Luke 12:4-5

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“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!”

Is Christ warning us to fear the Devil or God?
 
I suspect you can’t really say that the devil has the actual power to cast into hell. He can only tempt us. Maybe a similar passage in Matthew is helpful 10:28 where it talks about the ability to destroy body and soul. I think this would be God, and not the devil. I think it is a reassuring passage that there is nothing to fear as we go about our lives. It is only God whom we really must worry about, but that is taken care of. Anyhow, the devil is one of those pricipalities subjected to Christ, so no worries.
 
I know this can be find in the OT, but I cannot say where:

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.

Theodora
 
I think this refers to Matthew 25:31-46
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, . . . He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . . Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . .
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Is it God’s job to condemn man? John 3:16? I think that it is God that Jesus speaks of but I have read otherwise. Peter Kreeft “How ot Win the Culture War.”

thanks,
 
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Brown10985:
Is Christ warning us to fear the Devil or God?
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Christ in this passage is definitely warning us to fear the Devil!
 
definitely Christ is telling us to fear God… if you have read the old testament you know that the Jews of the old testament period had a great fear of God. I suppose that like today, the people of Jesus’ time also had a prevailing lack of fear of God.
 
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jaralenio:
Christ in this passage is definitely warning us to fear the Devil!
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haha… i guess two of us can read the same thing and come to an opposite conclusion. This is an interesting question. I have never really thought of it before, because I have always assumed Jesus meant God.
 
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madavis:
haha… i guess two of us can read the same thing and come to an opposite conclusion. This is an interesting question. I have never really thought of it before, because I have always assumed Jesus meant God.
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I’m learning my faith like everyone else and I don’t proclaim to be a scholar or theologian but in looking at this passage closely I see a couple of things:


  1. *](verse 4) God tells us in this passage that being followers of him we will suffer persecution but he reminds us that there is someone who can hurt us much more (spiritually) and that being Satan.
    *]"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him! " God does not kill or cast anyone into hell because that would be a contradiction to his nature. God is pure love and He desire’s all men to be one with Him.
    *]The “Whom to Fear” is a person and this person whom “kill’s” has to be Satan. He hates God and everyone and everything that has to do with God. Jesus calls him a murderer from the beginning John 8:44.

    The fear of losing our souls to the devil is what Christ is saying. Yes have fear of the Lord, in offending him in sin and not being obedient yes but he warn’s us fear him who has killed.
 
This is one of those sticky situations we come up in the Gospels. Generally, I like a translation which reads smoothly and is in contemporary language, more or less. But in a situation like this it would be well to have a translation at hand which sticks as literally as possible to the Greek. Perhaps a rendering of this sort would throw some light on the question of the passage being considered.
 
luke 12:1 warns of hypocrisy and 2 and 3 warn that everything you said in secret will be made known, which makes me think of judgement day and God. A warning at this point to not fear men, but God makes sense, for example, if someone were to tell a lie to please the men right here and now, but it would be revealed at judgement day. God is directly mentioned in verse 6 when they talk about the sparrows.

Then in verse 8 it goes: 8 "And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God; 9 but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.

This even more looks like a warning about what will happen to you on judgement day. To me, Satan seems out of context.

I know it seems strange to think of God or Jesus as having the authority or power to cast into hell, but Jesus has the key of David to shut and no one will open and the keys of Death and Hades and on judgment day those judged poorly are thrown into the lake of fire. The devil is not doing the throwing, as he has already been disposed of by this point. (this stuff is from the book of revelation). I’m not saying God throws people in hell, but you get that type of language, and it isn’t satan doing it. Maybe it is the angels or it is a figure of speech.
 
In praying and doing research on this passage I conclude that I may be mistaken to its meaning. I attest that the passage refers to the “Holy fear of the Lord”. Yes the devil may attempt to lead us to sin and away from God and while He will be a minister of torture of the souls in hell, he himself does not have the power to kill the soul.
 
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Pug:
Theodora,

You maybe think of proverbs 9:10 or 1:7.
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Thank you, Pug. I know remember where I got it from. It was on a poster that I had pinned up on the wall at the office. It had the stately redwoods and underneath was the Proverbs quotation.

Theodora
 
this is from revelation:

10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

*The Dead Are Judged *

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

so it’s definitely not satan. it might be an angel, but i think the passage by our Savior was referring to God.
 
Brown10985 said:
“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!”

Is Christ warning us to fear the Devil or God?
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I think that Christ is no trying to warn us of either God or the devil, but rather the person that we would become when we actually killed a person and be cast down into hell upon our death.

What do you think about that idea?
 
When you stand before Our Lord Jesus Christ on judgement day you will either be judged into the Kingdom of God or cast into hell according to His judgement. One must fear not doing as Jesus teaches you to do in your life on earth.

WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All

NAB REV 2:22

"I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves." NAB REV 22:12
**“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.” **

**NAB MAT 5:20 **

I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven . "You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

NAB MAT 7:13

How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

NAB JOH 5:27

“The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Brown10985 said:
“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!”

Is Christ warning us to fear the Devil or God?
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God. 🙂​

 
In the passages that proceed verses 4 and 5 the subject is hypocrisy and that deeds done in secret will be exposed. This would lead me to think that the person to fear is ourselves, more particularly our sinful actions which kills our spirit. We cast ourselves into hell by embracing our “secret” sins and rejecting Jesus.

We should fear our sinfulness in the sense that our sinfulness should frighten and alarm us. If we drop a guard against our sinful selves we kill our divine image.

The passages following verses 4 and 5 warn us not to deny Jesus and outlines what will happen if we do.

I agree that we should be in awe of Jesus and revere Jesus. This is the fear of the Lord that scripture speaks about. Jesus is the divine judge whom we should not deny. But it is not Jesus who kills. Jesus is the source of everlasting life.

Jesus is warning each of us about ourselves. It is each one of us who is capable of and willing to kill. And in the end it will be each one of us who acknowledges Jesus or denies Jesus casting himself into hell.
 
Brown10985 said:
“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!”

Is Christ warning us to fear the Devil or God?
Click to expand...

Bringing back a thread from the dead!

Dr. Peter Kreeft says in one of his talks “How to Win the Culture War” that Jesus is warning us of the Devil.
 
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