Luke 1:42 - Blessed is the Fruit of your womb vs Blessed is the child you will bear

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My personal view is “Blessed is the fruit of your womb” seems much, MUCH more respectful. “Blessed is the child you will bear” rubs me the wrong way.

Am I being too sensitive?

MJ
 
I don’t think you are. The traditional phrasing is better.
 
Reepicheep said:
I don’t think you are. The traditional phrasing is better.
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Ah good. The thing is I agree it is better and traditional and once again I grown up with it taught in Catechism class decades ago.

That said, the Greek translation doesn’t use the noun child anyway, so although it is understood, Fruit has makes me want to take it as Holiness, rather than Child (which is nice and sweet) but Jesus is someone who Salvation depends on. :highprayer:

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
My personal view is “Blessed is the fruit of your womb” seems much, MUCH more respectful. “Blessed is the child you will bear” rubs me the wrong way.

Am I being too sensitive?

MJ
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I prefer “fruit” because it aligns Christ with the Tree of Life in Genesis, and the trees that bear fruit and healing in Ezekiel and Revelation.

However, to answer your question, only because I don’t find the twist in the translation necessarily lacking respect, I’d have to answer your question with a “yes”, For what its worth, and you asked for my opinion, I think you are being too sensitive.

Peace and all good!
 
“Fruit of your womb” is an agricultural reference.

Hebrew society was primarily agricultural and there are many agricultural references in Scripture. Men were viewed as the seed and women as the land. A man would plant his seed in a woman and the woman would bear fruit (children) like a fertile field.

Scripture speaks of Abraham’s seed and Jesus speaks of yielding fruit many times.

Context, context, context… always remember the context. These were Jewish farmers and fishermen. That’s the setting. Never forget that.

-Tim-
 
Neofight said:
I prefer “fruit” because it aligns Christ with the Tree of Life in Genesis, and the trees that bear fruit and healing in Ezekiel and Revelation.

However, to answer your question, only because I don’t find the twist in the translation necessarily lacking respect, I’d have to answer your question with a “yes”, For what its worth, and you asked for my opinion, I think you are being too sensitive.

Peace and all good!
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I have to agree. I can see how familiarity with a certain word or phrase contributes to preference. But I think the phrase “blessed is the child you will bear” is beautiful in itself, I don’t see why it would rub you wrong.

On a side note, I remember as a child trying to figure out what fruit had to do with babies, and that someone was mispronouncing “room”.
 
Neofight said:
I prefer “fruit” because it aligns Christ with the Tree of Life in Genesis, and the trees that bear fruit and healing in Ezekiel and Revelation.

However, to answer your question, only because I don’t find the twist in the translation necessarily lacking respect, I’d have to answer your question with a “yes”, For what its worth, and you asked for my opinion, I think you are being too sensitive.

Peace and all good!
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I agree too.
 
It is meant to be poetic, not raw.

I agree with others, there is more imagery in “fruit” than in “baby”. Fruit gives me the idea of the grape, where we get wine, which was the first miracle and actually becomes the blood of our Savior during Mass.

Not to take away from the reality of the infant, who was helpless, and totally in the hands of humanity and society.

I think that is why God invented colors to blend, so we didn’t just have a black and white world. It is more rich and textured than that.
 
εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξίν καὶ εὐλογημένος ὁ καρπὸς τῆς κοιλίας σου

Blessed art-thou among women and blessed the fruit of womb thy
 
Fruit versus Child …

I see there is much more meaning in the Fruit of the Womb then the Child born …

Let me explain …

The child is the person - yes a blessing - but the child born is also merely the potential of what they will do with their life … their fruits

Now the Fruit of the Womb includes the Child and all that the Child will do with their life - the potential fulfilled for good or ill …

Thus the Fruit of Mary’s womb is Jesus the child - the human - God Incarnate … but the Fruit is also the Christ - the Third Person of the Trinity - the One who will take on our sins, the elder brother who pays the price to redeem us from our slavery to sin, who will die for us, who overcomes death, and who brings Salvation to the World and more - so much more … that is the Fruit of Mary’s womb
 
It wasn’t meant to be poetic and has nothing to do with what we prefer.

Fruit of the womb was an agricultural reference. Israel was an agricultural society and women were viewed as the field or soil into which men planted their seed. The seed would germinate inside the woman until the woman bore fruit/children.

It was a reference to agriculture.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
It wasn’t meant to be poetic and has nothing to do with what we prefer.

Fruit of the womb was an agricultural reference. Israel was an agricultural society and women were viewed as the field or soil into which men planted their seed. The seed would germinate inside the woman until the woman bore fruit/children.

It was a reference to agriculture.

-Tim-
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I can say that this is a good point especially since it is better to immerse oneself into the culture of the time rather than to a modern literalism. 😦

MJ
 
Neofight said:
I prefer “fruit” because it aligns Christ with the Tree of Life in Genesis, and the trees that bear fruit and healing in Ezekiel and Revelation.

However, to answer your question, only because I don’t find the twist in the translation necessarily lacking respect, I’d have to answer your question with a “yes”, For what its worth, and you asked for my opinion, I think you are being too sensitive.

Peace and all good!
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I like to be sensitive. 😛

Lacking respect was unlikely the intention for changing the wordings to a more literal one, but I get sensitive IF the idea of modernizing the words was intended to oppose the deposit of Faith. 🤷

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I can say that this is a good point especially since it is better to immerse oneself into the culture of the time rather than to a modern literalism. 😦

MJ
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That’s exactly the point and exactly how Catholics are taught to understand scripture.

The first sense of scripture is the literal sense - understanding what the words on the page actually say. The three spiritual senses flow from a proper understanding of the literal sense. To understand the literal sense one has to “immerse oneself into the culture” exactly as you say.

This is the teaching of the Church, not something I made up. Encyclicals and books have been written about the senses of scripture and the need to understand the literal sense first and fully. Catechism paragraphs 116 to 120 say exactly that.

“Modern literalism” is what gets people into trouble with the Scriptures. You are exactly 100% correct. You have to read the scriptures through the lenses of a first century Jew.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
That’s exactly the point and exactly how Catholics are taught to understand scripture.

The first sense of scripture is the literal sense - understanding what the words on the page actually say. The three spiritual senses flow from a proper understanding of the literal sense. To understand the literal sense one has to “immerse oneself into the culture” exactly as you say.

This is the teaching of the Church, not something I made up. Encyclicals and books have been written about the senses of scripture and the need to understand the literal sense first and fully. Catechism paragraphs 116 to 120 say exactly that.

“Modern literalism” is what gets people into trouble with the Scriptures. You are exactly 100% correct. You have to read the scriptures through the lenses of a first century Jew.

-Tim-
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Awesome!:highprayer:

God bless

MJ
 
“Fruit of the womb” shows up 5 or 6 times in the Bible. When a translation is changed, it becomes harder to see parallels and allusions, unless the other relevant passages are also changed.
 
D-R: 11 times. 5-6 I was trying to hit a safe average depending on translation.
 
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