Loud children at Mass. thoughts?

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Having to do activities on other people’s terms is different to being active on your terms. I remember as a kid finding all the standing up and sitting down a right nuisance.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
Having to do activities on other people’s terms is different to being active on your terms. I remember as a kid finding all the standing up and sitting down a right nuisance.
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Right. Even sitting, standing, and kneeling in the same spot is really hard for a lot of kids.
 
I think we just have to disagree. I have seen kids hit and kick and their parents ignore it. That’s what I meant by behavior that wouldn’t fly at a park.

No matter your child or their needs you cannot allow them to hit others. You have to deal with that and take them out. Even if you are not discreet.

If someone tells me not to bring my kids to Mass or that my shushing them distracted them…I would probably tell them to get over it. We are a community. That means occasionally other people are going to bother you or distract you. We aren’t robots, none of us are perfect all the time.

You seem to think I expect perfect behavior from children. I don’t. But I expect adults to be adults. That means putting up with kids and understanding putting up with other people’s kids can be challenging.
 
KathleenT said:
No matter your child or their needs you cannot allow them to hit others. You have to deal with that and take them out. Even if you are not discreet.
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Is there a rule book for dealing with kids in church that somebody forgot to give me?

These are judgment call type issues.

I personally wouldn’t take a kid out for moderate hitting or kicking, mostly because I would be afraid of seeming to reward the kid for terrible behavior with a change of scenery. Kick mom or hit sis–get free trip out of church!

This stuff is very tricky. Parents of difficult children need to be very conscious of accidentally reinforcing bad behavior. Also, there’s the possibility that the particular child does not have a lot of control over their movements because of special needs issues.

On a somewhat different topic, I was talking to an Orthodox convert at a potluck last night on the subject of kids in church, and she says that in Orthodox churches, it’s routine for Syrian Orthodox parents to hand their child over to the child’s godparent when the child is fussy or acting (as my informant put it) “weird”.
 
On reflection, church is very different from the playground from a strategic/motivational point of view.

Mom and/or dad are the ones who want to go to church, whereas the kid is the one who wants to be at the playground. Getting to go to and be at the playground is a privilege for the kid.

Hence, mom and dad have a much more behavioral leverage at the playground than at church. They can threaten to go home NOW if the kid is bad at the playground and it’s no biggie for the parents, whereas the parents want to stay in church.

Also, you can have the conversation with the kid as loudly as you like at the playground and not be disruptive.
 
I have no problem with children at Mass. I find it charming that they are so careful (well-trained!) stepping over the backs of my lower legs when they enter or leave the pew.
That’s in the EF, of course.
 
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When attending Mass at one of our two connected/about-to-be-merged parishes, I try to avoid a certain area of the church as that seems to be where a lot of families with infants/toddlers seem to locate. However, one such family tends to locate in the exact pew I’m in. Yet it’s not too great a distraction as the child seems rather content. Their secret? Pepperidge Farm Goldfish Crackers!
 
I’m a codger–a baby boomer. Somehow I wouldn’t be surprised if it were boomers who get the most indignant about crying babies at Mass.
I just hope it’s not those same boomers who yak, yak, yak right before and right after Mass. Who have to keep moving around shaking hands and waving, halfway into the Lamb of God. Hopefully it’s not them.
 
Your parenting style means you have more leverage at the park.

That’s not the case for every parenting style. Some styles the parents will have more leverage in Church because they emphasis to their children Church is very important so rewards and punishments will be much more than they would in other places.

Let me be clear, I don’t care what parenting style you use. That’s your business.
 
KathleenT said:
That’s not the case for every parenting style. Some styles the parents will have more leverage in Church because they emphasis to their children Church is very important so rewards and punishments will be much more than they would in other places.
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I’m just not seeing how this is supposed to work.

Kid misbehaves at the park and gets airlifted home before he wanted to go–kid feels bad about being bad. Kid learns to be good at the park.

Kid misbehaves at church (where he’s bored stiff) and gets airlifted out to a new and more interesting setting–kid feels good about being bad. Kid learns to be bad at church.

It’s also not unknown for kids (and even adults!) to prefer punishment to boredom.


" Even though all participants had previously stated that they would pay money to avoid being shocked with electricity, 67% of men and 25% of women chose to inflict it on themselves rather than just sit there quietly and think, the team reports online today in Science ."
 
Surely with older kids they need a consequence for misbehaving in church like no screen time for the rest of the day.
 
KathleenT said:
That’s not the case for every parenting style. Some styles the parents will have more leverage in Church because they emphasis to their children Church is very important so rewards and punishments will be much more than they would in other places.
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This seems to imply that people who don’t parent the way you would don’t think “Church is very important”.

It’s not really a “parenting style” to acknowledge that kids want to be at the playground but not at church. It’s just a generality about kids. Many kids enjoy being taken out of the church, because they don’t want to be there in the first place.

Just because a parent makes them stay and deals with them in the pew (which could mean ignoring, unless they’re really obnoxious) doesn’t mean that Mass isn’t important to that parent. In fact, it’s very uncomfortable for the parents of kids who aren’t little angels to be stared at and glared at, and even get rude comments. Sticking it out shows the opposite- Mass is important, and you’re a part of it, and this is how you’re going to learn to behave here. The kids could be getting a big punishment later too, for all anyone knows.
 
That’s not what I said. Did you catch my point about rewards and punishments being greater?

I was not talking about what is important in the parent’s perception but the child’s.

All parents have tolerances for misbehavior and all children learn those tolerances. Every kid knows what really upsets their parents. You can use those tolerances to your advantage.

The commentor I was replying to said she didn’t know how it would work. The way it works is different parenting styles.

I obviously have a much more authoritative parenting style than the commentor I was replying to. The advantage to my style is my kids have clear expectations of behavior, they know misbehaving in front of others isn’t going to cause me to ignore their behavior, the punishments are faster and we can get back to having a good day instead of me having to ruin their day long after they stepped out of line. We have more fun, and there is less frustration. The downside is I am constantly watching/interacting with my child during Mass because one is still so young. I give lots of positive reinforcement, I emphasize my excitement for different parts of the Mass.

This works for our family. It may not work for others. But I am not the mom to others, that’s not my circus.

I only commented on this thread because I tend to get some very kind feedback about my children even when they have rough days. I sincerely believe I get that feedback due to the fact my body language makes it obvious I am trying to teach my children. I thought my comment would be helpful to some parents who might be worried about trying to enforce rules in the pews.

So I am going to bow out of this discussion since it has led to people trying to point out to me obvious facts about playgrounds which is a bit insulting.

Have a wonderful day and a very Merry Christmas.
 
All I would say is be thankful you can hear, as there are those out there who would gladly love to hear and hear the loud children at mass as opposed to being deaf.

I would also say, be thankful that these children are at mass… some parents never even bother to bring their children to mass. How will they pass their faith on to them if they do not share the liturgy. The kids may not fully understand it at a young age, but they will in time.
 
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That’s no secret. I have to have my kids sit with other families if my husband needs me to sing with the choir. They almost never act up with strangers. I guess that’s some sort of stranger anxiety? Now, it’s different if the other family has young kids.
 
My daughter knows all the songs and responses, including the liturgical dance she choreographed for them. My son isn’t so creative yet. He usually just tries to find something to drum on when the music starts. I’m glad they like music, but dang! The singing is supposed to be the easy part!
 
My son was good in Mass last week. He slept through it. He woke up as I was putting on his coat, looked around in confusion, and asked, “Where God?”
 
It is for everyone. No argument there.
Just a bit annoyed when we can’t hear any of the readings or homily.
 
Frankly, I think this is very sad.

“Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them.”
 
Here! Here! I prayed vespers last night while pacing back and forth in the living room with my 3 year old perched on my shoulders (occasionally chiming in with a “rejoice!”). I wasn’t going to get to pray Vespers period otherwise. What luxoury some people enjoy!

(And this is the pro-life/pro-Family/anti-contraception Church??? Keep the kids at home until they can remain quiet? I’m utterly disgusted).
 
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