LOTH Question

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During Easter, when a Saint is encountered and it’s a Memorial or Optional Memorial…

The Canticle of Zechariah and of Mary will often be in the Proper of the Saints and be preceded by “Commemoration during Lent” or something to that effect.

Since we are now in Easter

Do we NOT use those canticles
Do we go to the common for the canticle
Do we go to the Easter season for the canticle.

My wife’s LOTH adviser (a friend of hers) recommendes going to the Common. We’ve used the canticle from the Proper in years past. This year, she wants me to use psalms from the Psalter, readings from easter, canticles from the Common and Closing Prayer from the Proper.

Since it is an optional memorial or memorial, we are not using the common EXCEPT for the canticle.

What do you advise. The General Instruction is vague.
 
Are you referring to the antiphons for the canticles? The Canticle of Zachariah is always said at morning prayer and the Canticle of Mary is always said at evening prayer. Let me know.

God Bless,
Matt
 
marty1818 said:
Are you referring to the antiphons for the canticles? The Canticle of Zachariah is always said at morning prayer and the Canticle of Mary is always said at evening prayer. Let me know.

God Bless,
Matt
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Ah, you’ve caught me there. Yes, replace all references to Canticles with Antiphon for the Canticles.
 
If you are celebrating the memorial (optional or obligatory) I would use the antiphon from the common of saints when there is not one in the saint’s proper. When not celebrating a memorial, use the Easter ones. The Lenten ones shouldn’t be used though. Ignore anything having to do with Lent right now. That’s what I would do. Others will probably have suggestions too.

God Bless,
Matt
 
marty1818 said:
If you are celebrating the memorial (optional or obligatory) I would use the antiphon from the common of saints when there is not one in the saint’s proper. When not celebrating a memorial, use the Easter ones. The Lenten ones shouldn’t be used though. Ignore anything having to do with Lent right now. That’s what I would do. Others will probably have suggestions too.

God Bless,
Matt
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I see you’ve been talking to me wife. The question came up because the GILH said the common may be used for a memorial. And since we are not using it, you (and she) suggest using it only for the antiphon’s. I was thinking, IF we are not to use the antiphons from the proper (as they are for Lent) we should use the ones from Easter rather than going to the common ONLY for these antiphons.
 
I can see what you are saying. I don’t know if I can give you anymore advice. I have been told when you pray the LOTH, do your best to follow the rubrics but if you mess up or can’t figure something out, don’t fret too much. Because we are lay people and we are doing this as a devotion, not a obligation. Hopefully someone else will post. Good luck and God bless.

Matt
 
This is just my opinion, but it is what I use and what I also use for my Traditional Monastic Diurnal and it is advice I got from “experts”. 🙂

Memorials are only commemorated, which means you just use the Proper Collect (Prayer) for the Saint in place of or in addition to the collect for the day. You use NOTHING from the common because it is just a commemoration, not a feast. Use all of the antiphons for the feria or paschaltide (easter season) depending on the season unless the Saint has propers of their own.

Hope that helps.

Again, my rule of thumb = memorial means do not use the commons. Anything above memorial gets a common, for the most part.
 
I should have made this a poll.

I agree with Matt. Marty agrees with my bride.

so

2 to 2.

Is there a priest, in a religious orders, who received training under the new (post VII) form of the LOTH who would like to weigh in?

I know it’s not important, but these are the trivia that starts the table conversations in new directions. Sometimes I need something to redirect (read distract) my bride from such things as the phenomenology of Edith Stein or (as last night) if the greek word haggia (wisdom) is derived from the greek (ha–gaea sp??) meaning no–earth or (as Carmelites read it) detatched from earthly things.
 
Evan said:
During Easter, when a Saint is encountered and it’s a Memorial or Optional Memorial…

The Canticle of Zechariah and of Mary will often be in the Proper of the Saints and be preceded by “Commemoration during Lent” or something to that effect.

Since we are now in Easter

Do we NOT use those canticles
Do we go to the common for the canticle
Do we go to the Easter season for the canticle.

My wife’s LOTH adviser (a friend of hers) recommendes going to the Common. We’ve used the canticle from the Proper in years past. This year, she wants me to use psalms from the Psalter, readings from easter, canticles from the Common and Closing Prayer from the Proper.

Since it is an optional memorial or memorial, we are not using the common EXCEPT for the canticle.

What do you advise. The General Instruction is vague.
Click to expand...
I would distinguish between canticle antiphons that are Proper, in the strict meaning of the term, and those which are printed in the Proper (of saints). Most canticle antiphons printed in the Proper of Saints are indeed Proper in the correct meaning- they are unique to the saint. However, in some books, for Lent, the antiphons are given in order to make the commemoration easier. It avoids page flipping. But these are taken from the Common- they are not unique to the saint.

(1)Most of the antiphons to the Canticles thus given are taken form the Common. When this is the case, you can replace it with another canticle antiphon from the same Common. You can also use the canticle antiphon for the weekday in Eastertide.

(2)However if the canticle antiphon is not found in the common, and is therefore Proper, you must you that canticle antiphon if you are observing the memorial of the saint.

An example of case (1) are the antiphons provided for St Isdiore, St. Vincent Ferrer, St. John Baptist de la Salle or St. Stanislaus

An example of (2) is St. Francis of Paolo

This explanation, BTW, was based on the rubric in my edition of the Divine Office which states that the antiphons (from the commons) are printed in place in the Proper for commemorations as an exception. The usual practice is to print them only when they are Proper to a saint. The rest of the explanation is taken from GILH 235, b.
 
This is one reason I’m glad I avoid all optional memorials during Easter.

Nevertheless, if one does decide to celebrate the optional memorial during Easter, then one does NOT say those antiphons marked “For a commemoration”. Rather, use the Benedictus or Magnificat antiphons from the weekday or Common.

I prefer taking everything from the Weekday rather from the Common during Easter to stay as much as possible in sync with the season.
 
Thanks, AJV

I think you answered my question admirably. Explained a lot.

Over and out.
 
Evan,

I’ve been trained with Liturgy of the Hours (as opposed to the Roman Breviary as it was called prior to the council) and now pray it as I promised to do.

Easter is not considered a priviledge season like Lent is. You celebrate pretty much the same way as you do during Ordinary Time. You celebrate the complete office as outlined in the Proper on Feasts and Solemnities. When it comes to memorials, the only difference is if you are obliged to celebrate them or not. Memorials you celebrate as provided in the Proper. All pretty much have an Oration and I think all Memorials of the Universal Calendar have the Antiphons for the Canticles. If you chose to celebrate an Optional Memorial, you do so in the same way as a regular Memorial. When it comes to choosing Antiphons for the Canticles where they are not in the Proper we always used the ones provided in the Psalter or the Proper of Seasons. I don’t use to Commons in these cases. I do always however celebrate the Saints, even the Optional ones, except during Lent. The Ordinary seems to express a preference for using the antiphons of the day instead of going to the Commons.

We also need to keep straight what Proper we are referring to, the Proper of the Season or the Proper of Saints. 🙂
 
jbebeau said:
Evan,
The Ordinary seems to express a preference for using the antiphons of the day instead of going to the Commons.
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I’ve always wondered why it does that. It seems that in all the other places (readings, hymn, etc.) they note it can be taken from either the Common or the Proper of Seasons/Psalter.

And the volume for Ordinary Time says exactly the opposite for the Gospel cnaticle antiphon- it does not note that it can be taken from the weekday.

The UK Divine Office does not have an equivalent rubric (actually layout-wise it’s not very good). It just refers you to the GIRM which does not express a preference.

IIRC, the Latin rubric does express an option- but perhaps someone can verify that?
 
Evan said:
During Easter, when a Saint is encountered and it’s a Memorial or Optional Memorial…

The Canticle of Zechariah and of Mary will often be in the Proper of the Saints and be preceded by “Commemoration during Lent” or something to that effect.

Since we are now in Easter

Do we NOT use those canticles
Do we go to the common for the canticle
Do we go to the Easter season for the canticle.

My wife’s LOTH adviser (a friend of hers) recommendes going to the Common. We’ve used the canticle from the Proper in years past. This year, she wants me to use psalms from the Psalter, readings from easter, canticles from the Common and Closing Prayer from the Proper.

Since it is an optional memorial or memorial, we are not using the common EXCEPT for the canticle.

What do you advise. The General Instruction is vague.
Click to expand...
You could give this a try.liturgyofthehours.org/todays_prayers_christian_prayer.htm
 
AJV said:
I’ve always wondered why it does that. It seems that in all the other places (readings, hymn, etc.) they note it can be taken from either the Common or the Proper of Seasons/Psalter.

And the volume for Ordinary Time says exactly the opposite for the Gospel cnaticle antiphon- it does not note that it can be taken from the weekday.

The UK Divine Office does not have an equivalent rubric (actually layout-wise it’s not very good). It just refers you to the GIRM which does not express a preference.

IIRC, the Latin rubric does express an option- but perhaps someone can verify that?
Click to expand...
Well to answer your questions I dug out my Latin Liturgia Horarum. The rubric is different in the Latin between the 2 volumes.

Volume II: Lent and Easter

Deinde dicitur cum antiphona conveniente sequens canticum evangelicum.

Antiphona ad Benedictus/Magnificat sumitur e Proprio. In celebratione autem Sanctorum, si non adest propria, sumitur e Communi; in memoriis vero, etiam ad libitum, e feria currente.

Volume III: Ordinary Time Weeks 1-18

Deinde dicitur cum antiphona conveniente sequens canticum evangelicum.

In Officio dominicali per annum, antiphona ad Benedictus/Magnificat sumitur e Proprio; in Officio vero feriali, e Psalterio. In celebratione autem Sanctorum, nisi adsit propria, sumitur e Communi.
 
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