Lucifer's angelic rank/choir?

[Nicea325]

The other day I was flipping through the channels and I stumbled across I believe was a fundamentalist preacher. Anyway he stated Lucifer was an archangel? From what I have heard and understood many scholars place him with the ranks of the Cherubim? Some even with the Serpahim rank? I believe Luicfer belonged within the ranks of the Seraphim. It is only my opinion,not a celestial fact.

 

[paduard]

Lucifer is still regarded as a ‘fallen’ angel. As for ranks/choirs I think some still think in terms that hell could be likened to heaven’s degree of glory; only working in reverse order and placed within misery instead of glory.

 

[SonCatcher]

The fundamentalist probably means that Lucifer was a high-ranking angel (which the Seraphim certainly are). They lost a lot when they rejected all catechism and sought to discover the whole of faith on their own from only one font.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

It stands to reason. Lucifer was the most powerful and beautiful angel God ever made. He was God’s number one (until we came along anyways). Lucifer’s rebellion is truly tragic. Not that I sympathize with what he and the others did in rebelling against God. But to be held in such high favor by God Himself, only to lose faith. But just as with humans, the angels chose their own fates when they decided to serve God through love or rebel against Him out of pride and hate.

 

[Bballer32]

I have heard that Lucifer was a Seraphim, which is the highest angel. (Then, it goes Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, and Angels.) Now, when you look at a statue or picture of St. Michael he is usually crushing Lucifer, right? Well, i heard that St. Michael helps beat up Lucifer because its an act of humility for a Seraphim to be beaten by a lowly Archangel. It’s God’s way of “beating someone with humility”

I think it makes sense but i guess i don’t know the official teaching.

 

[jesus4ever]

i have read twice now that jesus has said to 2 different people/ venisonaries that if he only apologized and asked for forgiveness that he will be forgiven and would be allowed back into heaven. i read this in the book called the boy who met jesus by Immaculee Ilibagiza’s the boys name was Segatashya
also Sister Maria Natalia of the Sisters of St. Mary Magdelene site is:

scribd.com/doc/25091544/The-Victorious-Queen-of-the-World

However he refuses to say that he is sorry.

 

[Splagchnizomai]

IIRC Peter Kreeft in his Angels (and Demons) puts him with the Seraphim, the highest order of angels.

 

[Erich]

i have read twice now that jesus has said to 2 different people/ venisonaries …

So… venisonaries don’t have anything to do with venison, then?

 

[Nicea325]

I have heard that Lucifer was a Seraphim, which is the highest angel. (Then, it goes Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, and Angels.) Now, when you look at a statue or picture of St. Michael he is usually crushing Lucifer, right? Well, i heard that St. Michael helps beat up Lucifer because its an act of humility for a Seraphim to be beaten by a lowly Archangel. It’s God’s way of “beating someone with humility”

I think it makes sense but i guess i don’t know the official teaching.

Yes I too have heard and read Lucifer was a Seraphim angel. I believe he was one and still retains those falculties but for evil.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I have read that he is of the Seraphim. I have also read that none of the Seraphim defected and that Lucifer is of the Cherubim.

I have also read that while Michael, Gabriel and Raphael are referred to as archangels they are actually of a much higher order.

Note Tobit 12:15

15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."

I haven’t studied enough about angels to be sure, but I think that the seven are the Cherubim. [Don’t bet more that $.10 on that.]

 

[Qoeleth]

The other day I was flipping through the channels and I stumbled across I believe was a fundamentalist preacher. Anyway he stated Lucifer was an archangel? From what I have heard and understood many scholars place him with the ranks of the Cherubim? Some even with the Serpahim rank? I believe Luicfer belonged within the ranks of the Seraphim. It is only my opinion,not a celestial fact.

Interestingly, the idea that Satan is a fallen angel of high rank was regarded as a Cathar heresy as late as the 13th Century, as one of the Inquisition texts shows:
They (the Cathars) also say and teach that this devil [Satan], puffed up by the deception which he had practised in heaven, presumed to ascend into heaven with his cohorts and there joined battle with the archangel Michael and was defeated and driven out. They think that the verse Apocalypse 12:7, “And there was a great battle in heaven. Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought with his angels” is to be interpreted with reference to this battle.

According to the current Catholic mythology (which seems to have been taken from the Cathars) he was second in rank only to God, hence his arrogance.

It might be worthwhile checking out the Book of Enoch as well.

 

[Nicea325]

I have read that he is of the Seraphim. I have also read that none of the Seraphim defected and that Lucifer is of the Cherubim.

I have also read that while Michael, Gabriel and Raphael are referred to as archangels they are actually of a much higher order.

Note Tobit 12:15 I haven’t studied enough about angels to be sure, but I think that the seven are the Cherubim. [Don’t bet more that $.10 on that.]

Indeed, I too have read similar comments,including the archangels you mentioned.

 

[Nicea325]

Interestingly, the idea that Satan is a fallen angel of high rank was regarded as a Cathar heresy as late as the 13th Century, as one of the Inquisition texts shows:
They (the Cathars) also say and teach that this devil [Satan], puffed up by the deception which he had practised in heaven, presumed to ascend into heaven with his cohorts and there joined battle with the archangel Michael and was defeated and driven out. They think that the verse Apocalypse 12:7, “And there was a great battle in heaven. Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought with his angels” is to be interpreted with reference to this battle.

According to the current Catholic mythology (which seems to have been taken from the Cathars) he was second in rank only to God, hence his arrogance.

It might be worthwhile checking out the Book of Enoch as well.

Thanks!

 

[Nicea325]

Interestingly, the idea that Satan is a fallen angel of high rank was regarded as a Cathar heresy as late as the 13th Century, as one of the Inquisition texts shows:
They (the Cathars) also say and teach that this devil [Satan], puffed up by the deception which he had practised in heaven, presumed to ascend into heaven with his cohorts and there joined battle with the archangel Michael and was defeated and driven out. They think that the verse Apocalypse 12:7, “And there was a great battle in heaven. Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought with his angels” is to be interpreted with reference to this battle.

According to the current Catholic mythology (which seems to have been taken from the Cathars) he was second in rank only to God, hence his arrogance.

It might be worthwhile checking out the Book of Enoch as well.

Enoch-eh?

 

[SonCatcher]

Interestingly, the idea that Satan is a fallen angel of high rank was regarded as a Cathar heresy as late as the 13th Century, as one of the Inquisition texts shows:
They (the Cathars) also say and teach that this devil [Satan], puffed up by the deception which he had practised in heaven, presumed to ascend into heaven with his cohorts and there joined battle with the archangel Michael and was defeated and driven out. They think that the verse Apocalypse 12:7, “And there was a great battle in heaven. Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought with his angels” is to be interpreted with reference to this battle.

According to the current Catholic mythology (which seems to have been taken from the Cathars) he was second in rank only to God, hence his arrogance.

It might be worthwhile checking out the Book of Enoch as well.

Alternatively, it could have been a little-known supposition that became better known due to the Cathars. At any rate, Satan’s old rank is largely unimportant since his greatest strikes are through cunning deceit, not pure strength, and that he is easily defeated by God’s strength, which even St. Michael called upon.