Lucid Dreaming and Responsibility

  • Thread starter Thread starter hatcheteer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hatcheteer

Guest
After watching the film “Waking Life” a few nights ago, I’ve been mulling over a question in my mind.

Lucid dreaming, as best as I can describe it, is the phenomenon that occurs when one, while dreaming, realizes that one is in a dream, and continues that dream with this knowledge. Apparently, with this knowledge, one can manipulate their dream-environment in a myriad of ways to a number of effects: meeting dead loved ones, flying, living in a palace, etc…

My question is this. If one is lucid dreaming, how morally responsible are they for the actions they perform in that dream? Considering the possibilities of lucid dreaming, including such things as extramarital sex or violent fantasies, is one as morally responsible for these actions as they would be concious? If so, is a mortal sin in a lucid dream a mortal sin when you wake up?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
I hope not Ive murdered and commited suicide in such dreams…

you need to understand thats not violent behavoir so much as an action made with the knoledge that in a bad dream it permenatly rids me of that particular plot.

given that instance lets see how the debate turns out.
 
I’m familliar with the theory of lucid dreams. However, as science still doesn’t know why we have any dreams at all, I’m going to claim that the science behind lucid dreaming is sketchy at best.

What I mean is this: I’m not convinced that the dreamer is 100% in control of his dreams. I understand that brain wave patterns are different in an alleged lucid dream, but that doesn’t mean the dreamer is leading the dream. It’s possible that the altered brain waves represent an experience where the dreamer thinks he’s leading the dream, but, in fact, the dream is still leading him.

So, I’m putting in for the “not morally responsible” vote. I don’t think one can be accused of, say, entertaining thoughts of lust in a lucid dream any more than he could a “regular” dream.

Once he is fully awake, however, then it’s a different story.
 
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Cari, I’m inclined to agree; I really dont know how much of these lucid dreams really are completely controlled by the “aware” individual.
 
hatcheteer said:
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Cari, I’m inclined to agree; I really dont know how much of these lucid dreams really are completely controlled by the “aware” individual.
Click to expand...
How do we know our waking life is completely controlled by the aware individual? If we know that answer, then it might apply to the lucid dream, too.
 
Cari said:
I’m familliar with the theory of lucid dreams. However, as science still doesn’t know why we have any dreams at all, I’m going to claim that the science behind lucid dreaming is sketchy at best.

What I mean is this: I’m not convinced that the dreamer is 100% in control of his dreams. I understand that brain wave patterns are different in an alleged lucid dream, but that doesn’t mean the dreamer is leading the dream. It’s possible that the altered brain waves represent an experience where the dreamer thinks he’s leading the dream, but, in fact, the dream is still leading him.

So, I’m putting in for the “not morally responsible” vote. I don’t think one can be accused of, say, entertaining thoughts of lust in a lucid dream any more than he could a “regular” dream.

Once he is fully awake, however, then it’s a different story.
Click to expand...
I have had many dreams I could control to some extent, but none where I was in full conscious control in the same way as when I’m awake. In fact, being half-asleep or drowsy significantly weakens one’s control. I would suggest that in a lucid dream one is capable of sinning venially but not mortally.

Edwin
 
I’ve had many semi-lucid dreams, and I find that in that state, even though I can control some of what appears in my dream, I am not in full control of my judgment. It’s sort of like being really inebriated, I would guess.

I think only the individual having the dream would know his motivations and level of culpability if a sin were committed in that dream.
 
Our Parish Priest brought up this very topic in a class a few weeks back. He stated that we are not responsible for, and shouldn’t have undue concerns about what happens when we are asleep / semi-concious / dreaming.

You are not in control of this part (or actions) of the brain during these times. Your “decision making” center is more or less switched off.

(I have a re-occurring one from time to time, a flying one :cool: , and yes I seem to be able to bank, turn, dive at will, and “fly” to places I want to go!)
 
When I was younger I was able to manipulate a dream to make myself a comic book character but I could never get my powers to work by the way. No im not sure if somone can be in full control over where there dream goes.
 
The Christian monastic tradition is familiar with impulsive dreams, especially those during sleep, which often involved erotic images.

Impulsive dreams in a way to the monks represented mental images stirred up by ‘demons’ from eight different spiritual vices;

Gluttony. Anxiety about one’s health, leading to inordinate concern about food. When Evagrius’ own diet of uncooked foods made him sick, he switched to cooked food.
Fornication. Desire for imaginary bodies, as unreal as the sicknesses mentioned above. This vice like the preceding tries to seduce us from orderly moral regimen.
•Greed. Futile planning for an unreal future.
Sadness, which often follows from indulging in foolish wants or not getting what we want.
Anger. Can ruin health and cause bad dreams. Rather than brooding on our wrongs, we should go out of our way to do good to the person who wronged us.
Acedia (melancholy; depression). Listlessness, weariness of heart, which tempts the monk to abandon his calling.
Vain glory: Vain glory is daydreaming about our greatness, holiness, etc.
•Pride: supposing we can do anything without God.

The culpability the monk had for these dreams depended on how much the monk succumbed to the temptations these thoughts and dreams presented; it was not a sin to be tempted, but it was a sin to surrender to the temptation (even only in the heart).

Dreams like these try and excite our physical and mental pleasure centres and in doing so, distract us from our quest for God. So long as we don’t consent in will to them doing this, and we try as best we can to get to the deep mental source and root it out (which Christian meditiations in various forms do very well) we do not, to my understanding, sin gravely, unless we accept the thoughts in our heart or implement them in the real world by acting on the desires they excite.
 
Every now and then I have a dream where I realize that I am dreaming. I have never felt that I could make anything happen that I wanted to in the dream. Usually, the dream is annoying, and I just try to get myself to wake up. Getting myself to wake up is harder than it sounds. Sometimes I am just wandering around in the dream saying to myself, “This is a dream…I know it’s a dream,” but that is not enough to wake me up.
 
In my previous life I used to have lucid dreams where I would do unspeakable things precisely because I knew I was dreaming and it “didn’t count.”

I have had some lucid dreams recently (in my “present life”), but I have not chosen to do those unspeakable things. One funny example happened just the other night.

Two of the triggers for knowing I’m dreaming are seeing tornadoes and seeing an airplane crash. In this particular dream I looked out the window to see a tornado, and I said, “I’m dreaming–you know what that means–” and started with the “unspeakable thing.” Then I stopped, said, “No, I’m not doing this,” and turned back to just watch the tornado funnels until the dream faded.

I still have dreams where I do “unspeakable things,” but they’re not dreams where I’m in control. I’ve decided, tho–next lucid dream I want to talk to the Blessed Virgin.

DaveBj
 
I’ve decided, tho–next lucid dream I want to talk to the Blessed Virgin.
Click to expand...
Why wait until you’re asleep? Do it now! 👍

I, personally, seem to recall a childhood FULL of dreams over which I had considerable control. I think I had control over my own actions in a “first-person” or a “third-person” (looking at myself, but still “controlling me,” if that makes sense) way, but had no control over other things going on outside of my dream-world self.

I don’t recall ever doing anything that I would normally consider morally wrong; however, I do remember several “impossible” situations. Nothing evil, so to speak, though.

I think that even in a dream in which a person has considerable awareness and control, he/she is still not at all morally culpable for anything that goes on. Sin requires complete consent of the will and full knowledge of the act’s evil nature, both of which are not possible in an unconscious state, at least as far as I know.
 
hatcheteer said:
After watching the film “Waking Life” a few nights ago, I’ve been mulling over a question in my mind.

Lucid dreaming, as best as I can describe it, is the phenomenon that occurs when one, while dreaming, realizes that one is in a dream, and continues that dream with this knowledge. Apparently, with this knowledge, one can manipulate their dream-environment in a myriad of ways to a number of effects: meeting dead loved ones, flying, living in a palace, etc…

My question is this. If one is lucid dreaming, how morally responsible are they for the actions they perform in that dream? Considering the possibilities of lucid dreaming, including such things as extramarital sex or violent fantasies, is one as morally responsible for these actions as they would be concious? If so, is a mortal sin in a lucid dream a mortal sin when you wake up?

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
Click to expand...
I used to be really fascinated in the idea of lucid dreams, and also being quite interested in moral topics, I’ve come to a fairly certain conclusion about this.

Lucid dreams (if you have full, conscious control of your dream) are virtually equal if not equal to thoughts posited in waking life. For example, if you fantasize doing something impure in a dream, it would be the same as thinking an impure thought about it during a waking hour.

This does NOT hold true for normal dreams where one is not conscious of what they are doing.
 
tvdxer said:
I used to be really fascinated in the idea of lucid dreams, and also being quite interested in moral topics, I’ve come to a fairly certain conclusion about this.

Lucid dreams (if you have full, conscious control of your dream) are virtually equal if not equal to thoughts posited in waking life. For example, if you fantasize doing something impure in a dream, it would be the same as thinking an impure thought about it during a waking hour.

This does NOT hold true for normal dreams where one is not conscious of what they are doing.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100%
 
I used to practice lucid dreaming a few years ago and I’ve experienced that while in my waking life, I would resist temptations, it was a hundredfold more difficult to resist the same temptations in the lucid dreams I’ve had, which is why I stopped practicing it. I’m not sure if one can truly have full control in dreams and if something sinful is done in such dreams, I don’t think it would be a mortal sin. Though if one would deliberately plan to do something bad beforehand, it could be.
 
WAKING LIFE used to be a favorite of Mine.

I now look at it with a somewhat “jaundiced eye,” particulalry since I now can see its New Age ovetones more clearly than before. It is also now a tad too Socialistic for my taste, as well. :rolleyes:

To answer the question put here—I would tend to NOT assign reponsibility to an act committed while “Lucid Dreaming,” but that is just ME. The post above me MAY have a point, though. 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top