Lots of folks having "first visions"....

[SirThomasMore]

Interestingly enough, Joe Smith was not the only person claiming to have visits from God or Jesus at the same time Joe did.

Solomon Cjamberlain, who visited the Smith Family, had a vision where “the Lord” told him all the Churches were wrong.

in 1816, A Vermont minister named Elias Smith published an account where Jesus appeared in a light from from heaven one day while Elias was in the woods.

In 1823, Asa Wild had an article printed in the Palmyra Newspaper where He was visited by The Great Jehova and told all the denominations were wrong. His account sounds a lot like one of Joe’s various versions.

in 1824, Alexander Campbell spoke out against three people who claimed to have announced having visions on Jesus in the woods.

in 1826, John Thopson of Palmyra saw Jesus come from the sky telling him to go announce that Jesus had come again.

in 1830, Stephen Bradley claimed that he saw the Lord in 1829 when he was 14 (same age as Joe?)

Let’s see, he took the temple ceremony from the Masons, the Book of Mormon from Spaulding, the Bible, and Rigdon, and it seems he took his “vision” from lots of folks.

Remember, the account of the first vision was never published until 1832, long after all these other visions were made public.

Another strange coincidence in the life of Joe?

Information obtained from “One Nation Under Gods” by Richard Abanes

 

[SirThomasMore]

one wonders if Joseph ever did anything that he did not take from someone else?

 

[why_me]

one wonders if Joseph ever did anything that he did not take from someone else?

I don’t know but I do know that many people claim to see Mary too. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean much unless the catholic church says so.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I don’t know but I do know that many people claim to see Mary too. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean much unless the catholic church says so.

Red Herring Alert!

And not even point.

And nothing to do with the idea that Joseph stole his vision from various others.

But, it is what I have come to expect

 

[RebeccaJ]

one wonders if Joseph ever did anything that he did not take from someone else?

The Restoration movement, of which Mormonism is a part, arose from the Second Great Awakening. It was a time of religious fervor in New England, where adolescent claims of visions and exhortations that Christ’s return was eminent, were common.

 

[choy]

one wonders if Joseph ever did anything that he did not take from someone else?

good point
i do know that Felix Manalo, founder of Iglesia Ni Cristo in the Philippines, took from Joseph Smith, including being the anointed one who is to re-stablish the apostatize Church of Christ

 

[why_me]

Red Herring Alert!

And not even point.

And nothing to do with the idea that Joseph stole his vision from various others.

But, it is what I have come to expect

I don’t think so. You made a claim that many people are having first visions. I made a claim that many people have Mary visitations. What is the difference? Copycats or similiar experiences are often reported. But…at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean much.

And what is your point in this thread? I have no idea what your point is.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I don’t think so. You made a claim that many people are having first visions. I made a claim that many people have Mary visitations. What is the difference? Copycats or similiar experiences are often reported. But…at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean much.

And what is your point in this thread? I have no idea what your point is.

RED HERRING ALERT!!!

Mary visitations have nothing to do with all the alleged visions of God prior to Joseph’s 9 versions of a firsr vision

 

[lax16]

I don’t know but I do know that many people claim to see Mary too. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean much unless the catholic church says so.

whyme - Has Mary ever told anyone that the Church Her Son started was an abomination?

Have her visions brought people closer to the Church Her Son started or have they caused people to break away and start their own church?

Have her messages ever promoted hate and division or love and peace?

Did Mary lead a scandalous life or was she a Christian example of holiness?

If anyone claims to have a vision of Mary or anyone else and they are told by the vision to leave the Church that Christ started because it is evil, the vision cannot come from God.

This is not about people having apparitions, it’s about the MESSAGE they are receiving from the vision.

 

[LongJourney]

Not only that, but any “miracles” claimed by Catholics must pass through rigorous review, before they are accepted as true miracles. Mormon “miracles” are immediately accepted at face value.

 

[lax16]

Not only that, but any “miracles” claimed by Catholics must pass through rigorous review, before they are accepted as true miracles. Mormon “miracles” are immediately accepted at face value.

Yes, the Catholic Church is understandably very slow in this process.

I have often wondered about Mormon miracles. Have you read about any?

 

[LongJourney]

None that were certified using the same procedure used by the Catholic church. None.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Yes, the Catholic Church is understandably very slow in this process.

I have often wondered about Mormon miracles. Have you read about any?

I have heard that garments stopped bullets. I have heard of people helped by the Three Nephites. I have heard of the ice across the Mississippi that allowed them to flee Nauvoo was a miracle…and the seagulls eating the crickets in SLC…

 

[lax16]

I have heard that garments stopped bullets. I have heard of people helped by the Three Nephites. I have heard of the ice across the Mississippi that allowed them to flee Nauvoo was a miracle…and the seagulls eating the crickets in SLC…

Those sound like wonderful events in the lives of the LDS. Catholics are not the only ones who are recipients of God’s goodness, that’s for sure!

What is the method used to determine their authenticity?

I do think the seagulls eating the crickets has been explained as a natural occurrence that happens every seven years or something like that.

 

[aquabatix]

I guess what makes JS’s vision more credible then the others is that he had a book to pass out later that verified his story in the eyes of others. Not the gold plates mind you, but a book that sounded enough like the bible that locals could accept as “scripture”. If the others made their own books, then maybe they could have had their own religion too!

 

[why_me]

RED HERRING ALERT!!!

Mary visitations have nothing to do with all the alleged visions of God prior to Joseph’s 9 versions of a firsr vision

Well, it goes like this. The fatima children get their idea from Bernedette and Bernedette gets the idea from someone else who claimed a mary visitation. See my point?

Here is the fact: Joseph had his visitation has a teenager. That would place him very young to be planning world domination by inventing a new faith. Plus, if your Stanford study is correct, Sidney would have had to meet JS as a teenager since his first vision led to his vision of moroni and eventually the book of mormon.

I just see red herrings in your post. Sorry.

 

[LongJourney]

And if JS confabulated the vision AFTER the fact? Just maybe, can you see that possibility??

 

[choy]

I guess what makes JS’s vision more credible then the others is that he had a book to pass out later that verified his story in the eyes of others. Not the gold plates mind you, but a book that sounded enough like the bible that locals could accept as “scripture”. If the others made their own books, then maybe they could have had their own religion too!

in the case of Felix Manalo of Iglesia ni Cristo, he claimed to be an incarnated angel, a messenger, and used some passages in the Bible and claimed it to be a prohpecy about him

he also used Revelations and interpreted it in a way to convince people that he is indeed a messenger from God and that his mission is truly divine in nature. everytime the East is mentioned, he uses it to justify himself because he is re-establishing the Church in the Philippines, which is geographically in the East.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Well, it goes like this. The fatima children get their idea from Bernedette and Bernedette gets the idea from someone else who claimed a mary visitation. See my point?

RED HERRING ALERT!!!

Geez…sometimes, I am not sure you really understand what you post. Bernadette occurred in Lourdes, Fatmia in Portugal. Different countries. Different years. And you will have to show how the little kids in Fatima would have known all that they were shown. The quotes I posted were in the same town with months of Jose’s alleged 9 versions of his vision.

RED HERRING ALERT!!!

 

[aquabatix]

That’s very interesting too. I think that it falls short though in that he doesn’t have “another testament” that he could have 19 year old boys or 21 year old girls pass out as they go door to door. Perhaps he should have written one too.