Luke 9:49

[Guyonthestreet]

Who was this man?

Jesus does not seem too bothered that he was not a follower with the disciples, but says leave him as those not against me are for me - can this be read as some sort of approval for various christian denominations?

Clearly the disciples dont know the guy, yet he is performing miracles in Christ’s name - so Christ knows him !!!

If the Catholic Church stems from the disciples, then this guy wasnt one of them, clearly, but Christ endorses him.

Am I reading this completely wrong - your thoughts much appreciated.

 

[diggerdomer]

Who was this man?

Jesus does not seem too bothered that he was not a follower with the disciples, but says leave him as those not against me are for me - can this be read as some sort of approval for various christian denominations?

Clearly the disciples dont know the guy, yet he is performing miracles in Christ’s name - so Christ knows him !!!

If the Catholic Church stems from the disciples, then this guy wasnt one of them, clearly, but Christ endorses him.

Am I reading this completely wrong - your thoughts much appreciated.

We don’t know who he was.

I think the message is don’t worry about what so-and-so is doing if it’s not contradicting Christ, trust that God will take care of things, keep your focus on following Christ.

 

[Todd_Easton]

A Commentary on the New Testament, published by The Catholic Biblical Association in 1942, on page 216, commenting on the parallel passage in Mark 9:37-39, says in part:
37. … A man who was not one of our followers: i.e., not one of our group; but this man clearly believed in Jesus, for he would not have succeeded in driving out the devils in His name unless he believed in Him (cf. Acts 19:13-16). 38. Christ rebukes John for his intolerance. Even though this man did not belong to the “group,” he cannot be opposed to Christ if he has such good dispositions; and every one who in such or similar circumstances is not opposed to Christ is really for Him. This lesson given to John has permanent value for us also; we must be intolerant of error but tolerant of those who in good faith are outside the body of the Church: in as far as they do good work, we should encourage rather than hinder them.

 

[Crumpy]

If your bible has cross references, you can check the OT version of this incident. The lesson here is the same as the lesson back then; it is religious history repeating itself.

I just read Dr. Mary Healy’s comment on the parallel verses in Mark, in her “The Gospel of Mark” which is an excellent read, but I don’t recall what her remarks are. I’ll get back to you.

At some level of the discussion, we are all called to evangelize the world, and so it is not surprising, but reassuring, that everyone is doing their part for the kingdom.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

A Commentary on the New Testament, published by The Catholic Biblical Association in 1942, on page 216, commenting on the parallel passage in Mark 9:37-39, says in part:
37. … A man who was not one of our followers: i.e., not one of our group; but this man clearly believed in Jesus, for he would not have succeeded in driving out the devils in His name unless he believed in Him (cf. Acts 19:13-16). 38. Christ rebukes John for his intolerance. Even though this man did not belong to the “group,” he cannot be opposed to Christ if he has such good dispositions; and every one who in such or similar circumstances is not opposed to Christ is really for Him. This lesson given to John has permanent value for us also; we must be intolerant of error but tolerant of those who in good faith are outside the body of the Church: in as far as they do good work, we should encourage rather than hinder them.

That’s interesting. So if the disciples did not know him and he wasn’t in their group, could this be an example of very early division in the church. This man believed clearly believed in Jesus, and performed miracles in his name, but as he was not known to the followers of Jesus, perhaps he was not in full communion with them. Is Jesus saying therefor there will be ‘‘other’’ christians, who’s role and authority is no less valid than the disciples?

 

[Todd_Easton]

The following excerpts from the Catechism of the Catholic Church seem to apply to your question:
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities (that resulted from such separation) and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers… All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace, faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
…
838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” …

 

[PeterK]

To be clear, this passage does not place Christian denominations outside of the Church on an equal footing with the Church.

So if the disciples did not know him and he wasn’t in their group, could this be an example of very early division in the church.

No. To be able to divide, something must first be whole or one. That individual was never part of the ‘official’ hand picked following. So he could hardly have broken away or divided off.

IMHO, Christ is telling his disciples, in part, to not hold their privileged authoritative position as some kind of Holy Spirit brokerage firm. They will see the Spirit working in wondrous and unpredictable ways - like the individual. This does not diminish their role or authority.

Hope this helped,

Peterk

 

[Peter_Dawson]

Who was this man?

Jesus does not seem too bothered that he was not a follower with the disciples, but says leave him as those not against me are for me - can this be read as some sort of approval for various christian denominations?

Clearly the disciples dont know the guy, yet he is performing miracles in Christ’s name - so Christ knows him !!!

If the Catholic Church stems from the disciples, then this guy wasnt one of them, clearly, but Christ endorses him.

Am I reading this completely wrong - your thoughts much appreciated.

In fact, it is the doctrine of the Church that non-Catholic Christians are only “in the dark” – inspired, but partially in error.

 

[PJM]

=Guyonthestreet;5651372]Who was this man?

Jesus does not seem too bothered that he was not a follower with the disciples, but says leave him as those not against me are for me - can this be read as some sort of approval for various christian denominations?

Clearly the disciples dont know the guy, yet he is performing miracles in Christ’s name - so Christ knows him !!!

If the Catholic Church stems from the disciples, then this guy wasnt one of them, clearly, but Christ endorses him.

Am I reading this completely wrong - your thoughts much appreciated.

***Actually I am in agreement with you, that Christ was aware of the eventual entry of competing religions, not as blessed as our Catholic Faith, but nevertheless serving as best they can our Loed and Savior.

Here is the Haydock’s Catholic Commentary on vs, 49, 50: "Ver. 49. We forbade him. St. John having the most love for his Lord, and being particularly beloved by him, thought all were to be excluded from these gifts, who were not obedient to his divine Master. (St. Augustine) — But we must remember, that not the minister is the author of these miracles, but the grace which is in him, who performs these wonders by virtue of the power of Christ. (St. Cyril) — How wonderful is the power of Christ, who by his grace works miracles in the persons of the unworthy*, and those that are not disciples; as men are sanctified by the priest, though the priest should not be in the state of grace! (Theophylactus)

Ver. 50. Forbid him not. Our Lord is not moved by this event, to teach us that perfect virtue entertains no thoughts of revenge, and that anger cannot be found where the fulness of charity reigns. The weak must not be driven away, but assisted. Let the breast of the religious man be ever unmoved by passion, and the mind of the generous undisturbed by desires of revenge. (St. Ambrose)
**

While I struggle greatly with the hardiness and lack of willingness to be open to the entire Bible with humility, I nevertheless am awed by Dr. James Dobson and The Grahams, and how much good they have done for Christ.

I suspect it is because these folks too are working in, with and through our Blessed Lord Jesus, and not eying on human effort and results?

**I find myself reading and rereading Isaiah 55: 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts", knowing full well Protestants are not alone in the need for humility:thumbsup: **

Love and prayers,