Lost the cultural debate on homosexuality

[Voco_proTatiano]

I know exactly what you mean… Feels like the fight has been lost already… but I don’t think it has been lost just yet. There are those of us who are still willing to fight as draining as it may be we must not give up!!

Peace be with you all,

Neomi

What are you fighting for?
People aflicted with SSA are not intrinsicly evil.
This is accepted Catholic doctrine.
However, homosexual intercourse is condemned as a sin, but so is heterosexual fornication.

Are you judging that homosexual fornication is intrinsicly worse than heterosexual fornication.

Our Lord made no judgement on this point, he just condemned fornication, but was prepared to forgive one that others were prepared to stone.

Judge not: that ye be not judged.
Condemn not: that ye be not condemned.
Forgive: that ye may be forgiven.
Release: that ye may be released.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Obviously no one chooses to be gay. Why would God make someone gay and then expect them to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it not possible that the Church is mistaken on this, and that gay couples should be accepted?

Best wishes, C.

Celibacy with Chastity does not equal loneliness.
Chastity frees one from lust and more fully allows us to really see each other and achieve a spiritual union.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I apologise for raising this if it is outside of the topic of the thread.But it does illustrate the point that there is a genetic basis for behaviour and sexual preference which is against the ‘opinions’ of some on this thread who argue that such a thing does not happen. I always astonishes me how some folk masqurade ‘opinions’ as ‘fact’

Therefore people should not judge.

We are called to judge actions and to warn our brothers if they are sinning or contemplating sin.

Because people are born with crosses to bear does not impact the Church’s teaching on chastity and lust and who may enter the sacrament of marriage.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

We are called to judge actions and to warn our brothers if they are sinning or contemplating sin.

Because people are born with crosses to bear does not impact the Church’s teaching on chastity and lust and who may enter the sacrament of marriage.

Dear Micheal,
I placed this posting in a thread that was then shut down.
It indicates that the condition of Sixtus is not unique, and further, it indicates that there are others suffering from indeterminate ands improperly judged gender than this unfortunate person.
Please check out below:

Re: How can I explain that homosexuality is wrong to a gay man?

Originally posted by Voco proTatiano
So here is my challenge: Google “Faulty gender differetiation” genetic. I will do likewise.

Originally Posted by blessedtoo
Please start another thread on this topic. It is not helpful in advancing the dialogue regarding the OP question.

Dear Friends,
I too failed this challenge, however a search on genetics and gender revealed this site:
who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
You might find it interesting.
It shows that gender is not black or white, but an infinite number of shades of grey.

 

[Irish_Becca]

I’m gay. I didn’t choose to like guys, and all I want is to be a good Catholic. I don’t want to have a boyfriend or join the gay community. I like to think of it as a challenge from God and all I really want is acceptance. Will I go to hell or be rejected from the Church for something I did not choose?

You’re an inspiration. God bless you. I definitely don’t think people choose their sexual orientation. The choice is in what you do about it.

 

[Irish_Becca]

Obviously no one chooses to be gay. Why would God make someone gay and then expect them to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it not possible that the Church is mistaken on this, and that gay couples should be accepted?

Best wishes, C.

You’d have to believe the Bible (both OT and NT) were wrong about it, as well. If you believe that Bible is truth, then the CC is not wrong on this.

 

[MikeinSD]

I suggest that concerned Catholics consider building a lifeboat in this “decadent” American society. Call it an ark if you want . I suggest the Catholic church follow the Southern Baptists and ask gay men and lesbians to leave the church. The purpose would be to make the Catholic church, at least here in the US, gay-free. The Vatican has some guidelines re: candidates for the priesthood. catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=17792

Extend the same guidelines to the laity. Perhaps the more traditional Catholics could volunteer to check out members who seem lesbian or gay. We’re pretty easy to sniff out. We’re folks who are in a romantic relationship with our same sex partners and are open about. Or single and looking for a romantic relationship with a same sex partner. Discover some gay guys or gay women attending your church and have a word with the good Father. He can tell the gay folks to stay out of the the church. It will be easy to find who is gay and get them to leave. Trespassing laws apply to churches too. If the gays don’t leave, call the cops.

I don’t think this is a win-win situation. No doubt some of my gay brothers and sisters would be furious that I seem to be backing the radical right. However, I think lesbians and gay men should not be wasting their time in an organization that doesn’t want them. There are plenty of affirming denominations. The Catholic church, following it’s theology, could be a condemning denomination. Perhaps having the church in the US be gay-free by 2010 could be a workable goal. What do y’all think?

 

[Robert_Bay]

Thread Closed

This is a news forum. We require a news article to be posted with any thread on a controversial topic. In this case, the topic seems to be “Lost the cultural debate on homosexuality”

If you wish to discuss Social Justice issues, there is now a separate forum for that.

There is also an apologetics forum if you wish to discuss Catholic Church teaching and why it is there.

If you wish to discuss Moral Theology, there is a separate forum for that as well.

Thank you.

 

[Titus]

I’m gay. I didn’t choose to like guys, and all I want is to be a good Catholic. I don’t want to have a boyfriend or join the gay community. I like to think of it as a challenge from God and all I really want is acceptance. Will I go to hell or be rejected from the Church for something I did not choose?

God loves you. That’s #1. And there is nothing you can do that he will not forgive as long as our repent. And you are living in fidelity to the teaching of the Church. We do not choose our preferences, we choose our actions. You are in my prayers.

 

[Other_Eric]

I’m gay. I didn’t choose to like guys, and all I want is to be a good Catholic. I don’t want to have a boyfriend or join the gay community. I like to think of it as a challenge from God and all I really want is acceptance. Will I go to hell or be rejected from the Church for something I did not choose?

If you want to be a good Catholic, you will stop self-identifying as “gay.” Such a label is a contradiction to everything Christ’s Church seeks to establish. While you may not have been directly responsible for your same-sex attractions, that does not mean that their continued presence is entirely out of your control. I encourage you to speak with a reparative therapist so that you may see that there is indeed a choice to be made by you concerning your disorder. Further, though you may want acceptance, you cannot both long for that and long to be a good Catholic. The Way of the Cross is not about acceptance, it is about ridicule, being hated by men and even the feeling of being abandoned by God. You cannot embrace “acceptance” and Christ at the same time.

 

[Tim_Hayes]

the reality is that you should be telling people that homosexual is the equivalent of paedophile.

Think of this throw the Catholic Churches own figures against them. Approximately 90% of sexual abuse by priests etc is on males.

Here we have a group of people (priests) who generally we would say are less likely to be or wanting to be sex offenders, however despite that 90% of all sex offences are aginst the males children.

And the truth is that all priest in the catholic church are male.

Despite the number of priests/clergy who are offenders, the number are still way below the "average’ in terms of percapita sex offenders.

The fastest growth industry in sex offences are those who report same sex offences. There are many in the field of child investigation that believe that sexual abuse of males by males is not that far behind that of male to female. If we think of the fact that at an absolute maximum the number in the population being gay are 3% then one can say that the chances of a homosexual abusing your son are extremely high, relatviely speaking in relation to a straitman abusing your daughter.

Those of you who don’t believe what I say do the research for yourself. I use to have the figures but only those who are willing to examine the truth will look at them and most people aren’t.

 

[Maxply]

re: thread topic misconception:

I don’t believe our society really engages in serious, sustained debate. It’s all a matter of slam-dunking with sound bites.

Sexuality is a complex phenomenon, and it is a combination of MULTIPLE FACTORS, including the physical facts of gender and socio-environmental developments. The quickest way to express the idea is, “as the branch is bent, so grows the tree.”

(So I think it’s possible that many people who identify themselves as gay, have likely been encouraged to do so by other gays or people sympathetic to gay stuff, and the idea of a gay organization in a high school, during the years of the formation of sexual identity, is REALLY CONDEMNABLE).

In a nutshell, this is again a situation where a complex, complicated subject gets maltreated by our contemporary political style.

 

[WenckebachCath]

re: thread topic misconception:

I don’t believe our society really engages in serious, sustained debate. It’s all a matter of slam-dunking with sound bites.

Sexuality is a complex phenomenon, and it is a combination of MULTIPLE FACTORS, including the physical facts of gender and socio-environmental developments. The quickest way to express the idea is, “as the branch is bent, so grows the tree.”

(So I think it’s possible that many people who identify themselves as gay, have likely been encouraged to do so by other gays or people sympathetic to gay stuff, and the idea of a gay organization in a high school, during the years of the formation of sexual identity, is REALLY CONDEMNABLE).

In a nutshell, this is again a situation where a complex, complicated subject gets maltreated by our contemporary political style.

This is a very intelligent post, I totally agree.

 

[Titus]

the reality is that you should be telling people that homosexual is the equivalent of paedophile.

That’s an unbelievably cruel post, and unchristian. The true Christian teaching on homosexuality is one of love and justice- you are peddling homophobia, or so it would seem from this post.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Dear Micheal,
I placed this posting in a thread that was then shut down.
It indicates that the condition of Sixtus is not unique, and further, it indicates that there are others suffering from indeterminate ands improperly judged gender than this unfortunate person.
Please check out below:

I have empathy for anyone with a cross like this to bear. The best solution is to practice the virtue of chastity and follow the great commandment. These conditions do not alter the teaching at all, but confirm the narrow path.

God bless you.

michael

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I do not know of a church teaching about “being gay” nor one about calling yourself “gay”. Similarly I do not know of a church teaching selecting or prohibiting the selection of friendship. I do know of teachings about participating in various forms of sex. I have no problem sitting in the pew by a “gay” person who knows I may be I have already done such. Similarly I do not believe 90% of the sex abuse occurring in the church is “male on male”. I suspect we rarely hear of the priest who slipped on his celibacy vow with a woman, yet we hear 1,000 times about the pedophile. It seems to me the statistic >50% divorce rate, some say 70% adultery rate, what(?) 90% fornication rate, indicate sex problems are a continuous human condition. If you review the Old Testament a lot of this is mentioned there too so it is not a new problem.

At the same time when I see children who are severely handicapped, I think of how piety we are about are sexual desires

 

[Jaypeeto3]

olrl.org/prophecy/daysdark.shtml

KENDY –

Here above is a link to some info about the
Three Days of Darkness prophecies.
They go back hundreds of years and come from
quite a few Saints.

I don’t want to derail the thread, but you did ask me
for more info.
God bless,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

 

[Jaypeeto3]

KENDY -
On the link I provided, I didn’t realize the last paragraph contained derogatory statements about the post Vatican 2 Church. I thought it was just an article about the Three Days.
I apologize for that. There are many other articles on this subject which do not contain insulting statements about the Vatican II church.

God bless,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

 

[Other_Eric]

That’s an unbelievably cruel post, and unchristian. The true Christian teaching on homosexuality is one of love and justice- you are peddling homophobia, or so it would seem from this post.

This is without doubt the biggest load of rubbish that I have ever read. It is incredibly stupid to suggest that male gay paedophiles molest boy children, and male straight paedophiles molest girl children. Paedophiles have a sexual orientation towards children.

To state that homosexual is the equivalent of paedophile is homophobic, stupid, and outright offensive.

C.

It seems to me that the words “homophobia” and “unchristian” are used as a quick and easy substitute for rational thought. Nowhere is there any citation to anything that would demonstrate that Mr. Hayes is wrong. Once it is understood that the condition of having same-sex attractions arises from serious pathology, then it does not take that great a leap of imagination to believe that those attractions may form only the beginning of a seriously depraved sexuality. Indeed, the John Jay statistical report and research conducted by Dr. Paul Cameron tend to bear out everything Mr. Hayes has written. It would be nice if someone actually attempted to engage this argument rather than shut it down immediately with a few choice buzzwords.

 

[Sixtus]

I suggest the Catholic church follow the Southern Baptists and ask gay men and lesbians to leave the church.

I agree, anyone who commits a sin no matter how trivial or venial, even if it is accidental, should be asked to leave the church.

Us ‘holier than thou’ saints in our own lifetimes, puritans who are guarranteed heaven while you sinful roman catholics who dare to spend less than 10 hours a day in prayer. I know one guy who says he prays for less than 8-hours a day, you are doomed to rot in hell for all eternity.

My neighbour confessed to me that he once looked at his naken body in the mirror. He is guilty of grave mortal sin, so serous that I am not sure that he can ever be forgiven