Luke 22 - A couple of questions

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Good evening Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,

I know it is an ancient item of discussion but I do not understand how evil was able to enter into Judas, allowing him to betray this man he had followed, listened to, seen work miracles many times and likely had been part of many deep discussions about Christ Jesus’ deeper thoughts including the role of His Church and other Divine subjects. I realize that we are mortals and therefore more than prone to failure, especially when some kind of perceived gain is involved but this is a totally different scenario in my mind. I simply cannot wrap my mind around what possible gain could have meant more to him than the Kingdom of Heaven and what comes after this life from the lips of the Son of Almighty God. In reading the Scripture, it is like he was a disciple one day and then betrayed who he had to know was the true Son of Almighty God. I simply cannot put any context together where anyone in his position would be able to do such a thing.

The second question I researched in the threads there as well before posting this but I am still having issues. I was raised as a Protestant, specifically in the Church of the Nazarene. In fact, a beloved uncle often preached there as a lay minister. I remember him speaking ill of Communion and some of the practices in the Catholic Church and he would get, not angry, but “energetic” about it to put it mildly. Yet, in the Scripture itself you read Christ Jesus’ words about the wine and the bread. Again, thinking back to talks with my uncle, with whom I was very close, I again do not understand why anyone could have a problem with something that is so plainly stated in the Scripture that even one such as myself can see the meaning and the beauty on my own. Why is this such an object of scorn and mockery?

If you accept the Scripture as the Word of God then how can you reject Holy Communion?

If these are too simple to answer or have been thoroughly answered in a thread I might have missed, please simply post links and I will be more than happy to do more reading and research. Ever since I took my first step towards becoming a member of the Church, reading Scripture has become my favorite thing to do, especially before I sleep because my mind works through the things I have read and the dreams, well, that is for some other time and place, but my mind goes into places where it is safe to dwell and good for me in so many ways and that is a true Blessing.

One final note: I really enjoy the quote (in my signature) from the Bishop and I hope it is something acceptable for use on this site? I have learned the hard way to ask here first before utilizing anything for further research as there are traps set out there and I do not want to fall into one.
 
The knowledge of divine truths and closeness to Almighty God, while preventing us from falling, doesn’t take away our free will or our concupiscence. Because of Judas’ closeness to Our Lord, his sin was more grave than it would have been for someone who hadn’t known Our Lord. Judas is comparable to anyone who commits a mortal sin because they trade Heaven and grace for transitory goods such as money.

You now know how it feels when Catholics are talking to Protestants about the errors in their religion. Protestants ignore parts of the Scripture, take some parts out, or blatantly misinterpret other parts all to support their heresies. This is what happens when men believe that they have it within their own power to interpret the Scriptures and make up their own beliefs.
 
Famous people like Jesus attract all sorts of people. Judas seems to have been more interested in material gain through his association with Jesus rather than anything else.
4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said, 5 “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it. (John 12:4-6)
 
With regard to Judas Iscariot, it should be remembered that the then current Jewish interpretation of Scripture, was to have a Messiah deliver Israel from their over-lording enemies, to have a leader like Moses who was going to deliver Israel to give them the freedom to be able to serve the Lord their God. If Judas Iscariot had witnessed the wonders which Jesus Christ had done, and if he had the understanding that the Messiah were to deliver them from oppression to serve the Lord their God, then he might very well take it upon himself to cause a Maccabeean style revolt, prompting Jesus Christ into that direction.

It didn’t happen.

With regard to your second point, there was a time when I was young and I was not aware of everything around me. I read John 6 and decided that Jesus Christ really meant what He said, otherwise there would be no efficacy. I was at a point where I saw no benefit in symbol.

But at the the same time, I thought to myself, I can’t take Jesus Christ at his word, because I do not want to start a new religion. It was eighteen years later that I found the Catholic Church, and she already knew what I had been searching for.
 
Good evening Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,

I know it is an ancient item of discussion but I do not understand how evil was able to enter into Judas, allowing him to betray this man he had followed, listened to, seen work miracles many times and likely had been part of many deep discussions about Christ Jesus’ deeper thoughts including the role of His Church and other Divine subjects. I realize that we are mortals and therefore more than prone to failure, especially when some kind of perceived gain is involved but this is a totally different scenario in my mind. I simply cannot wrap my mind around what possible gain could have meant more to him than the Kingdom of Heaven and what comes after this life from the lips of the Son of Almighty God. In reading the Scripture, it is like he was a disciple one day and then betrayed who he had to know was the true Son of Almighty God. I simply cannot put any context together where anyone in his position would be able to do such a thing
Welcome to CAF:thumbsup:

Please note that CAF restricts the size of post, so when multiple questions are asked & thanks for asking them:).It either restricts the reply, or may cause your post to be edited for space reasons.

Great Question.

Satan;s access to man is through our emotions. Judas was a very prideful -man… He also had created his own “god” to compete with God. MONEY! Satan’s work is often accumulative.

These factors permitted Judas to seek HIS own will; wants & desires over what Jesus taught. The “Last Supper” / Passover celebration of the Eucharist:

TAKE /EAT: THIS IS MY BODY
TAKE / DRINK: THIS IS MY BLOOD

Like the many who choose to desert Jesus because they did not seek the GRACE of right understanding [Jn 6:41-42 & 61]… applying purely human “logic” to Divine-profound events was the final straw for Judas.
The 2nd question I researched in the threads there as well before posting this but I am still having issues. I was raised as a Protestant, specifically in the Church of the Nazarene. In fact, a beloved uncle often preached there as a lay minister. I remember him speaking ill of Communion and some of the practices in the Catholic Church and he would get, not angry, but “energetic” about it to put it mildly. Yet, in the Scripture itself you read Christ Jesus’ words about the wine and the bread. Again, thinking back to talks with my uncle, with whom I was very close, I again do not understand why anyone could have a problem with something that is so plainly stated in the Scripture that even one such as myself can see the meaning and the beauty on my own. Why is this such an object of scorn and mockery?
Another GREAT Q!

The answer here is easier explained than the 1st one.

Grace; and the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit ARE each a Grace; controlled totally by God.

The 7 gifts are:
Knowledge
Counsel
Courage
Understanding
Piety
Fear [Awe] of God
Wisdom

Without the assistance of the HS, right understanding is impossible. And God [Just & Fair] commands a price for the multitudes who for a variety of reasons; SEEM satisfied with what ever differing; even contradictory to the bible and the One True Faith & Church founded by Jesus; today’s CC.

Until and unless a Soul turns to The HS actually seeking to be granted the gifts necessary to actually understand the bible. NOT being able to do so has resulted in thousands of differing faith-understandings; God LIMITS their ability to rightly understand; in the HOPE that they will take NOTE of their lack of understanding; and seek God where God desires to be found. In His : ONE GOD & ONE FAITH & ONE CHURCH
Eph.4:1-7; Mt 16:18-19; Jn 17:17-20 & Mt 28:19-20

God Bless you,

Patrick
If you accept the Scripture as the Word of God then how can you reject Holy Communion?
They PRESUME that it is We who don’t understand; no matter how precise and direct are the teachings they chose to deny.

Pray for them:signofcross:
 
With regard to Judas Iscariot, it should be remembered that the then current Jewish interpretation of Scripture, was to have a Messiah deliver Israel from their over-lording enemies, to have a leader like Moses who was going to deliver Israel to give them the freedom to be able to serve the Lord their God.

But at the the same time, I thought to myself, I can’t take Jesus Christ at his word, because I do not want to start a new religion. It was eighteen years later that I found the Catholic Church, and she already knew what I had been searching for.
Without going into detail and TMI, I was lost in a wilderness in my own mind and did not know I was lost. It is no excuse for being outside the Commandments and the Holy Scriptures and I continually pray for Forgiveness. I’m making the most of this Blessing of a second chance now that my mind is mostly whole.

And guess what I found waiting for me? The Church and the answer to every question I have ever had and perfect freedom because as long as I stay inside those Glorious guideposts, I am free to grow in Faith, knowledge and hopefully wisdom. I have my feet on the path and I ask both Almighty God and Christ Jesus for the strength to continue until I am a true member of the Church, Baptized within Her.

My thanks to you and everyone who responded. I will try to keep my posts shorter and to the point. My only excuse is that lack of sleep has begun to impact my ability to be concise. I find that my nightly prayers are leading to better sleep most of the time but sometimes the old dents and tears just have to be heard and wake me usually around 3 a.m. At least they are consistent. 🙂
 
Good evening Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,

I know it is an ancient item of discussion but I do not understand how evil was able to enter into Judas, allowing him to betray this man he had followed, listened to, seen work miracles many times and likely had been part of many deep discussions about Christ Jesus’ deeper thoughts including the role of His Church and other Divine subjects…

…Yet, in the Scripture itself you read Christ Jesus’ words about the wine and the bread. Again, thinking back to talks with my uncle, with whom I was very close, I again do not understand why anyone could have a problem with something that is so plainly stated in the Scripture that even one such as myself can see the meaning and the beauty on my own. Why is this such an object of scorn and mockery?

If you accept the Scripture as the Word of God then how can you reject Holy Communion?

One final note: I really enjoy the quote (in my signature) from the Bishop
Good evening Brother,

You may be interested in what the good Ven. Bishop Sheen had to say about Judas’ fall and the Eucharist and his eventual betrayal of Christ. When I finished reading your post he immediately came to mind as I’ve listened to just about every talk that he recorded, and many more than once.

“***The beginning of the fall of Judas ***and the end of Judas both revolved around the Eucharist. The first mention that Our Lord knew who it was who would betray him is at the end of the sixth chapter of John, which is the announcement of the Eucharist. The fall of Judas came the night Our Lord gave the Eucharist, the night of the Last Supper. The Eucharist is so essential to our oneness with Christ that as soon as Our Lord announced It in the Gospel, It began to be the test of the fidelity of His followers. First, He lost the masses, for it was too hard a saying and they no longer followed Him. Secondly, He lost some of His disciples: ‘They walked with Him no more.’ Third, it split His apostolic band, for Judas is here announced as the betrayer.”

–Treasure in Clay pg. 202: The Autobiography of Fulton J. Sheen
Always listen to Sheen and you will never go wrong.

God bless

Mike
 
Good evening Brother,

You may be interested in what the good Ven. Bishop Sheen had to say about Judas’ fall and the Eucharist and his eventual betrayal of Christ. When I finished reading your post he immediately came to mind as I’ve listened to just about every talk that he recorded, and many more than once.

“***The beginning of the fall of Judas ***and the end of Judas both revolved around the Eucharist. The first mention that Our Lord knew who it was who would betray him is at the end of the sixth chapter of John, which is the announcement of the Eucharist. The fall of Judas came the night Our Lord gave the Eucharist, the night of the Last Supper. The Eucharist is so essential to our oneness with Christ that as soon as Our Lord announced It in the Gospel, It began to be the test of the fidelity of His followers. First, He lost the masses, for it was too hard a saying and they no longer followed Him. Secondly, He lost some of His disciples: ‘They walked with Him no more.’ Third, it split His apostolic band, for Judas is here announced as the betrayer.”

–Treasure in Clay pg. 202: The Autobiography of Fulton J. Sheen
Always listen to Sheen and you will never go wrong.

God bless

Mike
Nicely done Mike,
Thanks,

Partick
 
Judas was a cafeteria catholic…took what he wanted and left the rest. 😛

The tradition for Protestantism is to oppose Catholicism. If we believe in the real presence, then they oppose that or make lite of it … but not all. The degree of severity in this is from 0 to 10.

But there is another obvious and real bottom line issue about the real presence. That is, who has the right or power to confect the real presence, certainly not just anybody can self proclaim this. So since it is not possible for them to explain this right of power to confect the Eucharist, then the conclusion from this is that it can’t be done. That is the root of the problem. So scripture is interpreted in the light of this problem … it can’t be done, so it conviently becomes a mere symbol, ignoring the line of successive power handed down from the apostles to our present day.
 
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