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obvious_ron
Guest
For those who are in a pre-marital committed relationship, how does your faith play out? Do you love God more? Do you act as if that were true? If so, please reply with how you live that scenario.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
We are commanded to love God more than any other person.
This applies to friendships, marriages, children, work, anyone.
You live it by doing it. Put God first.
This applies to friendships, marriages, children, work, anyone.
You live it by doing it. Put God first.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
I hate the term “more”
I love God differently than my husband and children.
In reality, this means that I pray to God, I attend Mass, I teach my children about God and my husband and I discuss God. We pray in our house and we have sacramentals.
I do not pray to my husband.
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obvious_ron
Guest
If not “more” then what about “first”? Is your relationship with God your first priority over anything else in your life? How do you live that out?
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Prayer isn’t a one-time action, it’s a continuous conversation with God.
It is not difficult to put God first when you understand the proper idea behind prayer. You can’t have that kind of constant communication with another person. It’s not humanly possible.
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I’m always surprised when people ask this question. It seems like the answer is pretty obvious. Obviously you must do your duty as a Catholic and fulfill your obligations to the Lord. Mass, daily prayer, rosary etc. But other than that the way we love God in this life is to put our spouse/neighbour before ourselves. If you’re married, then you mainly love God through fulfilling your marriage vows and being the best husband you can be. This involves having a relationship with Christ in your everyday life and being able to be humble and loving toward your wife.
God is not going to ask married couples at the end of their lives why they weren’t out on the missions converting people and building schools. He’s likely going to ask us if we lived our marriage vows faithfully and loved our spouse and kids and aided in their path to heaven.
God is not going to ask married couples at the end of their lives why they weren’t out on the missions converting people and building schools. He’s likely going to ask us if we lived our marriage vows faithfully and loved our spouse and kids and aided in their path to heaven.
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Mboo
Guest
We must love God more than our children, our spouse, our parents. This means that if we face a situation where we have the choice between committing a mortal sin or letting our loved ones suffer and die, we must let our loved ones suffer and die.
For example, if a tormentor asks you to apostatize publicly or it exterminates all your family in great suffering, you must choose that it destroys your family.
If our family, our spouse is indeed our happiness, it will be very difficult or impossible to choose God in such a situation. We will look for any kind of alibi to justify our sin. It will be said, “my first duty is to protect my family”, “if one exterminates my family it is irreparable, yet I could always repair my apostasy by a good confession later”, etc. etc.
Hence the advice of Jesus “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he can not be My disciple”
For example, if a tormentor asks you to apostatize publicly or it exterminates all your family in great suffering, you must choose that it destroys your family.
If our family, our spouse is indeed our happiness, it will be very difficult or impossible to choose God in such a situation. We will look for any kind of alibi to justify our sin. It will be said, “my first duty is to protect my family”, “if one exterminates my family it is irreparable, yet I could always repair my apostasy by a good confession later”, etc. etc.
Hence the advice of Jesus “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he can not be My disciple”
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TechieGuy
Guest
In practice, it is not something that has ever come up…
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Mboo
Guest
@TechieGuy
Have you read the story of the persecutions of the first Christians? obviously no, because you would not say that in “practice” it is not possible. For your guidance, they are parents like the mother of the martyrs of Israel who encouraged their children to die as martyrs.
Otherwise there is also acceptance of the trials coming from God! God can tear you all your family away tragically, and if your family was the essence of your happiness, the risk of committing mortal sin against Hope (despair) or against charity (hatred of God or hatred of the murderer of your family) will be very high. Hence the prudence of having an inner detachment from our loved ones and to love them only in God.
Have you read the story of the persecutions of the first Christians? obviously no, because you would not say that in “practice” it is not possible. For your guidance, they are parents like the mother of the martyrs of Israel who encouraged their children to die as martyrs.
Otherwise there is also acceptance of the trials coming from God! God can tear you all your family away tragically, and if your family was the essence of your happiness, the risk of committing mortal sin against Hope (despair) or against charity (hatred of God or hatred of the murderer of your family) will be very high. Hence the prudence of having an inner detachment from our loved ones and to love them only in God.
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Mboo
Guest
@AdamPeter
you say:
“God is not going to ask married couples at the end of their lives why they weren’t out on the missions converting people and building schools. He’s likely going to ask us if we lived our marriage vows faithfully and loved our spouse and kids and aided in their path to heaven”
It may be true, but the rich of the parable is in Hell because he does not love Lazarus. Maybe he loved his family, but it was obviously not enough to open the doors of Heaven … and elsewhere Jesus said "if your justice does not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of heaven "the scribes’ justice consisting of loved only their loved one.
And also the love we have for our loved ones is a natural love, so it has no supernatural merit. In order for love for our children, and our loved ones to be meritorious, we must love them differently, that is, to love them in God and for God’s sake. but as the engine of natural love is already enough to do them good, it is rare that we love them with a love of charity proper.
you say:
“God is not going to ask married couples at the end of their lives why they weren’t out on the missions converting people and building schools. He’s likely going to ask us if we lived our marriage vows faithfully and loved our spouse and kids and aided in their path to heaven”
It may be true, but the rich of the parable is in Hell because he does not love Lazarus. Maybe he loved his family, but it was obviously not enough to open the doors of Heaven … and elsewhere Jesus said "if your justice does not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of heaven "the scribes’ justice consisting of loved only their loved one.
And also the love we have for our loved ones is a natural love, so it has no supernatural merit. In order for love for our children, and our loved ones to be meritorious, we must love them differently, that is, to love them in God and for God’s sake. but as the engine of natural love is already enough to do them good, it is rare that we love them with a love of charity proper.
I think you misunderstand the meaning of vocation if you think like this. The examples you give are extreme and, in fact, if you were under duress to reject the faith or watch your loved ones be murdered the Church teaches that you could “reject the faith” with no sin as you would not really be rejecting the faith. If it was your own life on the line then it’s your call.
Nobody is denying that Charity must extend beyond the home…but it is not the job of the married man to abandon his family and go to do charity work in a far away country. That would be a sin on his part as his first responsibility is to his family. To their safety, both physical and spiritual. The parents that devote themselves to their family and raising their children in the faith do more for the Church than parents whose priorities are screwed up.
Nobody is denying that Charity must extend beyond the home…but it is not the job of the married man to abandon his family and go to do charity work in a far away country. That would be a sin on his part as his first responsibility is to his family. To their safety, both physical and spiritual. The parents that devote themselves to their family and raising their children in the faith do more for the Church than parents whose priorities are screwed up.
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Mboo
Guest
Thank you for your reply.
I will express myself differently, because perhaps the examples I chose do not sufficiently highlight my opinion.
The love we have for our loved ones is ordinarily a natural love, and natural love easily falls into the mortal sin of despair or hate in the event of loss. If someone exterminates your family, you should practice a heroic act of charity so as not to hate him, so as not to commit a mortal sin. And if you die from a stroke with this hate it is your salvation that will be compromised, in my opinion this scenario is not purely fictional either. But to have no hatred for the murderer of his family is not ordinarily possible if one does not exercise to surpass the natural love one has for them to love them with a supernatural love.
And the fact that a person can exterminate your family is not an unlikely extreme case, it can happen.
I will express myself differently, because perhaps the examples I chose do not sufficiently highlight my opinion.
The love we have for our loved ones is ordinarily a natural love, and natural love easily falls into the mortal sin of despair or hate in the event of loss. If someone exterminates your family, you should practice a heroic act of charity so as not to hate him, so as not to commit a mortal sin. And if you die from a stroke with this hate it is your salvation that will be compromised, in my opinion this scenario is not purely fictional either. But to have no hatred for the murderer of his family is not ordinarily possible if one does not exercise to surpass the natural love one has for them to love them with a supernatural love.
And the fact that a person can exterminate your family is not an unlikely extreme case, it can happen.
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Mboo
Guest
@AdamPeter
you say
“Oh and married love is actually made supernatural through the sacrament. And, in fact, any love is sanctified if it is done in Christ. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here.”
I think you are confusing. The sacrament gives the grace to love supernaturally, grace is an aid to our will and not a “magic” substance
Grace can be compared to a doping product that an athlete takes to win a race. If he takes this doping product and on the track does not start to run he will not win.
In the same way, if we take the sacraments and we do not have the will to love with supernatural love, the grace of the sacrament will be useless.
To love supernaturally means to love for a motive of Faith, one must want to love supernaturally for the grace of the sacrament to act.
you say
“Oh and married love is actually made supernatural through the sacrament. And, in fact, any love is sanctified if it is done in Christ. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here.”
I think you are confusing. The sacrament gives the grace to love supernaturally, grace is an aid to our will and not a “magic” substance
Grace can be compared to a doping product that an athlete takes to win a race. If he takes this doping product and on the track does not start to run he will not win.
In the same way, if we take the sacraments and we do not have the will to love with supernatural love, the grace of the sacrament will be useless.
To love supernaturally means to love for a motive of Faith, one must want to love supernaturally for the grace of the sacrament to act.
Yes…but it’s extremely unlikely for this to actually happen. Most people will not have to forgive someone for murdering a family member.
I still don’t see what point you are trying to make. My original post is still true in it’s entirety. A husband loves God by his vocation and fulfilling his duties to God and his spouse. I don’t see what all these examples of people having to forgive someone for killing a family member is all about.
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Mboo
Guest
If you love your wife and have hate against one person, you can not enter Heaven!
And the natural love we have for our loved ones can easily turn into hate I showed it above.
What I mean is to detach ourselves from the natural love we have for our loved ones to love them with a supernatural love, otherwise this natural love will be of no merit for you in view of salvation, and you take the risk of seeing it turn into hatred or despair
You understand?
And the natural love we have for our loved ones can easily turn into hate I showed it above.
What I mean is to detach ourselves from the natural love we have for our loved ones to love them with a supernatural love, otherwise this natural love will be of no merit for you in view of salvation, and you take the risk of seeing it turn into hatred or despair
You understand?
I understand, but as most people will not experience their loved one being murdered, it seems like a far out example to give. I also think that there is such a thing as justifiable anger at a person who perpetrated such a crime. You don’t have to hate a person to be angry at them and you certainly don’t have to forgive someone who doesn’t ask for it or isn’t repentant.
In any case this is going off topic.
In any case this is going off topic.
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Mboo
Guest
Contrary to what you say our duty as a Christian is to go to heaven and to go to Heaven we must overcome the trials that God will submit to us. So to love God can consist in loving his wife in a given situation, and it can consist of separating and ceasing all trade with his wife if his attendance becomes an obstacle for our salvation.
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