Luke 16:19-31 : Concern for others while in hell?

[cynic]

I keep hearing that hell is a place where the soul is stripped of all remaining good, that those in hell hate God and have chosen ‘self’’. Why is it then that the rich man feels concern for his brethren ; enough to ask Abraham to send Lazurus to warn them? Or is it a parable? This has probably been aswered many times.

Thanks

 

[WetCatechumen]

Let’s discuss terms.

Hades is the abode of the dead, righteous and unrighteous. The righteous dead have been freed from the rule of death and now dwell in the presence of God thanks to the Christ descending to Hades, taking the keys, and opening its Gates…

The Lake of Fire is the place of eternal torment where the unrighteous are consigned after the Second Coming of the Christ.

Psalm 139 says that God is there, even when we descend to Sheol (Hebrew for Hades).

Those who die in God’s favor yet still not cleansed from their sin are purged from their sin in Hades (my theologoumenon - Purgatory is not dogmatically located in Hades). Hence, while it is possible for those ultimately justified to still retain sin and evil after death, those who are ultimately condemned may still retain some grace and virtue after death, at least in Hades.

Furthermore, we don’t know the final fate of the rich man. It is possible that he was merely paying his debts and through the intercessions of Lazarus he may be freed from his sin and cross the chasm into rest with Abraham, and ultimately into the Beatific Vision.

I don’t know enough about the unrighteous dead being stripped of all remaining good. I suspect, like Marc Antony said, that when men die, the good they do is interred with them (although I mean it in a different sense). We will be judged according to our works. The most wicked of the damned will suffer more torment than the least wicked, although both are damned. It is possible that this man’s compassion for his brethren would lessen his punishment. I don’t see why it would be stripped of him at death, or why he could not learn in in death, as most of us will change radically upon purgation.

I think it is an error to say that the damned lose all good. Patristic sources, papal encyclicals, or scripture to show otherwise might change my opinion.

However, if the dead are stripped of their good, it is possible that the rich man was paying his temporal debts in Purgatory, and would ultimately be able to cross the chasm. The other option is that the damned may still retain some of the good they had in life, or learn compassion in death.

 

[LilyM]

Another way to look at it is that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable - a fictional story told to make a moral point. It may be that it is not intended to be an entirely 100%-accurate-in-every-respect lifelike portrayal of the events it portrays.

It may be that we are meant to take the main points made by the story - including the point that it is not possible, once in Hell, either to escape or to do good for others who remain on earth - without assuming that every detail is accurate.

 

[cheeto1]

I too have been moved by this story to ask the question “Is there love in hell”?
The consensus was no, because God is love, and in hell, God is removed from you.
I’m still not satisfied, and it just gave me to wonder, would God ever send a
saviour to hell? We ourselves were eternally seperated from God until Jesus was
sent…

 

[Nita]

The point you raise is one reason I have heard for interpreting Hades (in this passage) as referring to purgatory, and not hell.
Verse 26 might seem to contradict the purgatory interpretation. (Vs 26 *And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ *
However, IMO it’s possible it is just saying there is no passing back and forth between heaven and purgatory by either of the parties; that is, by those who must still remain in purgatory yet, or by those in heaven who care about those in purgatory.

 

[Mykol]

I too have been moved by this story to ask the question “Is there love in hell”?
The consensus was no, because God is love, and in hell, God is removed from you.
I’m still not satisfied, and it just gave me to wonder, would God ever send a
saviour to hell? We ourselves were eternally seperated from God until Jesus was
sent…

I’ve often wondered this exact same thing. God possesses infinite mercy, goodness, and compassion. This God Who created and governs the vastness of the universe that we cannot even begin to comprehend chose to incarnate as a human, and to suffer horrible torture and death at the hands of creatures that are less than gnats in comparison to Him, for the sole purpose of redeeming said creatures from a fate they brought on themselves out of disobedience. He really does possess an incomprehensible desire that for the salvation of all mankind, and clearly is willing to go to any lengths to obtain it. I think we all will ultimately be stunned and amazed at the goodness of God in ways we can’t even imagine right now.

In the meantime, all we can do is keep praising this incredibly beneficent and incomprehensible God by persevering in the faith and in good works here on earth, as He alone is clearly worthy of such praise and worship, so that our prayers may join those of the angels and saints in Heaven praising the majesty and splendor of our God in all creation.

 

[LilyM]

I too have been moved by this story to ask the question “Is there love in hell”?
The consensus was no, because God is love, and in hell, God is removed from you.
I’m still not satisfied, and it just gave me to wonder, would God ever send a
saviour to hell? We ourselves were eternally seperated from God until Jesus was
sent…

God is perfectly loving, but also perfectly just.

The people in hell were humans just as we are. Jesus was sent to try to heal their eternal separation just as He was ours. And having been sent once, He was and is more than enough saviour for all of us, should we accept His offer of salvation. More than enough for those in Heaven, Purgatory, Earth and Hell.

There is no necessity of a second visit from the saviour, or a second bite of the cherry when it comes to salvation. We all have ample chances, and have been given every bit of the grace and help that we need, and much more than we deserve, during our lives.

Those who are in Hell rejected Him, died in that eternal state of rejection (since once we die we are outside time there is no changing our minds or our hearts) and so merit Hell. So will we if we die in an attitude of rejection of Him.

Do you think they or we are incapable of rejecting Him? Then you don’t know the human soul. Do you think they would change their minds if a saviour did visit them in Hell? Again, you don’t know the human soul - or what awaits it in eternity.

Jesus does know, and put it appropriately to the rich man who was in Hell - ‘they would not change their minds EVEN IF ONE CAME TO THEM WHO WAS RISEN FROM THE DEAD’. Well, one did come, and His coming again, trying again to save us all, wouldn’t change a thing for any of us.