Luke 20:27-28 (RNAB)

[Manfred]

Passages such as this one make me wonder just exactly how the US bishops got the RNAB approved by the Vatican for Lectionary use:

Luke 20:27 Some Sadducees, those who deny that there is a resurrection, came forward and put this question to him,
Luke 20:28 saying, "Teacher, Moses wrote for us, ‘If someone’s brother dies leaving a wife but no child, his brother must take the wife and raise up descendants for his brother.’

What’s bothering me here? The use of the word “someone” instead of “a man’s”. Unlike the translators of the New Jerusalem Bible, the editors of the RNAB chose to incorporate inclusive language at any cost. A pox (not pax) on them for this.

 

[Fidelis]

Some comparisons:

New American Standard Bible
and they questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies, having a wife, and he is childless, his brother should marry the wife and raise up children to his brother.

God’s Word Translation
"Teacher, Moses wrote for us, ‘If a married man dies and has no children, his brother should marry his widow and have children for his brother.’

King James Bible
Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man’s brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

American Standard Version
and they asked him, saying, Teacher, Moses wrote unto us, that if a man’s brother die, having a wife, and he be childless, his brother should take the wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Bible in Basic English
Master, Moses said that if a man’s brother comes to his end, having a wife, but no children, his brother is to take the wife, and get a family for his brother.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Saying: Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man’s brother die, having a wife, and he leave no children, that his brother should take her to wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Darby Bible Translation
demanded of him saying, Teacher, Moses wrote to us, If any one’s brother, who has a wife, die, and he die childless, his brother shall take the wife and raise up seed to his brother.

English Revised Version
saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, that if a man’s brother die, having a wife, and he be childless, his brother should take the wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Tyndale New Testament
saying: Master Moses wrote unto us, if any man’s brother die having a wife, And the same die without issue: that then his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Weymouth New Testament
"Rabbi, Moses made it a law for us that if a man’s brother should die, leaving a wife but no children, the man shall marry the widow and raise up a family for his brother.

Webster’s Bible Translation
Saying, Master, Moses wrote to us, If any man’s brother should die, having a wife, and he should die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed to his brother.

World English Bible
They asked him, "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies having a wife, and he is childless, his brother should take the wife, and raise up children for his brother.

Young’s Literal Translation
saying, 'Teacher, Moses wrote to us, If any one’s brother may die, having a wife, and he may die childless – that his brother may take the wife, and may raise up seed to his brother.

 

[lak611]

The Message
Luk 20:28 "Teacher, Moses wrote us that if a man dies and leaves a wife but no child, his brother is obligated to take the widow to wife and get her with child.

English Standard Version
Luk 20:28 and they asked him a question, saying, "Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies, having a wife but no children, the man must take the widow and raise up offspring for his brother.

New King James Version
Luk 20:28 saying: "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, having a wife, and he dies without children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother.

New International Version
Luk 20:28 “Teacher,” they said, "Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Luk 20:28 “Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother has a wife, and dies childless, his brother should take the wife and produce • offspring for his brother.

New Revised Standard Version
Luk 20:28 and asked him a question, "Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies, leaving a wife but no children, the man shall marry the widow and raise up children for his brother.

Even the Message gets this verse right! The RNAB is the only translation I have found that messes up this one.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .Luke 20:27 Some Sadducees, those who deny that there is a resurrection, came forward and put this question to him,
Luke 20:28 saying, "Teacher, Moses wrote for us, ‘If someone’s brother dies leaving a wife but no child, his brother must take the wife and raise up descendants for his brother.’ . . .

What if the someone is a woman and the deceased has no brother?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Even the Message gets this verse right!

You DONT hear that every day (if ever )!

Wow, I just hope the RNAB doesnt have anything worse (call no person father ).

 

[Manfred]

Wow, I just hope the RNAB doesnt have anything worse (call no person father ).

So, you’ve been an optimist for how long now?

 

[TOME]

I have to agree that the use of “someone” as oppose to “a man” could be misleading. I guess the translators of the RNAB would explain their use of the word “someone” is justified if understood in the context of the whole narrative and not isolated as a single sentence or phrase.

If that is their explanation, then I can see some justification - namely it has to be understood in light of the whole. And I also say that what is really important is to read the whole narrative and understand the message Christ was trying to get across to the Sadducees ,namely, the truth of the Resurrection, its meaning for us and what our faith response to this truth must be. Let’s not miss the forest for the trees.

 

[zografou]

Tome writes:
And I also say that what is really important is to read the whole narrative and understand the message Christ was trying to get across to the Sadducees ,namely, the truth of the Resurrection, its meaning for us and what our faith response to this truth must be. Let’s not miss the forest for the trees.

Bravo!

If I may expound on that…Let’s not miss the trees for the bark!

To my humble eyes, there is a greater lesson to be found… that we seem to have totally missed.

The Sadducees a prominent sect I might add, did not believe/denied:
The Ressurection of Souls, saying the soul died with the body the existence of Angels,

 

[zografou]

oops! previous post sent by accident before completed…
It is something we seem to miss, being so caught up by negative aspects concerning their failures, the following seems to be overlooked…
The Sadducees did not believe/denied:
The Ressurection of Souls, saying the soul died with the body; as well as, they did not believe/denied the existence of angels and spirits.
Also in opposition to the Pharisees, they limited their beliefs to that which was found only in sacred texts -refuting the oral tradition of their forefathers (sola scriptura) and in their own interpretations.

These are very great and significant differences, -huge! And yet, both together served in the Sanhedrin and more importantly…they were able to set aside their personal beliefs when it came to worship… One God, One Temple, One Alter!

Hmm…

 

[CeelosDeznos]

Actually this is not an instance of inserting inclusive language into the text. The reason for the use of “someone” is due to the translators of the NAB Revised New Testament being more exact than other translations.

The koine Greek word in this instance at Luke 20:28 is not the word “man” (Greek ANTHROPOS) a noun, but “anyone” (Greek TINOS), which is a pronoun. Literally the text reads: “Moses writes if anyone’s (TINOS) brother dies leaving a wife…”not “if any man’s (ANTHROPOS) brother dies.”

While it is acceptable to use the word “man” in this case when one is translating by a thought-for-thought (dynamic equivalence) principal, it is not allowed when one follows a strict word-for-word (formal equivalence) principal.

The NAB Revised New Testament uses a very strict formal equivalence or word-for-word translation format. While it does make some of the verses sound a bit choppy, awkward, and stiff (because it is preserving the “flavor” of the koine Greek language, it’s “way of reasoning,” it’s idiomatic patterns), this does allow for the reader to see when different words are used by the original writer, as far as the American English idiom will allow that is.

In this instance, Luke does not use the word “man” but “anyone” or “whom,” which in American English idiom can also be “someone,” as rendered in the NAB.

Inclusive language is not the use of an inclusive term. There are many inclusive terms in the original Greek text. Inclusive language is when a gender-specific term is *replaced *by a non-exclusive term that *does not represent *the original in any form. This is not the case here.

*–There is another word for “man” in koine Greek, namely TINOS, but it usually refers to the gender of a “man” or “human” being a literal male.

 

[JM3]

Actually this is not an instance of inserting inclusive language into the text. The reason for the use of “someone” is due to the translators of the NAB Revised New Testament being more exact than other translations.

The koine Greek word in this instance at Luke 20:28 is not the word “man” (Greek ANTHROPOS) a noun, but “anyone” (Greek TINOS), which is a pronoun. Literally the text reads: “Moses writes if anyone’s (TINOS) brother dies leaving a wife…”not “if any man’s (ANTHROPOS) brother dies.”

While it is acceptable to use the word “man” in this case when one is translating by a thought-for-thought (dynamic equivalence) principal, it is not allowed when one follows a strict word-for-word (formal equivalence) principal.

The NAB Revised New Testament uses a very strict formal equivalence or word-for-word translation format. While it does make some of the verses sound a bit choppy, awkward, and stiff (because it is preserving the “flavor” of the koine Greek language, it’s “way of reasoning,” it’s idiomatic patterns), this does allow for the reader to see when different words are used by the original writer, as far as the American English idiom will allow that is.

In this instance, Luke does not use the word “man” but “anyone” or “whom,” which in American English idiom can also be “someone,” as rendered in the NAB.

Inclusive language is not the use of an inclusive term. There are many inclusive terms in the original Greek text. Inclusive language is when a gender-specific term is *replaced *by a non-exclusive term that *does not represent *the original in any form. This is not the case here.

*–There is another word for “man” in koine Greek, namely TINOS, but it usually refers to the gender of a “man” or “human” being a literal male.

“The koine Greek word in this instance at Luke 20:28 is not the word “man” (Greek ANTHROPOS) a noun, but “anyone” (Greek TINOS), which is a pronoun”

“There is another word for “man” in koine Greek, namely TINOS, but it usually refers to the gender of a “man” or “human” being a literal male”

 

[CeelosDeznos]

My apologies, the second word should be ARREN.

***There is another word for “man” in koine Greek, namely ARREN, but it usually refers to the gender of a “man” or “human” being a literal male." ***

Thanks for pointing that out.