H
henrikhank
Guest
Pax!
According to the Bible was Lucifer a great musician in Heaven?
According to the Bible was Lucifer a great musician in Heaven?
- Status
L
louisak
Guest
I have never heard that before.
Actually the name “Lucifer”, as a name for Satan or the chief of the fallen angels, is not given in the Bible. The history of how this name became associated with Satan is somewhat hard to summarize, here is an article on Wikipedia and here is one in the Catholic Encyclopedia
Actually the name “Lucifer”, as a name for Satan or the chief of the fallen angels, is not given in the Bible. The history of how this name became associated with Satan is somewhat hard to summarize, here is an article on Wikipedia and here is one in the Catholic Encyclopedia
F
FaithInTheLord
Guest
Lucifer is a name for Satan before his fall. I will base this post on what I have found in Catholic demonology. I only base what I say off of Catholic demonology because the rest could easily come from demons themselves.
He was a Seraph (SP?), the highest order of angels.
St. Michael the Archangel was, before this, a part of the 2nd to the lowest order of angels.
According to Catholic demonology, he was in charge of the music. As we know, God and the Angels do love it when we sing to them (even though I can’t sing at all
). Angels have been known to sing to people who are under demonic attack and ask for help(no concrete proof sorry).
When God was asking the Angels if they would serve him, Satan said “I will not serve”.
St. Michael the Archangel said “Who is like God?” (This is what the name Michael literally means). This response (according to Catholic demonology) caused God to make Michael an Archangel and have him cast every last fallen angel out of Heaven all by himself.
I do not know where this information comes from, I only know it is commonly accepted.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will reply.
He was a Seraph (SP?), the highest order of angels.
St. Michael the Archangel was, before this, a part of the 2nd to the lowest order of angels.
According to Catholic demonology, he was in charge of the music. As we know, God and the Angels do love it when we sing to them (even though I can’t sing at all
). Angels have been known to sing to people who are under demonic attack and ask for help(no concrete proof sorry).When God was asking the Angels if they would serve him, Satan said “I will not serve”.
St. Michael the Archangel said “Who is like God?” (This is what the name Michael literally means). This response (according to Catholic demonology) caused God to make Michael an Archangel and have him cast every last fallen angel out of Heaven all by himself.
I do not know where this information comes from, I only know it is commonly accepted.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will reply.
D
dailey
Guest
Interesting topic. I have a question about Lucifer, if you don’t mind.
Is he burning in hell in pain, like the rest of the souls who have ended up there…or is he not going to feel the pains of hell until the end of time?
Is he burning in hell in pain, like the rest of the souls who have ended up there…or is he not going to feel the pains of hell until the end of time?
D
Dorothy
Guest
If you go to this site you can read a very revealing insight regarding demons.
rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/10/13/what-is-a-demon
It is an excerpt from a book titled: “Interview with an Exorcist” by Father Jose Antonio Fortea. That is only part of the information in his book that you will find at the site.
The site that I got this from is also excellent for Catholic Spiritual Direction topics.
rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/10/13/what-is-a-demon
It is an excerpt from a book titled: “Interview with an Exorcist” by Father Jose Antonio Fortea. That is only part of the information in his book that you will find at the site.
The site that I got this from is also excellent for Catholic Spiritual Direction topics.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Part 1 of 2
The Latin word lucifer seems to have been carried over from the Latin Vulgate to the KJV in Isaiah 14:12, and became a Protestant proof text for the fall of Satan. Isaiah 14:12 is actually speaking of a Babylonian king.
The Latin Vulgate does not use lucifer or luciferum as a proper name. It is used as a description.
The Douay-Rheims translated lucifer and luciferum into English, as day star in every passage except Isaiah 14:12–where the Latin word lucifer is retained.
Douay-Rheims: Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
King James Version: Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Lnk for Latin Vulgate and Douay-Rheims side by side: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=1&b=22
Latin Vulgate: 2 Peter 1:19 “et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris”
Douay-Rheims: 2 Peter 1:19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts.
Latin Vulgate: Isaiah 14:12 “quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes”
Douay-Rheims: Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
Link: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=27&c=14
Latin Vulgate: Job 11:17 “et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam et cum te consumptum putaveris orieris ut lucifer”
Douay-Rheims: Job 11:17 And brightness like that of the noonday, shall arise to thee at evening: and when thou shalt think thyself consumed, thou shalt rise as the day star.
Link: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=20&c=11
Latin Vulgate: Job 38:32 “numquid producis luciferum in tempore suo et vesperum super filios terrae consurgere facis”
Douay-Rheims: Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth the day star in its time, and make the evening star to rise upon the children of the earth?
Link: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=20&c=38
There was actually a bishop named Lucifer, known as Lucifer of Cagliari. He was born in the early part of the 4th century and died in 371 A.D. Link: newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm
Also, the word lucifer is used in Roman Rite liturgy’s Exultet chant in praise of the paschal candle and refers to Christ as the Morning Star (in Latin, lucifer, with lower-case initial): “. . . . . .Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:Ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum:Christus Filius tuus,qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit,et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.”
Link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
Catholic Link: unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/search?q=Exultet
From the research I have done, it appears the Latin word lucifer actually became associated with Satan outside the Bible in works like Dante Alighieri’s Inferno and Milton’s Paradise Lost. Though, some ECF’s did adopt the association of lucifer with Satan.
Quote from a Catholic source:
(separation of lines and emphasis is mine throughout)
"Lucifer (Hebr. helel; Septuagint eosphoros, Vulgate Lucifer) originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliancy.
The Vulgate employs the word also for “the light of the morning” (Job, xi,17),
“the signs of the zodiac” (Job, xxxviiii, 32), and “the aurora” (Ps., cix, 3).
Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Is., xiv, 12) as preeminent among the princes of his time;
to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclus.,1, 6), for his surpassing virtue;
to the glory of heaven (Apoc., ii, 28), by reason of its excellency;
finally, to Jesus Christ himself (II Petr., i, 19; Apoc., xxii, 16; the “Exultet” of Holy Saturday), the true light of our spiritual life.
The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yal4l, “to lament”; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Is., i, 14; P.L., XXIV, 161), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel, who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, “De Angelis”, III, iii, 4). . . ."
A. J. MAAS Link: oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Lucifer
Continued----Page 2
My findings regarding the Latin word lucifer:
The Latin word lucifer seems to have been carried over from the Latin Vulgate to the KJV in Isaiah 14:12, and became a Protestant proof text for the fall of Satan. Isaiah 14:12 is actually speaking of a Babylonian king.
The Latin Vulgate does not use lucifer or luciferum as a proper name. It is used as a description.
The Douay-Rheims translated lucifer and luciferum into English, as day star in every passage except Isaiah 14:12–where the Latin word lucifer is retained.
Douay-Rheims: Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
King James Version: Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Lnk for Latin Vulgate and Douay-Rheims side by side: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=1&b=22
Latin Vulgate: 2 Peter 1:19 “et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris”
Douay-Rheims: 2 Peter 1:19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts.
Latin Vulgate: Isaiah 14:12 “quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes”
Douay-Rheims: Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
Link: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=27&c=14
Latin Vulgate: Job 11:17 “et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam et cum te consumptum putaveris orieris ut lucifer”
Douay-Rheims: Job 11:17 And brightness like that of the noonday, shall arise to thee at evening: and when thou shalt think thyself consumed, thou shalt rise as the day star.
Link: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=20&c=11
Latin Vulgate: Job 38:32 “numquid producis luciferum in tempore suo et vesperum super filios terrae consurgere facis”
Douay-Rheims: Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth the day star in its time, and make the evening star to rise upon the children of the earth?
Link: latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=20&c=38
There was actually a bishop named Lucifer, known as Lucifer of Cagliari. He was born in the early part of the 4th century and died in 371 A.D. Link: newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm
Also, the word lucifer is used in Roman Rite liturgy’s Exultet chant in praise of the paschal candle and refers to Christ as the Morning Star (in Latin, lucifer, with lower-case initial): “. . . . . .Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:Ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum:Christus Filius tuus,qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit,et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.”
Link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
Catholic Link: unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/search?q=Exultet
From the research I have done, it appears the Latin word lucifer actually became associated with Satan outside the Bible in works like Dante Alighieri’s Inferno and Milton’s Paradise Lost. Though, some ECF’s did adopt the association of lucifer with Satan.
Quote from a Catholic source:
(separation of lines and emphasis is mine throughout)
"Lucifer (Hebr. helel; Septuagint eosphoros, Vulgate Lucifer) originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliancy.
The Vulgate employs the word also for “the light of the morning” (Job, xi,17),
“the signs of the zodiac” (Job, xxxviiii, 32), and “the aurora” (Ps., cix, 3).
Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Is., xiv, 12) as preeminent among the princes of his time;
to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclus.,1, 6), for his surpassing virtue;
to the glory of heaven (Apoc., ii, 28), by reason of its excellency;
finally, to Jesus Christ himself (II Petr., i, 19; Apoc., xxii, 16; the “Exultet” of Holy Saturday), the true light of our spiritual life.
The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yal4l, “to lament”; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Is., i, 14; P.L., XXIV, 161), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel, who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, “De Angelis”, III, iii, 4). . . ."
A. J. MAAS Link: oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Lucifer
Continued----Page 2
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Continued—Part 2 of 2
BibleGateway.com
Some other Bible translations that do contain the word Lucifer:
Darby Translation (DARBY) by Public Domain
Isaiah 14:11-13
11 – Thy pomp is brought down to Sheol, the noise of thy lyres: the maggot is spread under thee, and worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art cut down to the ground, that didst prostrate the nations! 13 And thou that didst say in thy heart, I will ascend into the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of ùGod, and I will sit upon the mount of assembly, in the recesses of the north;
Knox Bible (KNOX)
Isaias 14:11-13
11 All thy pride sunk down into the world beneath, and there thy corpse lies, with the moth for its shroud, worms for its cerecloth. 2 What, fallen from heaven, thou Lucifer, that once didst herald the dawn? Prostrate on the earth, that didst once bring nations to their knees? 13 I will scale the heavens (such was thy thought); I will set my throne higher than God’s stars, take my seat at his own trysting-place, at the meeting of the northern hills;
The Message (MSG)
Revelation 2:3-5
2-3 “I see what you’ve done, your hard, hard work, your refusal to quit. I know you can’t stomach evil, that you weed out apostolic pretenders. I know your persistence, your courage in my cause, that you never wear out. 4-5 “But you walked away from your first love—why? What’s going on with you, anyway? Do you have any idea how far you’ve fallen? A Lucifer fall! “Turn back! Recover your dear early love. No time to waste, for I’m well on my way to removing your light from the golden circle.
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
Job 38:31-33
31 Whether thou shalt be able to join together [the] shining stars (called) Pleiades, that is, the seven stars, either thou shalt be able to destroy the compass of Arcturus? (or shalt thou be able to destroy the orbit of Orion?) 32 Whether thou bringest forth Lucifer, that is, the day star, in his time, and makest the even star to rise upon the sons of [the] earth? (Bringest thou forth Mazzaloth in its time, that is, the stars and the constellations, or makest Arcturus to rise upon the sons of the earth?) 33 Whether thou knowest the order of heaven, and shall set the reason thereof in [the] earth? (Knowest thou the order of the heavens, and can thou impose that order here on earth?)
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
Isaiah 14:11-13
11 Thy pride is drawn down to hells, thy dead carrion fell down (Thy pride is drawn down to Sheol, or the land of the dead, thy corpses fell down); a moth shall be strewed under thee, and thy covering shall be worms. 12 A! Lucifer, that risedest early, how fellest thou down from heaven; thou that woundedest folks, felledest down (al)together into [the] earth. (O! Lucifer, who risedest up early, how thou hast fallen down from heaven; thou who hast wounded the nations, fell down to the ground.) 13 Which saidest in thine heart, I shall ascend into heaven, I shall enhance my seat above the stars of (the) heaven(s); I shall sit in the hill of (the) testament, in the sides of the north. (Who saidest in thy heart, I shall ascend into heaven, I shall exalt, or I shall set, my throne above the stars of the heavens; I shall sit on the mountain where the gods meet, on the sides of the north.)
Some Bible translations that do not contain the word Lucifer:
American Standard Version (ASV)
Copyright © 1901 by Public Domain
Common English Bible (CEB)
Copyright © 2011 by Common English Bible
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Copyright © 1995 by American Bible Society
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Copyright © 1995 by God’s Word to the Nations. Used by permission of Baker Publishing Group
Good News Translation (GNT)
Copyright © 1992 by American Bible Society
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003 by Holman Bible Publishers, Nashville Tennessee. All rights reserved.
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
J. B. Phillips, “The New Testament in Modern English”, 1962 edition by HarperCollins
Lexham English Bible (LEB)
2012 by Logos Bible Software. Lexham is a registered trademark of Logos Bible Software
The Mounce Reverse-Interlinear™ New Testament (MOUNCE)
Copyright © 2011 by Robert H. Mounce and William D. Mounce. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. “Reverse-Interlinear” is a trademark of William D. Mounce.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
New Century Version (NCV)
The Holy Bible, New Century Version®. Copyright © 2005 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
New Life Version (NLV)
Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright© 1996, 2004, 2007 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved. [NLT at Tyndale] [Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.]
Today’s New International Version (TNIV)
© Copyright 2001, 2005 by Biblica
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
© 1969, 1971, 1996, 1998 by SOON Educational Publications
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)
by Public Domain
BibleGateway.com
Some other Bible translations that do contain the word Lucifer:
Darby Translation (DARBY) by Public Domain
Isaiah 14:11-13
11 – Thy pomp is brought down to Sheol, the noise of thy lyres: the maggot is spread under thee, and worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art cut down to the ground, that didst prostrate the nations! 13 And thou that didst say in thy heart, I will ascend into the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of ùGod, and I will sit upon the mount of assembly, in the recesses of the north;
Knox Bible (KNOX)
Isaias 14:11-13
11 All thy pride sunk down into the world beneath, and there thy corpse lies, with the moth for its shroud, worms for its cerecloth. 2 What, fallen from heaven, thou Lucifer, that once didst herald the dawn? Prostrate on the earth, that didst once bring nations to their knees? 13 I will scale the heavens (such was thy thought); I will set my throne higher than God’s stars, take my seat at his own trysting-place, at the meeting of the northern hills;
The Message (MSG)
Revelation 2:3-5
2-3 “I see what you’ve done, your hard, hard work, your refusal to quit. I know you can’t stomach evil, that you weed out apostolic pretenders. I know your persistence, your courage in my cause, that you never wear out. 4-5 “But you walked away from your first love—why? What’s going on with you, anyway? Do you have any idea how far you’ve fallen? A Lucifer fall! “Turn back! Recover your dear early love. No time to waste, for I’m well on my way to removing your light from the golden circle.
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
Job 38:31-33
31 Whether thou shalt be able to join together [the] shining stars (called) Pleiades, that is, the seven stars, either thou shalt be able to destroy the compass of Arcturus? (or shalt thou be able to destroy the orbit of Orion?) 32 Whether thou bringest forth Lucifer, that is, the day star, in his time, and makest the even star to rise upon the sons of [the] earth? (Bringest thou forth Mazzaloth in its time, that is, the stars and the constellations, or makest Arcturus to rise upon the sons of the earth?) 33 Whether thou knowest the order of heaven, and shall set the reason thereof in [the] earth? (Knowest thou the order of the heavens, and can thou impose that order here on earth?)
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
Isaiah 14:11-13
11 Thy pride is drawn down to hells, thy dead carrion fell down (Thy pride is drawn down to Sheol, or the land of the dead, thy corpses fell down); a moth shall be strewed under thee, and thy covering shall be worms. 12 A! Lucifer, that risedest early, how fellest thou down from heaven; thou that woundedest folks, felledest down (al)together into [the] earth. (O! Lucifer, who risedest up early, how thou hast fallen down from heaven; thou who hast wounded the nations, fell down to the ground.) 13 Which saidest in thine heart, I shall ascend into heaven, I shall enhance my seat above the stars of (the) heaven(s); I shall sit in the hill of (the) testament, in the sides of the north. (Who saidest in thy heart, I shall ascend into heaven, I shall exalt, or I shall set, my throne above the stars of the heavens; I shall sit on the mountain where the gods meet, on the sides of the north.)
Some Bible translations that do not contain the word Lucifer:
American Standard Version (ASV)
Copyright © 1901 by Public Domain
Common English Bible (CEB)
Copyright © 2011 by Common English Bible
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Copyright © 1995 by American Bible Society
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Copyright © 1995 by God’s Word to the Nations. Used by permission of Baker Publishing Group
Good News Translation (GNT)
Copyright © 1992 by American Bible Society
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003 by Holman Bible Publishers, Nashville Tennessee. All rights reserved.
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
J. B. Phillips, “The New Testament in Modern English”, 1962 edition by HarperCollins
Lexham English Bible (LEB)
2012 by Logos Bible Software. Lexham is a registered trademark of Logos Bible Software
The Mounce Reverse-Interlinear™ New Testament (MOUNCE)
Copyright © 2011 by Robert H. Mounce and William D. Mounce. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. “Reverse-Interlinear” is a trademark of William D. Mounce.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
New Century Version (NCV)
The Holy Bible, New Century Version®. Copyright © 2005 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
New Life Version (NLV)
Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright© 1996, 2004, 2007 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved. [NLT at Tyndale] [Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.]
Today’s New International Version (TNIV)
© Copyright 2001, 2005 by Biblica
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
© 1969, 1971, 1996, 1998 by SOON Educational Publications
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)
by Public Domain
S
Scottish_Monk
Guest
Anna Scott…
You have a lot of research in your two posts. Thanks for sharing your research.
…Scottish Monk
You have a lot of research in your two posts. Thanks for sharing your research.
…Scottish Monk
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Scottish Monk,
Glad you appreciate the research. The problem is when I post this research on Lucifer, people rarely comment on it. I don’t get it.
Peace and blessings to you my friend,
Anna
D
Dorothy
Guest
Anna Scott,Scottish Monk,
Glad you appreciate the research. The problem is when I post this research on Lucifer, people rarely comment on it. I don’t get it.
Peace and blessings to you my friend,
Anna
I’ll speak for myself, but a lot of scholarly work like that is over my head. I did recognize some things in the poetry of some of the Scriptures, and that’s the best I can do.
I do believe it was the sin of pride, and that Lucifer said “Non servium”, and other angels agreed with him.
Thank you for sharing,
Dorothy
S
Scottish_Monk
Guest
Experiences with Lucifer Matches (newspaper article, 1835)
Lucifer matches dipped in “Brimstone”
“Until “lucifers” [matches invented in the 1830s] became cheap and in general use, the matches sold by the street-folks…were usually prepared by themselves…Wooden splints, twice or thrice the length of the lucifer matches now in use, were prepared, and dipped into brimstone, melted in an iron ladle. The matches were never…self-igniting, or…ignitable by rapid friction; but it was necessary to “strike a light” by the concussion of a flint and steel, the sparks from which were communicated to tinder kept in a “box”.
The brimstone match-sellers were of all ages, but principally…old people. Many of them…wore tattered regimentals, or some remains of military paraphernalia, and had been…soldiers, but not entitled to a pension; the same with seamen. [Some] of the match-sellers…displaced their “brimstones” for “lucifers”, and traded on as usual.”
Henry Mayhew, London Labour and the London Poor, 1851
…Scottish Monk
D
DaveBj
Guest
Just as a side note, in Sardinia there is a 4th-century bishop named Lucifer Calaritanus who is venerated as a saint. St. Lucifer! Who’d have thunk it?
D
Dorothy
Guest
Lucifer means light, and it was the name ascribed to Satan before he fell from grace. But, of course it has a different connotation now - I wouldn’t ever have dreamed of naming any of my sons that!
I assume that bishop’s momma was thinking of “light” when she named her son. Glad to hear he is venerated as a saint!
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Scottish,
You know I always love your graphics. :clapping:
Very interesting story about the “lucifers.” They were just igniting all over the place, which is quite ironic given the association of lucifer with Satan and Hell.
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Dave,
Yes, Lucifer Calaritanus is Lucifer of Cagliari. However, I didn’t know he was a venerated saint.
Thanks,
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Dorothy,Lucifer means light, and it was the name ascribed to Satan before he fell from grace. But, of course it has a different connotation now - I wouldn’t ever have dreamed of naming any of my sons that!
I assume that bishop’s momma was thinking of “light” when she named her son. Glad to hear he is venerated as a saint!
I think it would be a safe assumption that the momma of Lucifer Calaritanus had something in mind other than “Satan.” The evolution of the word “lucifer” is really quite fascinating and is one example of the evolution of language and the meanings that words acquire throughout history.
Thanks,
Anna
D
DaveBj
Guest
He’s venerated on Sardinia, not universally.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
S
Sam_777
Guest
(Isaiah 14:12-14) KJV:
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
S
Sam_777
Guest
Lucifer is a name for Satan before his fall. I will base this post on what I have found in Catholic demonology. I only base what I say off of Catholic demonology because the rest could easily come from demons themselves.
He was a Seraph (SP?), the highest order of angels.
St. Michael the Archangel was, before this, a part of the 2nd to the lowest order of angels.
According to Catholic demonology, he was in charge of the music. As we know, God and the Angels do love it when we sing to them (even though I can’t sing at all
When God was asking the Angels if they would serve him, Satan said “I will not serve”.
St. Michael the Archangel said “Who is like God?” (This is what the name Michael literally means). This response (according to Catholic demonology) caused God to make Michael an Archangel and have him cast every last fallen angel out of Heaven all by himself.
I do not know where this information comes from, I only know it is commonly accepted.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will reply.
FaithInTheLord, we need link for that please, or if you can scan the document and attach it to your post…- Status