Low birth rates

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rainereli_rod

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My Dear brothers and sisters in Christ.
Luke 13:7

7 Then he said unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none; cut it down; why does it cumber the ground?

Just recently i read some articles about an alarming the alarming and never seemed (in peace times) phenomenon where young population is in decline. You can check the link below for some references.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3734804/The-world-grows-old-50-countries-including-Britain-Australia-65s-kids-2030-prompting-pensions-crisis.html

This never seen before phenomenon is especially worrying in countries like the US. I have the understanding the the fruits of a family are to produce children for God. Cth. 2201. But in my humble understanding i can see that in some degree that myself and the Christian society in general is missing an important part of God’s will.

And my beloved friends i can see already the consequences in a horrible trend and scares me a lot. You may see Muslims are currently the fastest growing religion, It is not unknown for us the high number of children that muslims women have in comparison than the average population , and i myself cannot see nothing bad with that. Except that should be us ! I realize that for a woman the idea of having more than 5 child is terrifying and for a man too , i am terrified of the idea!!. But i think it shouldn’t be that way. I cannot stop thinking that we are like that three that doesn’t give any fruits and was cut down. Sorry for this rant, I don’t want to point any specific responsibility to women or man. but i sincerely think that our Beloved Church should in a more active manner try to encourage to families to bring children.

I terrify me to think what I going to say when God asked me. “Rainer” where are my childrens ? How many childrens did you gave me ?.

My brothers and sisters , please let us all today pray for the family.

73% Muslims against 35% Christian.

pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/
 
I think having more than 5 kids is a valid fear especially to women. The cost of a child is ridiculous 😦 it’s so expensive to have a child, let alone 5. Some don’t have the energy and health to fuss over 5 kids, and so on. That shouldn’t mean we should be downing birth control pills and having abortions, but according to posters here, it’s not wrong to use nfp. I want at least 3 kids but I know that won’t happen unless i want them to have a difficult life/or if my husband is a millionaire 🙂

I always had a different interpretation of that parable, though. I remember being taught that it was about talents/gifts that are not used for the good of society or something. :confused:

And don’t worry about God asking you that. As long as you stick to the teachings about NFP and stay away from ABC and abortion, he won’t scold you for not having enough kids. Not all of us are meant to have lots of kids, and in come cases, some are not called to have any kids at all (infertility, religious life, career, etc)
 
Lea101 said:
but according to posters here, it’s not wrong to use nfp. I want at least 3 kids but I know that won’t happen unless i want them to have a difficult life/or if my husband is a millionaire 🙂

And don’t worry about God asking you that. As long as you stick to the teachings about NFP and stay away from ABC and abortion, he won’t scold you for not having enough kids. Not all of us are meant to have lots of kids, and in come cases, some are not called to have any kids at all (infertility, religious life, career, etc)
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NFP is still controversial. More and more Christians are believing (rightly) that one must abstain from intercourse entirely once they’re “done” having children reasonably. There is no “natural” birth control because God intended intercourse to be for reproduction. (Though we must also take into account that back then, it was far easier and more inexpensive to raise children.)

According to other sources, NFP is just as sinful as regular birth control because it still prevents God’s will for reproduction. (Certain teaching, irrelevant, just a point, don’t take too seriously)

Just keep in mind that it is not at all foolproof and it may turn out to be a moral conundrum for your family. Remember, the Spirit is there to guide you!
 
Hatikvah said:
NFP is still controversial. More and more Christians are believing (rightly) that one must abstain from intercourse entirely once they’re “done” having children reasonably. There is no “natural” birth control because God intended intercourse to be for reproduction. (Though we must also take into account that back then, it was far easier and more inexpensive to raise children.)

According to one separatist Catholic source, NFP is just as sinful as regular birth control because it still prevents God’s will for reproduction: mostholyfamilymonastery.com/42_NFP.pdf

Just keep in mind that it is not at all foolproof and it may turn out to be a moral conundrum for your family. Remember, the Spirit is there to guide you!
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It’s against forum rules to post links to sedevacantist sites. Please edit to remove the link from your post before you get an infraction and the rest of your post (where you stated “rightly” goes against Catholic teaching) so you might want to edit your entire post. Intercourse is for babies AND bonding. You don’t have to quit being intimate with your spouse when you are no longer able to have children. That is NOT Catholic teaching.
 
Hatikvah said:
NFP is still controversial. More and more Christians are believing (rightly) that one must abstain from intercourse entirely once they’re “done” having children reasonably. There is no “natural” birth control because God intended intercourse to be for reproduction. (Though we must also take into account that back then, it was far easier and more inexpensive to raise children.)

According to one separatist Catholic source, NFP is just as sinful as regular birth control because it still prevents God’s will for reproduction: mostholyfamilymonastery.com/42_NFP.pdf

Just keep in mind that it is not at all foolproof and it may turn out to be a moral conundrum for your family. Remember, the Spirit is there to guide you!
Click to expand...
It’s against forum rules to post links to sedevacantist sites. Please edit to remove the link from your post before you get an infraction and the rest of your post (where you stated “rightly” goes against Catholic teaching) so you might want to edit your entire post. Intercourse is for babies AND bonding. You don’t have to quit being intimate with your spouse when you are no longer able to have children. That is NOT Catholic teaching.
 
LightBound said:
It’s against forum rules to post links to sedevacantist sites. Please edit to remove the link from your post before you get an infraction and the rest of your post (where you stated “rightly” goes against Catholic teaching) so you might want to edit your entire post. Intercourse is for babies AND bonding. You don’t have to quit being intimate with your spouse when you are no longer able to have children. That is NOT Catholic teaching.
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Okay, I amended quickly. Thank you and sorry (I thought that this only applied to Traditional Catholicism). 😦
 
Hatikvah said:
NFP is still controversial. More and more Christians are believing (rightly) that one must abstain from intercourse entirely once they’re “done” having children reasonably. There is no “natural” birth control because God intended intercourse to be for reproduction. (Though we must also take into account that back then, it was far easier and more inexpensive to raise children.)

According to one separatist Catholic source, NFP is just as sinful as regular birth control because it still prevents God’s will for reproduction: mostholyfamilymonastery.com/42_NFP.pdf

Just keep in mind that it is not at all foolproof and it may turn out to be a moral conundrum for your family. Remember, the Spirit is there to guide you!
Click to expand...
Let’s take this to its logical conclusion. Can spouses ONLY have sex when the woman is fertile? Because the way God designed female fertility, we actually aren’t that often. A few days per month.

Sounds like we should all be practicing NFP anyway, just to make sure we never, ever, ever have sex when infertile, whether that’s just the point in our cycle, or because we’re pregnant, or breastfeeding is delaying the return of our cycles, or we’re post-menopausal.

Or maybe God designed us so that the sexual organs could work, even absent fertility, for a reason…
 
Hatikvah said:
Okay, I amended quickly. Thank you and sorry (I thought that this only applied to Traditional Catholicism). 😦
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Thank you. Any site that states NFP is sinful is not faithful to the Catholic Church and really should be avoided simply for the fact if they are going against the Magisterium on that concern, they will be picking and choosing on other issues of faith, too. The cafeteria appears to be open on both sides of the spectrum in Catholicism, sad to say.
 
It’s a hard issue. I know many women who would love to have large families, but suffer from infertility and/or repeated miscarriages, or who are unable to find a spouse. I would love to have 5+ children, but we struggled for over a year to have our four month old, which was a very difficult and traumatic birth, and don’t know if we’ll be able to have more. And I don’t see how we could support more than 2 or 3 unless we moved to a different part of the country.
 
AClaire11 said:
It’s a hard issue. I know many women who would love to have large families, but suffer from infertility and/or repeated miscarriages, or who are unable to find a spouse. I would love to have 5+ children, but we struggled for over a year to have our four month old, which was a very difficult and traumatic birth, and don’t know if we’ll be able to have more. And I don’t see how we could support more than 2 or 3 unless we moved to a different part of the country.
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Despite what others say, the Church does not require that you get married and have lots of babies.

The Church requires that if you get married, you have to be open the life. If you are open to life and have little to no children than you are not sinning. Catholics are not Quiverfullers.

Spreading the gospel and living the Christian life does not involve trying to outbreed the opposition. After all, it is no guarantee that a child born to Catholic parents, no matter how devout, will remain Catholic.
 
I often think about this issue too. I really think the population decline is down to the policies of governments to discourage large families. I think many more women would want more children if society rewarded them for having little baby taxpayers. It’s mostly financial. The Catholic men and women who do have more than 2.5 kids are rewarded with comments such as “Oh boy, you’ve got your hands full”, “are they ALL yours?”, “Are you running your own creche?”, “You should have your tubes tied” etc. People can be really rude in this way.

It would make more sense for society to reward couples that have more children. But the current thinking is for the concern to be immediate economic “progress”. Therefore more women need to be in the workforce and less should be at home with kids. That seems to be the main problem.
 
AdamPeter said:
I often think about this issue too. I really think the population decline is down to the policies of governments to discourage large families. I think many more women would want more children if society rewarded them for having little baby taxpayers. It’s mostly financial. The Catholic men and women who do have more than 2.5 kids are rewarded with comments such as “Oh boy, you’ve got your hands full”, “are they ALL yours?”, “Are you running your own creche?”, “You should have your tubes tied” etc. People can be really rude in this way.

It would make more sense for society to reward couples that have more children. But the current thinking is for the concern to be immediate economic “progress”. Therefore more women need to be in the workforce and less should be at home with kids. That seems to be the main problem.
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AFAIK, though, even major financial incentives for having children have not led to an increase in fertility rate. Once a society dips below replacement rate, it doesn’t recover. If a society were to do that it would be the first in human history.
 
Hatikvah said:
NFP is still controversial. More and more Christians are believing (rightly) that one must abstain from intercourse entirely once they’re “done” having children reasonably. There is no “natural” birth control because God intended intercourse to be for reproduction. (Though we must also take into account that back then, it was far easier and more inexpensive to raise children.)

According to other sources, NFP is just as sinful as regular birth control because it still prevents God’s will for reproduction. (Certain teaching, irrelevant, just a point, don’t take too seriously)

Just keep in mind that it is not at all foolproof and it may turn out to be a moral conundrum for your family. Remember, the Spirit is there to guide you!
Click to expand...
Intercourse has the purpose of creating children, but also the purpose of uniting the husband and wife and strengthening their marriage bond. The marital act is a renewal of their marital Sacrament. It should never be frustrated by ABC. That would be like trying to have a Baptism with orange soda or the Eucharist with vanilla wafers. The Church has never taught that we should only have sex with the intention of becoming pregnant. If that was the case, then we all NEED to learn NFP because we have to know when we’re fertile in order to avoid the sin of having sex outside of ovulation. 🤷
 
Lea101 said:
it’s so expensive to have a child, let alone 5
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People make it expensive to have children with all the things they think they have to buy and do with/for children. It does not have to be expensive. And, the laws of countries can make it easier, should they choose to incent child rearing.
Lea101 said:
I want at least 3 kids but I know that won’t happen unless i want them to have a difficult life/or if my husband is a millionaire
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You do realize poor people have children and love their children and don’t believe this sort of nonsense, right? You do not have to be rich to have children.
 
Sarcelle said:
Despite what others say, the Church does not require that you get married and have lots of babies.

The Church requires that if you get married, you have to be open the life. If you are open to life and have little to no children than you are not sinning. Catholics are not Quiverfullers.

Spreading the gospel and living the Christian life does not involve trying to outbreed the opposition. After all, it is no guarantee that a child born to Catholic parents, no matter how devout, will remain Catholic.
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I wasn’t implying that it was required…merely that many who desire large families are unable to have them.

And expense depends on where you live. Most, if not all, apartments in our area have occupancy limits and so once our child is 3 (other landlords say 1), we’ll have to move into a bigger, much more expensive apartment. 2 bedrooms around here are MINIMUM $1750 a month, plus utilities and fees, for a not very nice place. Occupancy limits for those are 4 people, so a third kid means moving into a 3 bedroom apartment, which are a) rare around here and b) even pricier.
 
1ke said:
People make it expensive to have children with all the things they think they have to buy and do with/for children. It does not have to be expensive. And, the laws of countries can make it easier, should they choose to incent child rearing.

You do realize poor people have children and love their children and don’t believe this sort of nonsense, right? You do not have to be rich to have children.
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Lea101 is writing from Singapore, so the conditions are somewhat different than what we are used to in the US.

For example, I was just looking it up, and the cost of real estate in Singapore is around $2,000 per square foot.

cnbc.com/2015/07/12/bag-a-sort-of-property-bargain-in-singapore-as-prices-fall.html

So, a 200 square foot apartment would be around $400,000.

Unsurprisingly, Singapore’s TFR is 1.29 children per woman.

Hence, a family of four children would be a much more economically daunting enterprise in Singapore than it is in the US.

Lea101, did I get that basically right?
 
AdamPeter said:
The Catholic men and women who do have more than 2.5 kids are rewarded with comments such as “Oh boy, you’ve got your hands full”, “are they ALL yours?”, “Are you running your own creche?”, “You should have your tubes tied” etc. People can be really rude in this way.
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Totally true , that is the reason that from now , i’m changing my mindset respect big families, i declare guilty
 
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