C
CatholicMan1
Guest
Why does the RSVCE 1 and 2 use “since I have no husband” in this translation? It doesn’t seem accurate, but EWTN and many scholars like the RSVCE.
- Status
A
adamhovey1988
Guest
It is inaccurate, Douay Rheims says “Since I know not man”? According to the notes on the Ignatis Study Bible, which uses the 2nd edition of the RSV, it says the Greek literally reads “I do not know man”. The RSVCE is a good translation, but none are perfect.
Last edited:
W
Wesrock
Guest
ἐπεὶ ἄνδρα οὐ γινώσκω;
I am not a koine expert, but
ἐπεὶ - since
ἄνδρα - man/husband
οὐ - not
γινώσκω - know (seems genitive case (it’s been a long time), so possessive, knowledge of
RSV seems more literal. I don’t see the word virgin.
I am not a koine expert, but
ἐπεὶ - since
ἄνδρα - man/husband
οὐ - not
γινώσκω - know (seems genitive case (it’s been a long time), so possessive, knowledge of
RSV seems more literal. I don’t see the word virgin.
It’s not one of the better renderings of the RSV, although it does capture the meaning of the Greek. I personally find it an irritant, although the RSV-CE remains my go-to Bible.
Scholars (and most good Bible readers) do not litmus-test translations. They recognize all translations have their strengths and weaknesses, and this verse is one of the RSV’s weaknesses. Catholic scholars like the RSV because it’s a good translation overall.
The Douay-Rheims has a better rendering. That does not mean I will be buying a Douay-Rheims any time soon.
W
Wesrock
Guest
“I know not man/husband” is my more literal reading. Though I’m very far from literate in koine.
Last edited:
“know” (ginwkw) is also a Semitic euphemism for sexual intercourse.
The RSV is actually more dynamic here. “I do not know man” or “I do not know a husband” is the more literal rendering. It can also be dynamically translated into “I am a virgin.” The RSV “I have no husband” is also acceptable, but not very factually accurate. According to the practice of the time, betrothal was already a real marriage, an infidelity at this stage was subject to the death penalty. They just hadn’t begun living in the same house.
Last edited:
W
Wesrock
Guest
Yes. It is a common idiom in the Bible.Wesrock:
“know” (ginwkw) is also a Semitic euphemism for sexual intercourse.
The RSV is actually more dynamic here. “I do not know man” or “I do not know a husband” is the more literal rendering. It can also be dynamically translated into “I am a virgin.”
H
Hodos
Guest
It isn’t inaccurate, the phrase to know a man is a colloquialism for sexual intercourse or marriage. They have just chosen to communicate the passage you highlighted in a thought for thought rather than word for word translation at this point. It actually renders increased clarity for those who are not familiar with that idiom.
Last edited:
D
dscath
Guest
It’s accurate, in the literal sense, but not literally…and we are taught to consider the literal sense when reading sacred scripture (don’t quote me on the exact paragraph, but its in the early 100s of the CCC).
When “since I have no husband” is used, if we put it in the literal sense (which includes the historical and cultural context at the time of the writing), it is accurate, because by cultural norms of the day, having “no husband” would have been clearly understood as having virginity, sense having sex before marriage was sinful, and not the norm.
I
Ignatius
Guest
porthos11, Sorry for the slightly off topic, but how do you capture the original post in your response? It seems to be more than a simple cut-n-paste. Thank you.
You would use the Quote feature, looks like a comic book bubble in the toolbar.
C
CatholicMan1
Guest
Thank you. Bargil Pixner has an excellent explanation for it in his book, Paths of the Messiah. He mentions about Mary taking a vow of virginity according to St. Augustine and St. Gregory of Nyssa. Also, Numbers 30:4-9 gives the instructions for the vow. Also, he mentions about a Dead Sea Scroll shedding new light on Mary’s situation (11QTemple 53:16-54:3).(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Last edited:
M
Margaret_Ann
Guest
In my senior year in college, my friends got me a Douay-Rheims Bible. My parents had the New American Bible (1970) and that’s what we still have in our parish.
J
JohnR77
Guest
Yes and Matthew’s Gospel confirms that they were already married
Matthew 1: 19
“Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately”
And it would be absurd to suggest they got married between these 2 events
John
I
Ignatius
Guest
Ah, thank youIgnatius:
You would use the Quote feature, looks like a comic book bubble in the toolbar.
T
TK421
Guest
I think they just preferred that over “know” whose meaning is sometimes lost on the contemporary reader.
Last edited:
A
adamhovey1988
Guest
*Ignatius, I forgot to edit it.
B
BartholomewB
Guest
Bargil Pixner’s book looks like a must-read. Thanks for the tip. I’ve put it on my list. Just a quick question, if you don’t mind, out of curiosity: What kind of work did Joseph do, exactly, according to Pixner?
Thanks.
Thanks.
- Status