Lots of anger on this forum

  • Thread starter Thread starter pentecostbaby
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
JReducation said:
Sisters after Vatican II were allowed to get degrees in theology.
Click to expand...
Your insistence on this incorrect information has nothing to do with the topic.

This topic is about uncharitable behavior on this forum. Things like insulting people or hijacking threads.
 
marietta said:
CentralFLJames:

“Everyone has their own perspective - but not everyone has an objective one,” you say. I submit that if everyone has his own perspective, then *no one *has an objective one.

And I am not convinced that there is an “absolute and unassailable truth.”

marietta
Click to expand...
A mathematician and an engineer died and went to Hell.

The Devil took them into a huge hall. On the other side were wonderful dishes, wines, beautiful women. He said to them, “You can have anything here. But whenever you make a move toward something, you can only cover half the distance between yourself and your objective. You can make as many moves as you like, but with each move you can only cover half the remaining distance.” Then he left.

The mathematician sat down and began sobbing. “What’s wrong,” asked the engineer.

The mathematician looked up. “An engineer like you wouldn’t understand this, but we can never actually reach anything.”

The engineer thought about it for a minute. “That’s okay,” he said. “We can get awfully close.”

None of us is truly objective. But using the proper techniques, we can get awfully close.😉
 
rpp said:
Your insistence on this incorrect information has nothing to do with the topic.

This topic is about uncharitable behavior on this forum. Things like insulting people or hijacking threads.
Click to expand...
I was not insisting on this. I simply answered a poster as to why Sister said something in school. You added that Teresa of Avila had studied theology and I responded with a historical fact.

It was not I who go off track. You answered to a segment of my post that had to do with this thread.

JR 🙂
 
marietta said:
CentralFLJames:

“Everyone has their own perspective - but not everyone has an objective one,” you say. I submit that if everyone has his own perspective, then *no one *has an objective one.

marietta
Click to expand...
A logical fallacy. If everyone has the same perspective then its possible that it is objective.

What non-Catholics as well as poorly catechisized Catholics just “don’t get” is that we hold that The Catholic Church is the mystical Body of Christ. This was not an invention of human thought - it came from Christ’s teachings and was guaranteed to us. While The Church is made up of a plurality of very human and fallable individuals we collectively as “The Church” become greater than each individual member. This is more than just a synergy or collective reasoning power. We Catholics actually are members of a divine and infallible entity that transcends human limitations. Our truth does not extend from any one human being’s perspective but rather our Truth is a Truth that extends from a single universal Divine truth.

This is the “rock” you keep bumping up against. God just does not change Truth just to suit the perspective of humans and we know that God does not reveal a truth outside of His Church since He would never divide truth against itself.

James
 
vern_humphrey said:
None of us is truly objective. But using the proper techniques, we can get awfully close.😉
Click to expand...
This is why God gave us arms - to span the distance that we can’t walk. We just need to get within arm’s reach. But when the object is too hard to grasp we clasp our hands together and pray God to lend a helping hand. 😉

James
p.s. Irrespective of the math, pragmatically speaking after 5 half lifes the leaky water bucket can be declared empty too. 😉
 
marietta said:
And I am not convinced that there is an “absolute and unassailable truth.”

marietta
Click to expand...
The acceptance of a supreme being who is all knowing, all powerful, perfectly rational is the first assent that man makes to the absolute.

Once this assent is made, then one has already comitted himself to belief in the absolute and unsailable truth, for God is absolute and unsailable.

The only way to believe that there is not absolute and unsailable truth would be to deny the very existence of God.

But if we did that, then mathematics would confront us with absolute and unsailable truths such as the Descartes plane, Euclid’s postulates which have no proof, Pythagoras’ theorem, which can only be proven by an absolute axion that is unprovable.

If we deny that mathematics has absolute and unsailable truths, then we deny quantitative thinking. To deny quantitative thinking, would annul rational thought.

Rational thought is the joint venture of the quantitative and the qualitative.

If we deny the existence of rational thought, then we have no way of proving our own existence.

Thus we achieve perfect nihilism and we are back in the world of absolutes, for nihilism is absolute.

JR 🙂
 
CentralFLJames:

You say you " . . . know that God does not reveal a truth outside of His Church . . ." You “know” that because you’ve been told that and so you believe it.

Those of us who are chopped liver out here do not agree. This is not to say any of us is banging against any wall over it. I just find the exclusivity of it narrow and limiting.

It’s like the only color any of us gets to see or enjoy is ochre. Anyone who suggests otherwise shall suffer the flames of hell.

Really.

marietta
 
marietta said:
CentralFLJames:

“Everyone has their own perspective - but not everyone has an objective one,” you say. I submit that if everyone has his own perspective, then *no one *has an objective one.
Click to expand...
While I tend to agree with what James had to say…in fact 100% in agreement I am… I can only submit further that in terms of “faith, beliefs, and morality”…objective perspectives are not necessary…in fact they are “undesirable”. To be “objective” is to “compromise”…and in this venue…there is not rhyme or reason to “compromise” as to do so is to “compromise” entirely. Compromising via “objectivity” is merely a politically correct way of watering down a subject or issue to make others feel safe and comfortable…regardless of the truths of the issue. Another way of putting it would be “Bad Karma”. 😃
And I am not convinced that there is an “absolute and unassailable truth.”
Click to expand...
Such is your right…however, at some point you will arrive at the conclusion that there is in fact “absolute and unassailable truth(s)”…or at least we hope so.
 
JReducation:

I do not deny the existence of God. I deny the existence of a small, colorless, humorless and unimaginative God.

marietta
 
JReducation said:
The acceptance of a supreme being who is all knowing, all powerful, perfectly rational is the first assent that man makes to the absolute.

Once this assent is made, then one has already comitted himself to belief in the absolute and unsailable truth, for God is absolute and unsailable.

The only way to believe that there is not absolute and unsailable truth would be to deny the very existence of God.

But if we did that, then mathematics would confront us with absolute and unsailable truths such as the Descartes plane, Euclid’s postulates which have no proof, Pythagoras’ theorem, which can only be proven by an absolute axion that is unprovable.

If we deny that mathematics has absolute and unsailable truths, then we deny quantitative thinking. To deny quantitative thinking, would annul rational thought.

Rational thought is the joint venture of the quantitative and the qualitative.

If we deny the existence of rational thought, then we have no way of proving our own existence.

Thus we achieve perfect nihilism and we are back in the world of absolutes, for nihilism is absolute.

JR 🙂
Click to expand...
Taking the Dogma on a walk around the mobius strip again JR? 😃 Love it.

Bravo - but did you have to drop the nuclear logic so early in the debate? 😉

Here is another way of saying it:
“Everything I say is a lie - so just believe it’s opposite if you want the truth; but I could be lieing”.

With no absolute truth we might as well all go crazy and not say a single word to anyone or try to convince anyone of anything or discuss any topic at all. Existence would be utterly irrational and pointless.

Integrating all this with the OP then it just goes to prove that anger is a measure of the tension that exists at the frontier of truth and absurdity.

Now for some strange reason I find myself wondering if magnetic monopoles can really exist in nature? 🤷

James
 
RobHom:

“‘Objective perspectives are not necessary…in fact they are "undesirable’” is tantamount to “Check your brain as you come through the door - no individual or independent thought required or permitted. Those who choose to examine the differences in peoples, religions and designs for living can be assured that the cost will be dear.”

This is called intolerance. Decidedly unChristian.

marietta
 
CentralFLJames:

Regarding your magnetic monopoles: None has been unequivocally observed.

At least, that’s one version of the truth.

marietta
 
marietta said:
RobHom:

“‘Objective perspectives are not necessary…in fact they are "undesirable’” is tantamount to “Check your brain as you come through the door - no individual or independent thought required or permitted. Those who choose to examine the differences in peoples, religions and designs for living can be assured that the cost will be dear.”

This is called intolerance. Decidedly unChristian.

marietta
Click to expand...
Not so. Where “faith, beliefs, and morality” are concerned… I have no need to compromise or be politically correct or expedient for the convenience or pleasure or comfort of another. My faith, my beliefs, my morality…is mine, and thus no compromise is necessary. It has nothing to do with “checking one’s brain at the door”…This is not in anyway my saying that I am incapable of critical thought…or that I am incapable of “compromise” on issues of other scope… There are simply some areas that are not negotiable, and immune or out of bounds to “compromise”.

It is NEITHER intolerant or un-Christian. Its called “steadfastness” at all times and in all situations. 😃
 
marietta said:
CentralFLJames:

You say you " . . . know that God does not reveal a truth outside of His Church . . ." You “know” that because you’ve been told that and so you believe it.

Those of us who are chopped liver out here do not agree. This is not to say any of us is banging against any wall over it. I just find the exclusivity of it narrow and limiting.

It’s like the only color any of us gets to see or enjoy is ochre. Anyone who suggests otherwise shall suffer the flames of hell.

Really.

marietta
Click to expand...
We have been told it from a reliable source - Jesus. Everything is riding on this one faith and hope.

Don’t bang on the wall - knock at the door if you want to come in and look around. By being here you obviously are curious as to what is inside. For the record we do not judge anyone - only God is entitled to judge. But we are required to correct if possible. Have you considered that you are judging yourself here? Also consider that we are not a “club” that is trying to be all things to all people. We are a Church, a Church that God wants to be one thing to all people. If you do not want to be a member of The Church you are free to pass it by and keep walking - no one is going to force you against your will or do the heavy sales pitch on you. We leave membership up to God and the individual’s own conscience with respect to accepting His invitation.

I get the impression that you are a creative and perhaps artistic person who enjoys the freedoms of individual expressive power. Consider that God gave you all that for a purpose - to serve Him while giving you the pleasure of being “who you are” while you do so. Note, that while there is much colorful and many splendored diversity in nature there is only one unifying creative principal or order to it all. This diversity pattern is not lost in The Church since we are all many different members but are all ordered to one unifying and collective principal conduct and belief. Each person contributes and adds unique talents and abilities to the mystical Body of Christ. Within the Church are many diverse opportunities to contribute in personal ways. We just all come together in common forms of community worship. Even the choir has many different voices to lend to the harmony. But the operative word here is harmony - but that does not preclude the soloist from contributing her breathtaking part either.

And if it is color you want I invite you to consider the color white in the analogy since within that one universal color can be seen a spectrum of all colors working together to make “white” (not ochre).

As for suffering the flames of hell that is again a matter that is up to God. We can only tell you what we have been told to avoid and what to embrace.

to keep it on topic I have to get “anger” into this. So let me say - get angry at God if you must - I guarantee if you do it will get His attention and perhaps a new perspective when He thumps you with what you will later come to see as “obvious”.

James
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top