Luke 1:28 Why no "Hail Mary full of grace" translation?

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Hello!

The only time I have ever seen the Bible say “Hail, Mary full of grace” is in my mom’s, grandma’s old Catholic Bible. These days all I see is “hail favored one”—even in the NAB. Why is this? “Hail Mary full of grace” explains why Our Lady is free from original sin, among other things; it’s pretty important to have that translation you would think, right? I mean, when praying the Rosary we don’t pray the Hail Mary as “Hail favored one, the Lord is with thee. . .” 🤷

I know the original Greek (or is it Hebrew?) word has two meanings, or maybe more?
Maybe someone more blessed than I may explain.

Thank you, God bless! 🙂
 
Wikipedia states that:
The word κεχαριτωμένη, (kecharitōménē), here translated as “full of grace,” admits of various translations. Grammatically, the word is the feminine present perfect passive voice participle [whew!] of the verb χαριτόω, charitóō, which means “to show, or bestow with, grace” and, in the passive voice, “to have grace shown, or bestowed upon, one.”
(see the article for the lexicon upon which this claim is based.)

Most Bible texts translate this phrase something like “highly favored.” However, the word ἐχαρίτωσεν (with the exact same Greek root) is used in Ephesians 1:6:
to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves [NIV]
All but one of the 21 different translations at BibleHub.com translate this as “grace” (not “favor”). The one dissenting translation (GOD’S WORD translation, whatever that is) chooses “kindness.”
 
I don’t know your age, but it looks like you and I share some common thoughts, as I hate it when the words I am familiar with get changed too. I think “Hail Mary full of Grace…” says it better too. Here’s another example. Sometimes, in some parishes I have attended, the following is quoted: “Glory to God in the highest, and peace and good will to men on earth.” All my life, I heard it as “Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth to men OF good will.” I think you would agree that the two mean very different things. One is a sort of blanket blessing. The other implies that the blessing is extended to men of a particular heart or mindset. I like #2! Anyway, I don’t actually know how the ancient manuscripts were translated—or if in some cases the “new way” is a correction of something that was mis-translated initially. I always thought that I felt this way because I’m in my 60’s and getting older! LOL!🤷
 
One of the interesting things about the structure of Luke 1:28 is that the Greek does not contain the name “Mary.” Therefore the Greek word kecharitomene (“favored one” or “full of grace”) is the object of the angel Gabriel’s salutation. Therefore, the salutation literally says: “Hail, full of grace” or “Hail, favored one.”

In either case it **does not **say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.”
 
What a wonderful question. I think it comes down to we are currently in a fallen state, (due to the fall of adam and Eve) and the fact that Satan HATES Mary. So…basically Satan does anything and everything he can (knowing he will be eventually crushed by Mary (Genesis 3:15) another verse Satan has quietly changed…so He does anything he can to defame or devalue Mary, the Mother of God.

Satan hates Mary so much, because not only does he have to Glorify God the Father (which he refuses to do) he has to glorify his Divine Son, Jesus Christ he also has to Glorify Mary (because God made her above even Angels as “Queen of Heaven”…Satan does not like that a human, (spirit and body) was elevated above him…so he makes information from the Bible, like direct messages from God himself (Luke 1:28) very vague, by saying “Highly favored” -----“highly favored” and “full of grace” are completely different ideas if you ask me. The true translation of “full of grace” means exactly that. Mary was FULL OF GRACE…you can’t be FULL and have room for Sin…

But thanks to that Evil Satan, he confuses everyone, and especially any information that might glorify Mary in any way…
 
One of the interesting things about the structure of Luke 1:28 is that the Greek does not contain the name “Mary.” Therefore the Greek word kecharitomene (“favored one” or “full of grace”) is the object of the angel Gabriel’s salutation. Therefore, the salutation literally says: “Hail, full of grace” or “Hail, favored one.”

In either case it **does not **say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.”
Ding, ding, ding.

you’re close.

As the Catechism says, “hail” or “rejoice”

so, **Rejoice! Full of Grace! ** The LORD is with you.

As Tim Staples points out in his book
amazon.com/Behold-Your-Mother-Historical-Doctrines/dp/1938983807/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456892299&sr=8-1&keywords=tim+staples

the greeting is followed by the remark that Mary is puzzled at the angel’s greeting. He has CHANGED HER NAME! He has addressed her as “Full of Grace” or “Highly Favored One”

From memory, maybe the verse says that she wondered what sort of greeting that was.

We have to distinguish the Biblical verse from the common prayer. They are different, and that’s that. Staples has studied to become an apologist, and he has particularly researched this verse. He seems to make a lot of sense.

I usually pray the rosary by listening to a recording by Fr. John Riccardo, with his meditations. But, when I pray the rosary myself, I use the Biblical

"REJOICE!
FULL OF GRACE!
THE LORD IS WITH THEE!
BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN!
AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB!
JESUS"


What you usually hear in church is

HailMaryfullofgracethelordiswiththeeblessedartthouamongwomenandblessedisthefruitofthywombJesus.
 
RSV Second Catholic Edition, Ignatius Press is “full of grace” One of my preferred bibles.

Not meaning to divert the thread but prefer “full of grace”. She is without sin, so would have to be “full” of grace.
 
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sirach2v4:
He has CHANGED HER NAME! He has addressed her as “Full of Grace” or “Highly Favored One”
In the former her name is changed to one specific attribute which she possesses in its fullness. Something that the Archangel recognizes by this manner of addressing his and our queen. While the latter is a diluted generic statement of flattery and no longer a name.
 
In the former her name is changed to one specific attribute which she possesses in its fullness. Something that the Archangel recognizes by this manner of addressing his and our queen. While the latter is a diluted generic statement of flattery and no longer a name.
As a good orthodox Anglican (no irony intended!), I think you’re pretty much right about ‘highly favoured one’ not capturing the intensity of the single word being translated. ‘Full of grace’ does achieve that. My reservation though is that the latter can easily be read very anachronistically, as suggesting a Latin/early scholastic theology of grace as a kind of substance poured into human beings. I don’t think that’s necessarily untrue (trivia: the Prayer Book uses the prayer ending the Angelus as the collect for the Annunciation, “Pour forth, we beseech thee, thy grace into our hearts…”), but if we’re trying to be as faithful as possible to the bare meaning of the Greek text it’s a little bit too eisegetical.

For what it’s worth, though, in translating the Vulgate and in liturgical use, “full of grace” is probably as good a translation as we’ll get.
 
It seems a most unique title for a most unique woman! I prefer Full of Grace, as in the RSV-CE.
 
Satan does not like that a human, (spirit and body) was elevated above him…so he makes information from the Bible, like direct messages from God himself (Luke 1:28) very vague, by saying “Highly favored”
Umm… wait a minute. You’re claiming that Satan has altered Scripture? :eek:

No, sir … as Christians, we make the claim that the Bible teaches what it teaches inerrantly. Satan has not ‘gotten to’ Scriptural translators in order to change the translation to ‘highly favored one.’ :rolleyes:
The true translation of “full of grace” means exactly that. Mary was FULL OF GRACE…
Actually, the Latin translation ‘plena gratia’ (“full of grace”) isn’t an exact translation of ‘kecharitomene’. That’s because it’s very difficult to translate a participle that means “she who has been given the gift of grace in the past and this grace continues in her to this day and is expected to continue lasting into the future”! So, “full of grace” is close enough… 😉
 
The Revised Douay Rheims that I bought on Amazon uses “full of grace.” It seems to be an updated translation with traditional language. Unfortunately, it’s only available as a Kindle edition.
 
I am like you. I would prefer a translation of Scripture that reads uniformly in line with our prayer life, as the Lectionary reads in Mass, and that reflects our theology.

That being said, the way it is rendered in the New American Bible and other translations is also correct. The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives us a definition of God’s grace at section 1996: “Grace is favor.”

In others words “grace” and “favor” are synonyms. According to the Catechism, they mean exactly the same thing. Being that the Catechism is a large compendium, it is not a wonder that more Catholics are totally unaware of this fact of our religion. It rarely gets discussed. So Catholics unfamiliar with this often get confused when they read the NAB.

But if they are synonyms, why the difference at all? The NAB is following Greek language structure. Our prayers and the Liturgy reflect the Latin translation of the Greek.

The translation of the New Testament in the NAB is directly from the Greek, which came first before the Latin rendition. The word in the Greek text is problematic too. The Infancy Narrative in Luke is not written in Koine (Common) Greek like the rest of the New Testament. It is written in Septuagint Greek, an archaic Jewish form, and the word for “full of grace” or “highly favored” is unique. It doesn’t occur in any other place in the Bible or any non-Biblical Greek text. The Latin helps explain how the Church has always understood it theologically, but the Greek has always left Greek readers scratching their heads.

The word appears to be “most graced” or “favored highly” in the sense of “favor” being God’s sanctifying grace as defined in the CCC. Some linguists believe it is a translation of words heard by Mary in Aramaic, but what those exact words are can only be hypothesized.

As Catholics, we are used to hearing and saying “full of grace,” and we often say that this is due to the Latin rendition. The Latin word “plena” means “plump” as in “filled with,” like when someone eats a meal and they have eaten to satisfaction. In Latin the language allows a person to say that another is “filled” with a quality. But the Greek, even Septuagint Greek, does not allow for such a description in this instance. The word logic is different.

The rules of Greek speaking in this instance only allow for the description to be spoken of in degrees, such as “low” or “high.” You cannot always say that someone is “filled” with grace in Greek, because the rules of that language don’t always let you write or speak that way. But you can say that someone has God’s grace to the superlative degree. That’s what “highly favored” means. In Greek a person can have a high or low degree of grace, but the language doesn’t always allow you to say one is “filled” with it. (You can say that someone is “full of grace” in regular Koine Greek, such as at John 1.14, but that is a different dialect, different words, and a differently structured sentence altogether.)

According to directives from the Vatican, translations of the Bible are to be made directly from the original language. Since the expression is originally written in Greek, the NAB renders it as closely to the Greek as possible. The degree of grace or favor is “high” in Greek, so that is what we read from a translation of the Greek. When we read a rendition from the Latin text, grace or favor is spoken of as existing “inside” a person as one fills a glass, either full to the top or leaving the vessel empty. This is what we are used to hearing becuase our prayer life is based on the Latin prayers of our Tradition.

The good news is that the New Testament of the NAB is being revised to read as it does in the Lectionary. When released in 2025 (the projected date for release) the traditional rendering from the Latin will be reflected in the main text. However, the original Greek expression of “highly favored” will likely never disappear. Since that is what the inspired Greek literally says, you will likely find that reading delegated to the footnote in this new edition.
 
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AndreaDorrie:
That being said, the way it is rendered in the New American Bible and other translations is also correct. The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives us a definition of God’s grace at section 1996: “Grace is favor.”
As was stated earlier, being correct is not the same as being good.

Favor and grace are not used interchangeably in Church teaching. The Church always refers to “grace,” when speaking of grace, because it has a definite theological meaning, whereas “favor” is fuzzy and indefinite. We don’t sing about "Amazing favor, " or pray “pour forth we beseech you O God, your favor into our hearts” etc. etc. IOW, eschewing “grace” for “favor” has no justification in Catholic theology or prayer life. Count how many times the word “grace” is used in the Mass, or conversely we say “look with favor upon these gifts.” Are we praying that God give His Grace to our gifts? Or do we mean “favor” when we say favor?

The only thing that will be accomplished by avoiding the word grace is to dilute and negate the meaning of grace. When we say Our God is a gracious God, should we instead say our God is a favorable God?

The plain fact is: Grace and favor are NOT interchangeable in our English speaking Catholic religion.
 
AmbroseSJ,

The Catechism was not originally written in English either. it was written in Latin. With that in mind I pointed out that Holy Mother Church in the Catechism says the words are synonyms for one another, theologically speaking.

The information in the CCC at 1996 is not speaking about whether the words are interchanged in English or any other language for that matter. How people use words in English isn’t the issue.

I also began and ended my comment with expressing my own desire for a translation that represents our common Catholic usage, “full of grace,” and so wasn’t doing anything but explaining why it was technically correct. As you brought out, correct is not necessarily all that needs to be considered, but I was only intending to give a view of the Greek. I wasn’t endorsing the choice made in the current NAB.

Another reason one often uses the word “favor” instead of “grace” in Luke chapter 1 is becuase the root word for “full of grace” is actually CHARIS. In Luke 1.28 where Mary is called “highly favored/graced” the same root word occurs in 1.30 where the angel says Mary has “found favor” with God.

No one may sing songs about “amazing favor,” and I am with you on that, but equally no one really translates Luke 1.30 as “you have found grace with God.” We are used to hearing the verse translated as “you have found favor with God.” The same word for “favor” here is the same one in verse 28 for “highly favored/graced,” namely CHARIS. Translators are just trying to be consistent in rendering CHARIS as “favor,” because how would you argue that the word means “favor” in verse 30 but not in verse 28?

I agree that they are not interchangeable words in English, but I was thinking in line with the CCC that more than merely English has to be considered.
 
No one may sing songs about “amazing favor,” and I am with you on that, but equally no one really translates Luke 1.30 as “you have found grace with God.” We are used to hearing the verse translated as “you have found favor with God.” The same word for “favor” here is the same one in verse 28 for “highly favored/graced,” namely CHARIS. Translators are just trying to be consistent in rendering CHARIS as “favor,” because how would you argue that the word means “favor” in verse 30 but not in verse 28?
Right you are. However, verse 30 was indeed translated grace in the now 400 year old Douay/Rheims translation of the Vulgate: “Do not be afraid Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.” This is also in the Confraternity Edition of the New Testament. Yet all of the earlier versions of the D/R also retained “grace” in verse 30. Although Knox uses grace in v. 28, but favor in verse 30. Apparently it is done. 😉
 
And I agree that if one is going to translate from the Latin, which is the Bible you are speaking about, one can definitely do that. The Latin word in verse 30 is GRATIUM, a form of GRATIA.

But the question from the OP was about current Bibles, not 400 year-old Bibles (besides being still good, in my humble opinion). Current Bibles are usually translated from the original languages, not Latin. And in Luke 1, the Greek word CHARIS appears there, not the Latin GRATIUM.

I, personally, would rather see our current translations retain the more traditional wording. I am all for “full of grace” and even for “you have found grace with God.” Let me make that clear. Read this over and over again becuase I feel you are not getting what I am saying.

I am only explaining how the Greek translation process works, explaining “why” something is done.

I am not one of those two-dimensional posters who only expresses views that I agree with. Sometimes a question might be asked that I know the answer to. Giving the answer does not mean I agree with the answer. My personal opinion on data doesn’t change the data. I might even hate the facts I might report. But if that’s what they are, I try to be impartial in reporting them.

Unfortunately I have discovered again and again that some people think that if you mention something that you support it. Mentioning how something is should never be considered an endorsement, at least as far as my posts concern.

Despite my personal preferences regarding the issue (which is actually in line with AmbroseSJ’s argument), I neither endorse nor condemn the way it appears in the NAB. It is a linguistically sound choice in rendering directly from the Greek, and if it wasn’t the Holy See would,not have allowed the NAB text of Luke to appear on the Vatican’s website as the English Bible translation when one searches for Scripture. Though I personally don’t consider it preferable to my liking, I cannot lie and say it is wrong or incorrect. My personal preferences are not facts, nor are anyone else’s preferences.

I have only been explaining why something is done. If you think it is wrong or incorrect, you need to take it to the Holy See. I have no disagreement with you on the preference however.
 
The translation of the New Testament in the NAB is directly from the Greek, which came first before the Latin rendition. The word in the Greek text is problematic too. The Infancy Narrative in Luke is not written in Koine (Common) Greek like the rest of the New Testament. It is written in Septuagint Greek, an archaic Jewish form
Close, but not quite right, don’t you think?

It’s more accurate to admit that the text of Luke shows that the author was quite skilled as a writer – a variety of styles shows up in this Gospel. Luke Johnson claims that the infancy narrative, in particular, takes on a Semitic style. (Perhaps that’s why you’re claiming that it’s written in “Septuagint Greek”?) Other passages take on other styles – but the language of Luke is primarily Koine, with stylistic variants.

What about your assertion that there’s a “Septuagint Greek” that is distinct from Koine? That, too, is a problematic assertion. Scholars exist who would have claimed that, but the text of the Septuagint really is the common (i.e., Koine) Greek. Of course, the Septuagint translates from the Hebrew, so there are Hebraisms found in its pages, but to claim that it’s a distinct form of Greek would be like claiming that I’m writing in a Franco-English when I use expressions like cause celebre and voila in my writing! 😉
, and the word for “full of grace” or “highly favored” is unique. It doesn’t occur in any other place in the Bible or any non-Biblical Greek text.
No, that’s not quite right, either. In this particular inflected form – kecharitomene – this is the sole place it occurs, but it shows up elsewhere. (For instance, see Ephesians 1:6, where it shows up as a pure verb.)
(You can say that someone is “full of grace” in regular Koine Greek, such as at John 1.14, but that is a different dialect, different words, and a differently structured sentence altogether.)
Different style of writing? Sure – after all, John’s Greek is… interesting. Different dialect, though? Really?!? :rolleyes:
However, the original Greek expression of “highly favored” will likely never disappear.
That depends on the make-up of the editorial board, wouldn’t you say?
Since that is what one particular translation of the inspired Greek literally says
There. Fixed that for ya… 😉
 
Gorgias,

I am of Jewish heritage. Though Roman Catholic, I read Greek and speak and pray in Hebrew like many of my relatives do. There is a stark difference between the LXX Greek and the vernacular Greek of the first century. I don’t know how I can prove that to you here, but being that I speak three Jewish dialects and have a big investment in my own people’s history, I think I speak in agreement with both Jews and other linguist scholars on this point.

The words in Luke 1.28 and Ephesians 1.6 are not the same. In Luke the word is KECHARITOMENE, but in Ephesians the word is ESCHARITOSEN. They are similar, but not the same. Many Catholics have theorized that the word in Luke was special invented due to the unique circumstances regarding Mary.

As to correcting things for me, you did nothing of the sort but made me regret coming back on CAF. After being absent due to a paralyzing neurological disease, I was looking forward to spending some of my recovery time here among my fellow Catholics.

What a welcome this has been… More like an attack. If acting like you and AmbroseSJ is what CAF has become and what being Catholic is today, then I am saddened.

I have worked as a director for my diocese, assisted in RCIA, worked with diocesan cultural programs and public relations as well as a part-time employee of my parish office for years. How horrible you have made me feel. It is like my words in my posts are meant to be stripped apart by vultures who are happy to search for what ey view are mistakes and then smile happily when they find one.

I don’t want to become like any of you or have anything in common with people who insist on being this way. I should have remained paralyzed and unable to come on line here. At least my heart would have been spared this negative experience!
 
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