good Catholic. I don’t want to have a boyfriend or join the gay community. I like to think of it as a challenge from God and all I really want is acceptance. Will I go to hell or be rejected from the Church for something I did not choose?

You are truely an inspiration!!! I think those who remain chase will have a reward in heaven unlike any other. To bear this cross in this life will pay off for eternity!! Think of it that way…

Peace be with you all,

Neomi

 

[gardenswithkids]

Obviously no one chooses to be gay. Why would God make someone gay and then expect them to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it not possible that the Church is mistaken on this, and that gay couples should be accepted?

God makes many people who remain single all their lives for one reason or another. He also makes people who marry and then become widows and widowers. With or without a spouse, God does not leave anyone alone. Those who carry the heavy cross of same sex attraction should know that they can draw near to God and cling to Him.

We certainly should accept persons who struggle with same sex attraction, but the Church can not accept sexual activity between two persons of the same sex. Such acts are unfitting to the dignity of the persons who perform them. Welcoming homosexual couples misleads them and others about the true nature of human sexuality.

Cecilia, the Church’s teaching against homosexual acts is very consistent with the rest of her teachings on sexualty, marriage and chastity. As pointed out earlier, the culture clash we encounter now traces back to heterosexual acceptance of contraception and divorce.

 

[Sixtus]

Your situation is unique and outside of the bounds of what I want to discussion

I apologise for raising this if it is outside of the topic of the thread.But it does illustrate the point that there is a genetic basis for behaviour and sexual preference which is against the ‘opinions’ of some on this thread who argue that such a thing does not happen. I always astonishes me how some folk masqurade ‘opinions’ as ‘fact’

Therefore people should not judge.