Lot and his daughters

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Acerunner

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First off God bless you foot reading my thread. I have been searching for the better part of a week for some kind of reference material to deal with my particular problem.
I am currently engaged in a dialogue with my friend that is vehemently anti Christian. To make a long story short he has taken to pointing out contradictions in the Bible. One of the passages that has been giving me the hardest time is Gen 19:4-9 where Lot offers up his daughters to be raped by the locals.
Note for the question: how can this be reconciled with the teachings in the new testament and hour could this be seen as a good thing.
I realize that this is one of the MANY stories in the OT that seem morally questionable. I’m just tired of sifting through thread after thread after thread in search of an answer.
God bless,
-=Alan=-
 
Acerunner said:
First off God bless you foot reading my thread. I have been searching for the better part of a week for some kind of reference material to deal with my particular problem.
I am currently engaged in a dialogue with my friend that is vehemently anti Christian. To make a long story short he has taken to pointing out contradictions in the Bible. One of the passages that has been giving me the hardest time is Gen 19:4-9 where Lot offers up his daughters to be raped by the locals.
Note for the question: how can this be reconciled with the teachings in the new testament and hour could this be seen as a good thing.
I realize that this is one of the MANY stories in the OT that seem morally questionable. I’m just tired of sifting through thread after thread after thread in search of an answer.
God bless,
-=Alan=-
Click to expand...
The simple answer is Lot’s actions can’t be reconciled with the teachings of the new testament. The bible does not lift up Lot as an example to be followed it simply describes his actions. I suppose the fact that Lot is spared the destruction that befalls Sodom and Gomorrah might make someone think that God approved of everything Lot did but there is no specific judgement, good or bad, stated about Lot’s actions. Perhaps, if we must give a reason for God’s sparing of Lot, we could consider that Lot was saved for Abraham’s sake. Lot was his nephew.

There is noone in the old testament whose actions are without flaws. Moses committed murder. David committed adultery and conspired to have the husband of his secret mistress killed. And these two are regarded as “heros” of the old testament.

The only person that we claim to have been without sin is Jesus. (well, maybe His Mother too).

I am wondering what contradiction he finds in the story about Lot. The story describes what Lot did. What is the contradiction?

I wonder if your friend knows what the daughters did to their father later on. They would not be held as models for behavior either.
 
it shows that if we live and breath among evil it will manifest in us as well.

the culture was so corrupt Lot was caught up in it too. it seemed the thing to do.

even he was part of the zeitgeist. spirit of the times.
 
Our pastor did a study on this a few weeks ago.

Lot was spared for Abraham’s sake, pretty much.
As to how he/Lot was called righteous in the NT, well, we weren’t told how
his life turned out after Sodom/Gomorrah. Perhaps it changed him completely.

I’ve wondered the same thing myself.
 
Those were wild times and Sodom was the wildest place.
We can see that Lot lost there everything.
In his values, Lot honored the guests more than his family, and that was the only way to protect them because he knew he can’t stand against the crowd. He had to take care of the guests, and he was prepared to take the full blow.
Beside those examples of wild times and places, the same about Abraham when he didn’t want to say that Sara is his wife; the king liked her and to keep their lives Abraham said that Sara is his sister (which was true, they had the same father but different mothers); killing a man was a valid way for taking his wife, and who was to judge the king? That was a way out for him.
Nothing happened because of the God direct intervention.
About Lot daughters, they didn’t lust for their father; they wanted kids and they thought their father was the last man on earth; they personally knew Noah and saw many marriages inside a family (ex.Abraham with Sara ) and took it one step further;they knew their father would not agree and they gave him wine until he was drunk.
Wild times, not long before there was the flood, then they saw the plains distroyed…
 
trogiah said:
…The only person that we claim to have been without sin is Jesus. (well, maybe His Mother too)…
Click to expand...
You claim to be a Catholic and yet unsure about Mother Mary’s immaculate nature???
 
Most of the contradictions I’ve come to realize are moral or scientific in nature. He brings up the resurrection story and the variances between the gospels. Honestly i’m not sure he’s ever cracked a Bible before because most of his objections can be explained by simply reading a chapter or two on either side of the cited passage.
 
This is from the Haydock Bible
Lot tries by every means to divert them from their purpose; being well assured, that they would have nothing to do with his daughters, who were promised to some of the inhabitants. He endeavours to gain time, hoping perhaps that his guests would escape by some back way, while he is talking to the people. (Rev. George Haydock Haydock Bible)
Click to expand...
 
By the way, I highly recommend using this link called the Aquinas Study Bible, it has commentary for every passage of the Bible plus a great tool that has what is called a Harmony of the Gospels, which takes on every passage in the 4 Gospels that seem to contradict each other, which is a work done by St. Augustine and I edited so it can be reader friendly. sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home
 
COPLAND_3 said:
By the way, I highly recommend using this link called the Aquinas Study Bible, it has commentary for every passage of the Bible plus a great tool that has what is called a Harmony of the Gospels, which takes on every passage in the 4 Gospels that seem to contradict each other, which is a work done by St. Augustine and I edited so it can be reader friendly. sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. He did actually bring up the gospel discrepancies. This will come in really handy. If I could just ask you guys to pay for him please. he just had a really bad experience with a Christian that was shall we say less than a good representative of the faith going so far add to threaten physical violence against my friend fir not believing in Christ.
 
Acerunner said:
Thanks for the link. He did actually bring up the gospel discrepancies. This will come in really handy. If I could just ask you guys to pay for him please. he just had a really bad experience with a Christian that was shall we say less than a good representative of the faith going so far add to threaten physical violence against my friend fir not believing in Christ.
Click to expand...
I will sure pray for him! If you need any help finding answers them please let me know, I will help all I can. I did a work on the contradictions a while back, here is the link where I answer a bunch of them sites.google.com/site/jlchristianlibrary/home/answers-to-the-so-called-bible-contradictions
 
It’s also important to understnad that the fulfillment of scripture is in Jesus Christ in the gosples so we must read troubling passages in light of His teachings and character in order to see that those actions are not accepted by the Bible.
 
I’m not sure really, but I think part of the answer is in
Gen 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes…

Gen19:1And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing [them] rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that [were] at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring [them] out of this place:

So the Angels did not find 50 in Sodom, but only Lot, and after his offered sacrifice for the angels, they secured him and his family.
Even lots wife was not spared later

Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

It reads to me that lot was also on the brink of being consumed by the city

Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Gen 19:16 **And while he lingered, **the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

He was blessed to get out
Was offering his daughters the right thing to do?
I don’t know, but it was for two angels, who did not let them be taken.
 
I’m not sure really, but I think part of the answer is in
Gen 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes…

Gen19:1And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing [them] rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that [were] at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring [them] out of this place:

So the Angels did not find 50 in Sodom, but only Lot, and after his offered sacrifice for the angels, they secured him and his family.
Even lots wife was not spared later

Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

It reads to me that lot was also on the brink of being consumed by the city

Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Gen 19:16 **And while he lingered, **the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

He was blessed to get out
Was offering his daughters the right thing to do?
I don’t know, but it was for two angels, who did not let them be taken.
 
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