LOTH Question

[aj830]

Just a quick question on the Liturgy of the Hours. Is the Evening Prayer prayed the night before the day or the night of the day? Being that you can go to a Vigil Mass for Sunday Obligation due to the fact that the new day begins at night I would think I would actually pray the Office for the evening of the 5th the night of the 4th or do I actually pray it the night of the 5th? Anyone that helps, thanks ahead of time.

 

[YADA]

Evening Prayer is prayed on the day; excpet for Sunday. In Liturgical time there is no Saturday evening On Saturday evening you pray Sunday Evening Prayer I, on Sunday evening you pray Sunday Evening Prayer II.

In Jewish tradition the Evening begins the day. We continue that practice with Sundays [as in you can attend Saturday eveing Mass - Vigils - even Holy Days of Obligation often haveVigil Masses] But the normal Monday through Friday Liturgy of the Hours follows the morning to evening progression.

 

[YADA]

Thinking…reflecting…I guess as Easter people the lengthening of Sundays [celebrations of Easter - Resurrection - Salvaton, etc] fro Saturday through Sunday evening makes abbsolute sense!

We definately have something to celebrate!

 

[Trevelyan]

Evening Prayer is prayed on the day; excpet for Sunday. In Liturgical time there is no Saturday evening On Saturday evening you pray Sunday Evening Prayer I, on Sunday evening you pray Sunday Evening Prayer II.

In Jewish tradition the Evening begins the day. We continue that practice with Sundays [as in you can attend Saturday eveing Mass - Vigils - even Holy Days of Obligation often haveVigil Masses] But the normal Monday through Friday Liturgy of the Hours follows the morning to evening progression.

Yes, through the week you pray Evening Prayer on the evening of the day (if that makes sense), but Sunday has two Evening Prayers, Evening Prayer I on Saturday evening and Evening Prayer II on Sunday evening. (And, consequently, there is no Saturday Evening Prayer) And the same for major feasts that have Evening Prayer I & II in the book, Evening prayer I is prayed the evening before.

 

[tee_eff_em]

In Jewish tradition the Evening begins the day. We continue that practice with Sundays

That is a common perception, but is not quite true. If it were, Sunday would end at sundown, and it plainly does not. The day runs from midnight to midnight unless explicitly otherwise. However, the *celebration *of Sundays, Solemnities, and Feasts of the Lord falling on Sunday begins on the preceding evening.

So, on the solemn celebrations enumerated above, Evening Prayer I is said on the evening preceding the feast, Evening Prayer II is said on the feast itself. Should 2 such celebrations occur back-to-back, ie when there appears a conflict between EP II of the day itself and EP I of the day following, EP of the celebration of higher rank is said. If the celebrations are of equal rank, the EP of the day itself (ie EP II) is preferred.

For instance, this year: Christmas has a higher precedence than Sunday, so on Sunday 24-Dec, EP I of Christmas is said rather than EP II of Sunday. In a week, however, Holy Family is a Feast of the Lord, but by its falling on Sunday a Solemnity equal in rank to the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, therefore on Sunday 31-Dec, EP II of Holy Family will be said.

tee

 

[AJV]

In a week, however, Holy Family is a Feast of the Lord, but by its falling on Sunday a Solemnity equal in rank to the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, therefore on Sunday 31-Dec, EP II of Holy Family will be said.tee

tee_eff_emm: Curious about your interpretation of the rubrics for this? I would have thought that either way (whether you wish to consider it as a Sunday or as a feast) EP I of the Mother of God would take precedence?

 

[tee_eff_em]

tee_eff_emm: Curious about your interpretation of the rubrics for this? I would have thought that either way (whether you wish to consider it as a Sunday or as a feast) EP I of the Mother of God would take precedence?

I realize this is coming up quick for the eastern US, and is already past for many of our old world correspondents – *Mea culpa *having let it languish so long.

Every Ordo I have checked agrees: Evening Prayer on 31-Dec-2006 should be Evening Prayer I for the Solemnity of Mary, the Mother of God.

(Apparently I was led to believe otherwise by directives from my diocese, indicating that all Masses on 31-Dec must celebrate Holy Family and may not anticipate tomorrow’s Solemnity. I, naturally, owe obedience to these directives, but no one else here necessarily does)

Nice catch, AJV,
tee

 

[AlexV]

January 1 outranks Holy Family, no matter WHEN Holy Family falls (Sunday, weekday).

Holy Family is a Feast, no matter what day it falls on.

Tonight’s Vespers…and Mass…must be of January 1 according to both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine usages.

Universal rubrics of the Roman Rite decree all this. Local churches, dioceses, even bishops, cannot change the universal rubrics of the Rite.

 

[tee_eff_em]

January 1 outranks Holy Family, no matter WHEN Holy Family falls (Sunday, weekday).

Holy Family is a Feast, no matter what day it falls on.

Tonight’s Vespers…and Mass…must be of January 1 according to both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine usages.

Universal rubrics of the Roman Rite decree all this. Local churches, dioceses, even bishops, cannot change the universal rubrics of the Rite.

I believe it. And yet, this was published Rules for Christmas Mass attendance

“Therefore, a parish that has a regularly scheduled Mass on Sunday evening, Dec. 31, 2006, is to celebrate the Mass for the feast of the Holy Family of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, not the solemnity of Mary, the Mother of God,”

I suppose it comes from being without an Ordinary, and having such memos prepared by the Diocesan Department for Worship.

tee

 

[AJV]

Tonight’s Vespers…and Mass…must be of January 1 according to both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine usages.

Universal rubrics of the Roman Rite decree all this. Local churches, dioceses, even bishops, cannot change the universal rubrics of the Rite.

Technically there is one situation where this would not apply and Holy Family would be the Evening (but it would still be the universal rubrics).
If the Holy Family is the patron of one’s diocese, or one’s church then as a Solemnity of the Lord, Evening Prayer II of the Holy Family would outrank would outrank Evening Prayer I of the Mother of God (going either by what was posted in the previous thread about precedence within the table, or by the rubric regarding concurrence of solemnities) .

 

[puzzleannie]

can I ask another dumb question, did not have time for evening prayer before 7pm Mass Sun, which is for the Holy Day, and which was followed by a Holy Hour to pray for peace. So I prayed Eve. Pr. 1 for the Holy day at the beginning of the hour, and Office of Reading at the end. What is the proper timing of the hours when there is an evening Mass?

 

[AlexV]

Yes, yes, for those handful of churches where the Holy Family is the titular solemnity, it outranks January 1 in the evening for Vespers.

The memo quoted from a diocesan “Office of Worship” (the majority of whose members, in my experience, know about as much about liturgy as Mickey Mouse) was quite inaccurate.