Low birth rates

[rainereli_rod]

Dear friends , I realize that is not a competence.

But the very fact that we will outnumbered for for other religions so drastically, is a sign that us as Christians (myself included) sometimes we are some full is vanity and excuses.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I’m not convinced that those claiming to be Muslim aren’t only so in name only. Keep in mind that in most places with high Muslim concentrations there is the threat of death, punishment, or at least being shun by the community for renouncing the faith.

Also, I’m not sure that most people want to have more than one or two kids, if that. Actually it seems that in the West (see Japan and to smaller extent young adults in USA) there is less effort or even some avoidance/delay of the relationships that lead to children (regardless of abc).

 

[Xantippe]

I’m not convinced that those claiming to be Muslim aren’t only so in name only. Keep in mind that in most places with high Muslim concentrations there is the threat of death, punishment, or at least being shun by the community for renouncing the faith.

Right.

 

[heidi_storage]

Predicting the future is generally a fool’s game, anyway. We don’t know what’s going to happen to Muslim fertility rates.

We in the US briefly did hit replacement rates–was that the early 2000s?–but we’re down again.

 

[Lea101]

Lea101 is writing from Singapore, so the conditions are somewhat different than what we are used to in the US.

For example, I was just looking it up, and the cost of real estate in Singapore is around $2,000 per square foot.

cnbc.com/2015/07/12/bag-a-sort-of-property-bargain-in-singapore-as-prices-fall.html

So, a 200 square foot apartment would be around $400,000.

Unsurprisingly, Singapore’s TFR is 1.29 children per woman.

Hence, a family of four children would be a much more economically daunting enterprise in Singapore than it is in the US.

Lea101, did I get that basically right?

Yes Now look up the prices of cars and you can faintly hear the sounds of us sobbing

How much cheaper is it to raise a bunch of children in the US?

Whenever i think about the cost of hospital visits, diapers, baby food, baby clothes, other baby stuff, cost of childcare, cost of school education, cost of books, uniforms, shoes, stationery, cost of clothes for the growing child to wear, if it’s a girl (pads/tampons, hey it all adds up), etc…

I can feel all of my eggs in my ovaries start to evaporate

 

[Lea101]

I’m not convinced that those claiming to be Muslim aren’t only so in name only. Keep in mind that in most places with high Muslim concentrations there is the threat of death, punishment, or at least being shun by the community for renouncing the faith.

Also, I’m not sure that most people want to have more than one or two kids, if that. Actually it seems that in the West (see Japan and to smaller extent young adults in USA) there is less effort or even some avoidance/delay of the relationships that lead to children (regardless of abc).

Not to mention that Christians in these areas are either killed or forced to convert

 

[pensmama87]

Yes Now look up the prices of cars and you can faintly hear the sounds of us sobbing

How much cheaper is it to raise a bunch of children in the US?

Whenever i think about the cost of hospital visits, diapers, baby food, baby clothes, other baby stuff, cost of childcare, cost of school education, cost of books, uniforms, shoes, stationery, cost of clothes for the growing child to wear, if it’s a girl (pads/tampons, hey it all adds up), etc…

I can feel all of my eggs in my ovaries start to evaporate

Some of that is very oversold as “necessities.” Strictly speaking, most babies and even toddlers need very little and most of that can be gotten for a song. In nations like the US education can be free (and depending on where you live the free education can be very, very good). Really, I didn’t see much increase in our expenses until my oldest starting eating lots and lots of “real people food,” around the age of four or so. He can inhale fruit like nothing else. And now he does a few activities that he really enjoys, but even so they aren’t necessary.

I don’t wish to downplay that children can be expensive to care for well, but I do think their material needs are greatly overstated by those who wish to sell those goods to us. Most of us get by just fine and our children are very, very happy and healthy.

I think it’s more that children are seen as burdens, or as playthings, rather than people who will one day grow up and run society in our place. Economics factor into that, but I don’t think it’s the whole picture, which is why financial incentives haven’t worked.

 

[Lookingforjoy]

Also, keep in mind that we could just be really joyful, kind examples of Catholicism and encourage people to join us in the Catholic Church We don’t HAVE to give birth to all of the Catholics in our churches.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Keep up the prayers.

Short prayers during the day.

Invoke the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I want at least 3 kids but I know that won’t happen unless i want them to have a difficult life/or if my husband is a millionaire

That type of attitude is offensive to my five kids…

 

[Brendan]

I think having more than 5 kids is a valid fear especially to women. The cost of a child is ridiculous it’s so expensive to have a child, let alone 5.)

I am one of 6 children, and I have 6 children myself.

I fondly remember my dad’s comment when he was asked how he could afford to have so many children.

" It costs the same to have six children as it does to have one…every cent 'ya got"

Yea, we didn’t have everything some of my friends have, and my children are in the same boat. But I would not trade a single one of my siblings to have had more ‘stuff’ when I was growing up, and I would not trade a single one of my children for more ‘stuff’ now.

 

[Lea101]

That type of attitude is offensive to my five kids…

Ok…it’s also offensive to my dad with 4 kids, but it’s kind of true. I didn’t grow up with certain privileges and thanks to my parents, my life is now be-the-top-in-class-so-you-get-monetary-awards-so-you-have-money-to-eat-even-though-you-might-kill-yourself-from-the-amount-of-stress-since-your-father-is-unable-to-feed-you. So yeah, not having money=difficult life…

The millionaire comment is obviously hyperbole, but if you and your kids are getting by and they don’t feel like scum for sucking up your money, like most poor kids here, obviously you are making enough money to take care of them…?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Ok…it’s also offensive to my dad with 4 kids, but it’s kind of true. I didn’t grow up with certain privileges and thanks to my parents, my life is now be-the-top-in-class-so-you-get-monetary-awards-so-you-have-money-to-eat-even-though-you-might-kill-yourself-from-the-amount-of-stress-since-your-father-is-unable-to-feed-you. So yeah, not having money=difficult life…

The millionaire comment is obviously hyperbole, but if you and your kids are getting by and they don’t feel like scum for sucking up your money, like most poor kids here, obviously you are making enough money to take care of them…?

Why such an elitist attitude. Are you aware of the happiness of families who are poor?

You should really look into pope Francis’s teaching on the poor.

 

[Lea101]

I am one of 6 children, and I have 6 children myself.

I fondly remember my dad’s comment when he was asked how he could afford to have so many children.

" It costs the same to have six children as it does to have one…every cent 'ya got"

Yea, we didn’t have everything some of my friends have, and my children are in the same boat. But I would not trade a single one of my siblings to have had more ‘stuff’ when I was growing up, and I would not trade a single one of my children for more ‘stuff’ now.

I can relate in the sense that I am happy that my brothers and sister are alive and I would rather have them than to live in a smaller family.

However, I’m awfully aware that my existence denies the things they want and that prevented me from getting appropriate medical/psychiatric help when I was younger because I felt that “my funeral will be a lot cheaper than that”

And I’ll never forgive myself if I had a child who thought the same way.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I can relate in the sense that I am happy that my brothers and sister are alive and I would rather have them than to live in a smaller family.

However, I’m awfully aware that my existence denies the things they want and that prevented me from getting appropriate medical/psychiatric help when I was younger because I felt that “my funeral will be a lot cheaper than that”

And I’ll never forgive myself if I had a child who thought the same way.

You wouldn’t forgive yourself if you had a child who thought like you? That’s not a good thing.

You have Internet access and live in a good society. 99.9999. Percent of people in history and a majority of people living today don’t have the things you have. I must say, your view seems way off.

 

[pensmama87]

I can relate in the sense that I am happy that my brothers and sister are alive and I would rather have them than to live in a smaller family.

However, I’m awfully aware that my existence denies the things they want and that prevented me from getting appropriate medical/psychiatric help when I was younger because I felt that “my funeral will be a lot cheaper than that”

And I’ll never forgive myself if I had a child who thought the same way.

Lea, I remember being 18 and so I realize that I may very well be speaking to a brick wall, but:

I think it would serve you well to recognize that, as many of us have been telling you, you seem to have been dealing with a lot of dysfunction and that’s really going to negatively influence how you see the world around you. You might consider listening to us and “chewing over” what we have to say for a while instead of shooting from the hip.

Not that I’m an old wise married woman, of course, but I know enough now to know I can’t claim to know everything.

 

[Lea101]

Why such an elitist attitude. Are you aware of the happiness of families who are poor?

You should really look into pope Francis’s teaching on the poor.

? I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say.

Of course I’m aware of that. I’m from a ‘rich’ country and the happiness level here according to a study is one of the worst.

However, happy families who are poor are happy because of how they choose to see things. I’m sure you would agree that the lack of money does not make you happy, just like how having money does not make you sad.

My point is not that money will make you happy. I just want my future kids to not grow up the same way as I did.

 

[Lea101]

You wouldn’t forgive yourself if you had a child who thought like you? That’s not a good thing.

You have Internet access and live in a good society. 99.9999. Percent of people in history and a majority of people living today don’t have the things you have. I must say, your view seems way off.

So your post is…? My feelings are not valid because other people have it worse or?

 

[Brendan]

?My point is not that money will make you happy. I just want my future kids to not grow up the same way as I did.

Give them a happier one, one filled with lots of siblings to share their life with

As Pope John Paul II said: “The greatest gift you can give your child is another sibling”

 

[Lea101]

Lea, I remember being 18 and so I realize that I may very well be speaking to a brick wall, but:

I think it would serve you well to recognize that, as many of us have been telling you, you seem to have been dealing with a lot of dysfunction and that’s really going to negatively influence how you see the world around you. You might consider listening to us and “chewing over” what we have to say for a while instead of shooting from the hip.

Not that I’m an old wise married woman, of course, but I know enough now to know I can’t claim to know everything.

That is true for some cases but not this IMO.

I have volunteered for some events before which allowed me to meet other families who are poor as well/poorer than me. Most kids there, while they loved their families, felt like burdens and they felt more pressure to do well to earn money (or to compensate).

This pressure can be good, that’s how we get success stories of poor people working hard to be doctors, lawyers etc. But for people who are not naturally gifted in learning, it could shatter them.

I am not sure if it is generally an Asian mindset, but I have also seen american kids venting about it. People think that their kids are not feeling this way but why on earth would they ever want to make their parents feel guilty

Nobody is denying that there are happy people with no money, and I don’t get why people are offended because I personally do not want a lot of kids if I cannot provide for them