Love before the fall?

[AlanFromWichita]

Thank you for checking out my thread. :tiphat:

Before Adam and Eve ate the apple, they didn’t know sin, and did not have any kind of sin including original sin. If I’m wrong on that, I would like to be corrected.

So I ask: Since Adam and Eve didn’t sin before the ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then they could not have been forgiven, could they have?

If they weren’t ever forgiven, and the one with the most sins forgiven loves the most, then can we ask, could they have experienced human love the way we know it now. not having ever experienced reconciliation?

I’ve wondered why God decided it was a Good Thing to “punish” Adam and Eve, because I don’t understand what God gets out of seeing them and their descendants suffer. On the other hand, if they hadn’t been thrown out of the garden, would they even have had any descendants?

So what if God was not trying to punish them, but to give them what they hoped to get when they ate of the apple. God knew they wouldn’t understand what it’s like to be God and have that knowledge, and once they got that knowledge of good and evil, God realized that such knowledge, in and of itself, was damaging to the human soul. Knowledge puffs up, while love builds up. Where does the unitive feeling come from in our human hearts when we experience love? Is it from the words we hear, or the experiences we share through empathy while we’re swapping stories.

So when they ate the apple and their eyes were open, then God had to open up the “real” world as it appears to anyone with the knowledge of good and evil. Maybe God didn’t have to kick them out of the garden. As soon as they took the bite of the apple they started judging everything and themselves, questioning their own value, and basically their rose-colored glasses came off and they saw the world as it really was.

So this is all just imagining things, but I hoped it might be an interesting discussion.

So, did Adam and Eve know love before the fall?

Once they knew of sin, is that why God had to send the second Adam, to show them the other part of being God – the human part? Adam and Eve had all the fun and no responsibility, but then once they knew judgment they had to learn condemnation, sin, and fogiveness so they could experience love which would make life meaningful for human creates in His image.

Jesus did miracles partly to do good, but mostly to show that He had authority on the earth, as I understand it. He came not to show us what it’s like to be God… we’re all spawned by original sin to be seekers of love which covers a multitude of sins.

It’s like if you learn to be a surgeon, then you know how to manipulate life and death, to some extent. You are held responsible for that knowledge, and I don’t think the life of a surgeon is necessarily a picnic because they have the knowledge. In fact, they can be sued at any time for malpractice, no matter how competent and loving they are.

So we are responsible for putting our knowledge to use in a way that shares human love with each other. We do that right here on this forum. So IMO we are working here to do our part in converting separation into reunion, sin to forgiveness, dark to light, etc. We can all do our part to make all of our little pieces of love into a quilt that warms all of humankind. God gave us little samples, in His image, of His loving heart built into our own hearts, so that we may experience the full range of emotions we ever need to experience in our life.

Adam and Eve didn’t know flaws, so nor did they fully understand perfection. They thought knowledge would get them there, but turns out knowledge is the first step toward becoming godlike, and if it isn’t handled perfectly, humans tend to use it to take a trip to anxiety-land before they ever feel true peace.

Alan

 

[Equites_Christi]

and the one with the most sins forgiven loves the most

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Luke 7:40-50:

Jesus said to him in reply, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” “Tell me, teacher,” he said. “Two people were in debt to a certain creditor; one owed five hundred days’ wages 12 and the other owed fifty. Since they were unable to repay the debt, he forgave it for both. Which of them will love him more?” Simon said in reply, “The one, I suppose, whose larger debt was forgiven.” He said to him, “You have judged rightly.”

Then he turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? When I entered your house, you did not give me water for my feet, but she has bathed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but she has not ceased kissing my feet since the time I entered. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she anointed my feet with ointment.

**So I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love. But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little." **He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” The others at table said to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” But he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Hope that helps.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

bump.

I’ll try one more time to make this interest and engaging. http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/1.gif

The more I think about the Garden of Eden, I don’t think I’d like to live there. I’d surely love to visit, and I have little doubt I’d find peace and rest. :harp:

But then, I’m ready to go back to my mortal home, to the only place I know. Where I am needed by somebody who is needy, since there are no needy in the garden. Where I can experience consoling and being consoled, also not to be found in garden. Where I can learn to forgive, impossible if there were no sins. :hug3:

In my human point of view, I’m glad Adam and Eve chose knowledge over eternal life in the garden where sin was not known. How insanely boring might eternal life be for a human being in a place where they don’t need to do anything, and nothing interesting ever happens. Never experiencing what it’s like to be outside our comfort zone, so we don’t even realize whether we appreciate that we are in an eternal comfort zone. :heaven:

It’s like in the Matrix, will Neo choose the red pill or the blue pill? One pill puts him back into his comfortable and familiar, but meaningless pseudo-life that is the Matrix. The other one exposes him to the realities of life, harsh as they may be, and gives him plenty of challenges and adventure. :knight2:

I’m glad Neo chose reality over the Matrix, or the movie would have been pretty boring.

I’m glad our first parents chose knowledge over eternal life, because if he gone the other way, there would be no reason for me to even have been born.

Alan

 

[francisca]

I think what Jesus said “the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little” only apply to our fallen state. Before the fall, Adam and Eve walk and talk with God face to face. Adam and Eve know the Perfect Love personally.

St Paul wrote about heaven in his epistle to the corinthians :

1Corinthians 2:9
but just as it is written, “THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD,
AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”

Yet, you may be right that Adam and Eve before the fall may have had known heaven in a different way compared to what we will because of Jesus salvation.